Why In The World Buy A Promo Boat?

[lhoover]

The following is a true story, based on actual events. All of the innocent and most of the guilty shall remain nameless, but the whole darned thing still chaps my butt.

 

Some tourney skiing friends formed a partnership 2 years back and decided on a particular brand of boat to purchase. They began a nationwide search based upon their budget, but were inclined to and limiting their wants to buying a promo, if at all possible. Indeed, wasn't that what they had always been told in order to keep the 3 event sport alive and kicking? Tis their duty, don't you know, to support the sport.

 

We have all heard the 54 reasons why purchasing promos are best for the sport, including it's already dialed in, keeps newer boats at tourneys, protects used boat prices, fewer hours, blah blah blah. So they passed on some "real deals" and purposely bought a promo. This particular one was older, had more hours, not a favorite color, and was more expensive than several used ones at that particular time. No problem. Did I mention they were supporting the sport and happy to do so?

 

The boat was a 2012, so mind you, that boat had taken 3 years to sell. But all parties were ecstatic and just think, 3 event skiing has been saved! They have done their duty and all is well.

 

At less than 600 hours and only 2 years later, this boat must have a new transmission just shy of $4,000.

 

So the only person who got to enjoy the warranty was the promo owner? Nothing wrong with their being protected, for sure, but why in the world should not the folks who are declining less expensive, newer, (sometimes) fewer hours boats by purposely purchasing promos not enjoy a new boat warranty? I know they used to as I was a promo owner back in the 70s, and I handed the new buyer the keys AND a brand new warranty. When did that kind of incentive stop? And why?

 

Well, you might say, none of the companies do that so that is just the way it is. Fine, and next time this partnership purchases a boat, their search will certainly not be limited to promos. Understood, it could happen to anyone, but certainly leaves a sour taste knowing they were trying to do the right thing for our sport.

 

Screw that. It's open season.

[jhughes]

I don't really understand this rant but I hope it makes you feel better, I guess. You bought an old boat with high hours that you didn't want and paid too much for purely on principle? And the complaint is that now in some unrelated turn of events you have a repair on the boat after the warranty has run out that you feel you shouldn't have to pay for 5 years after the boat was manufactured?

 

I think the idea of buying a promo boat is to buy a current year boat and a substantial discount over new and end up with the balance of the warranty. Buying a 3 year old promo boat seems like the "promo" part has kinda sailed at that point.

[lhoover]

Good point, jhughes, but the beef was the "buy promo philosophy" was dominant in their thinking and for what good reason? What is the incentive? As stated, the incentive back in the old days was a new boat warranty.

 

And to continue the rant, if I might, the new transmission comes with the outstanding warranty of 30 days. I said thirty days!! What in the world is up with that ?!?!?!

[BrennanKMN]

This rant rings a little hallow with me. Just because a boat is a promo boat doesn't mean it will be amazing and flawless. Regardless of the boat your are purchasing you need to do your due diligence. Maybe a multiyear old higher hour promo boat wasn't the best choice if you wanted a warranty?

 

The buy promo philosophy carries a lot more weight when you get a current year promo. (The vast majority of promos) Not a 3+ year old promo.

 

[bigskieridaho]

A boat that is 3 years old essentially is not a promo boat...... current year or maybe just a year old at that. I am in the market for a used boat, and it's like me buying a boat because it once was a promo, or says factory team on the side, or on the swim deck... a used boat is a used boat and hole in the water we throw out money into, but we all love them! Sorry you had bad luck brother, but even $4K for a transmission all goes away once the enjoyment takes over!

[Andre]

Why the transmission can t be repair or rebuild ?

Should be less then 4k...

[ski6jones]

I'm not gonna lie I'd be pretty unhappy if a 3 year old boat needed a new trans, in or out of warranty. That assumes it was well taken care of for the three years.

[The_MS]

My guess is that the boat is a 200. I have heard of a few boats needing new trannys within the warranty period.

[Horton]

@lhoover I have to say it sounds like you and your friends misunderstand the concept of promo boats. If they could have gotten a better boat for less they should have.

 

Sounds like your friends overpaid for a boat they did not like and that was out of warrantee. This has NOTHING to do with a promo program. A 2012 is no longer a promo boat.

 

I wonder if the seller put a bunch of cash in pocket and laughed all the way to he bank.

