Baller escmanaze Posted April 9, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 9, 2017 The way I've understood it is that guys who barefoot want to do so behind a tower for the higher tow point. Am I wrong saying that? Assuming I'm not wrong, then are barefooters extinct? Where have they all gone? Looking through ski-it-again and boattrader, I see VERY few 200s and Prostars with Towers. TXIs have a little higher percentage because of the obvious wedge advantage as a crossover boat into wake sports (which is why I'm into towers, for the wake sports and the place to store the wake boards) but I guess I would expect to see more 200s and prostars with towers if there are still a reasonable number of footers in existence who prefer a tower tow point. What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted April 9, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 9, 2017 The new boats can barely get out of their own way at ski speeds, the local barefooters I see are using older boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted April 9, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 9, 2017 Yep, footers use footing boats. Outboard Malibu Flightcrafts, outboard Sangers and inboard Sangers...and yes towers or a fly high pole are a plus. The speed and as much so the wake are important for footers. Our inboards today are not necessarily designed to throw a proper barefoot wake. The towers you will see on any newer inboards are not likely barefoot specific but trying to please the wake-boarders in the family, or simply getting the rope up high and thus being able to use the back seat for recreational towed stuff without back seaters getting ropes across the neck...useful just about anything other than real slalom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted April 9, 2017 Baller_ Share Posted April 9, 2017 Just like barefoot boom raised up with handle is easier to foot off of do to higher pull point, so is long line behind the boat with higher pull point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burdhntr Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 My MC 197 (2003 with the Cadillac 6.0) does great for footin. I just have the mini tower for longline and its more than adequate