 

[Wish]

I purchased a pro skiers promo boat. It had never been registered. As far as public records are concerned I am the original owner. Had less then 300 hrs. It was pristine. But it was 6yrs old when purchased. I was under no delusion that it was in any way shape or form a promo boat even though technically I guess it was. It was just a really nice lightly used boat.

[baja]

Well if maybe 90% of people are happy with a promo boat purchase then some unlucky 10% must be unhappy. You definitely fill that quota and it seems like it's not even your boat, sorry man. My promo purchase was a 2007 Malibu right after Nationals in Bakersfield in Sept 2007. Had about 200 hours, now has over 900.

[mlange]

I've bought two promos and in both cases the warranty started the day I bought it. I thought all promo boats were like that. Either I'm wrong or this wasn't a promo boat.

 

Is the whole promo/warranty thing specific to the manufacturer? Region you're in?

 

[The_MS]

All of my cc promo boats that I sold had a transferable warranty that involved a fee to transfer.

[lakeaustinskier]

In my opinion a promo boat is a 1 year old boat that has been meticulously maintained by an owner that has an incentive to maintain their reputation since they have to sell a boat every year.

 

Any other description is..........a used boat.

 

Over the years I've purchased two promo boats including my current boat - 2015 CC 200 6 litre purchased from @skiinxs. Never had any trouble.

 

[Horton]

@lhoover I sort of feel bad that everybody's saying your friends got hosed. Not trying to beat up on you at all I swear.

[gregy]

Most newer used boats on the market are or were promo boats. I've been looking for a ZO boat and that's what I'm noticing. Its been many years since I was a promo member but I had set myself up as a boat dealer so I didn't register or pay sells tax. If memory serves me right the warranty started when I sold them.

[thompjs]

When Malibu was with Indmar, the 3yr warranty started when promo guy bought it.

 

[JackQ]

4 of my last 6 boat have been promo's. Never an issue with any of them. If I recall the "new boat" warrantee transfers to the purchaser who is essentially the original owner for warrantee purposes. There is a nominal fee for said transfer. A five year old 600 hr hour boat is not a promo, but a used boat that was originally a promo boat that did not sell.

[bigtex2011]

On our current Malibu promo the warranty starts when we receive it. It can be transferred for a small fee.

[Kelvin]

Yep, the early 200s had some transmission issues. I bought a 1 year old ski school boat with 400 hours on it. Between the time I made the deal and picked up the boat, the transmission went out. Despite the language in the warranties that commercial use is not covered, PCM did cover the warranty on that boat for the ski school. Not sure I would have been as fortunate if my timing had been 2 weeks earlier. The new transmission now has over 600 hours and is still going strong.

[RichardDoane]

find a good rebuilder and fix the transmission, but why would anyone pay too much for a color scheme you didn't like ? How is that "saving our sport" ? Just a couple of poor decisions IMO

[ForrestGump]

About the only time that a promo boat would have a new warranty would be if the dealer kept it on their floor plan and never really transferred it to the Promo owner. Otherwise, at least for the last 5-6 years the warranty started when the Promo owner took delivery and there was a transfer fee for the balance of the warranty. For Correct Craft, the transfer fee was $100 I think. Others were different.

 

Is it reasonable to think that a mfr should eat 3 years of warranty to a promo owner and then another new warranty to whomever bought it? The boat was in service. After 3 years, that promo boat was just a used boat.

[Broussard]

@ski6jones Current model is 2017, that boat is now 5 years old.

[ski6jones]

@Broussard, not sure that changes my position much. My current well cared for boat is 23 years old, original transmission and still solid. 5 years seems subpar. I get that it's out of warranty and the manufacturer has no obligation to fix it but I'd still be pretty disappointed.

[AkBob]

Regardless of the promo vs used discussion.... a 600 hr transmission failure seems way premature on a 2012 boat. If there was a history of issues with a particular transmission, I would hope the manufacturer would at least share in the repair or replacement cost. I've been around a lot of promo boats and the program participants seem to take special care of their boats... I strongly doubt abuse was a factor in this failure

[B_S]

Was it only 600 hours? I can't tell from the original post if that is total hours, or what they put on it in the 2 years after purchase.

[RichardDoane]

transmissions can take a lot of abuse, usually driver's going into reverse when skiers do not pull out hard enough, I'd want to know how often the fluid was changed, we do ours with every engine oil/filter interval

[brody]

We have a 2013 200 with about 600 hrs, strictly a private lake boat, transmission went on it

[AkBob]

Sounds like PCM used a weak transmission for awhile?? What transmission model and what years should one be wary about. Three posts on this thread speak to an early tranny failure. These boats cost an awful lot for these kind of major reliability issue IMO

[jpwhit]

Earlier 200s have a PCM 40A transmission. I'm not sure of the exact date of switch over, I'm thinking 2012 or 2013, but the current transmission is the 80A.

 

Also, nobody has mentioned a fairly common cause of transmission failure... Shaft Misalignment. If you don't check and keep your shaft alignment in spec, the side load on the rear transmission seal will cause it to leak. Then what typically happens is the fluid gets low, the transmission pump starts sucking air, and gets damaged. Once the pump is damaged, the fluid pressure is low and you start to get slippage. Once you get any slippage, it's all over for the transmission clutch pack.

 

We lost a transmission on our club boat due to this at around 700 hours. When we changed it, it was very clear the shaft alignment was way off. What happened in our case is engine vibration loosened up the jam nuts on the front engine mounts. They dropped over time and cause the misalignment. Live and learn, we now do a shaft alignment as part of our yearly maintenance. And I'm pretty sure that's is a recommended yearly maintenance item from Nautique.

[BrennanKMN]

@RichardDoane Drivers really use reverse for that?

If I have a skier not pull out hard enough I'll just pull the handle out of their hands. No way I am using reverse like that. I'll drive back around to you.

[MISkier]

I'll pace the skier as best I can and try and settle with them (without reversing). If that means we are both short on acceleration room for the next pass, then that will be the learning experience for the skier.

[AkBob]

@jpwhit most informative post. What you say about alignment makes perfect sense

 

Did you notice transmission fluid in the bilge or a change in fluid level.

I also wonder what prompted CC to change transmission models. I know of many 196's and prior with high hours and no transmission issues. Perhaps the new hull has something to do with alignment stability?? I know higher RPMs a needed to push that bigger hull to tournament speeds

 

 

 

 

[slow]

You bought a three year old used boat. Quit complaining

[jpwhit]

@AkBob we did not notice any transmission fluid in the bilge, which puzzled us when we did notice the level was low on the dipstick. Unfortunately, the level dropped quickly enough once the seal started leaking that we didn't catch it soon enough to prevent the damage. Once we realized we were losing fluid, we checked it often and kept it topped up until it finally failed.

 

We discovered the reason for the lack of fluid in the bilge when we changed the transmission. When the rear seal goes, the fluid leaks out into the center of the coupler between the transmission and the shaft. The fluid then exits through the joint between the coupler halves...so around the perimeter of the coupler. The floor carpet on the removable rear deck wraps around with a fair amount of carpet on the backside. In our case, and I expect it's this way on many boats, that carpet had sagged just slightly enough that it was very lightly touching the perimeter of the coupler. The carpet on the backside of the rear deck soaked up and retained all the leaking fluid. It was quite saturated by the time we fixed the problem.

 

I don't think, based on what I know, I'd be comfortable claiming the 40A is a poorly designed transmission. As you point out, I think it's been around a while. I think everyone is aware that the 200 hull needs more power, but I don't have enough data on failure rates of 40A in the 200 hull to be comfortable promoting the conclusion the 40A is inadequate in the 200 hull. Others on the forum, may have more insight. But I will say the 80A is clearly a much beefier design when you compare them side by side.

[AkBob]

@jpwhit. Thanks again for posting your experience. For those of us sniffing around for an older 200, we need to be aware of these issues. I have an older Nautique, and I haven't been religious on checking alignment. My fluid levels are fine, I will be more vigilant based on your input regarding alignment

[Jody_Seal]

The series 40 transmission has been in the pcm production from 1989 to around 2013. Can't say that the failure rate was any different from earlier models then the 200. Have seen that transmission get brutalized and never serviced with out of alignment conditions and run over 2500 hours with little or no problems. Have also seen that transmission fail at less then 50 hours with a perfectly aligned condition. Again that transmission has a very good reliability record . I personally have now owned better then 10 Nautiques in the last 25 years and never had a problem with my transmission. Yet I know of a boat that has had 3 series 40 units replaced in 10 years of service. Like anything designed and built by man, it will fail sooner or later.

Some have bad luck and own a computer the modern day communication can throw a dark light on really a high percentage sitiation.. kinda like CNN !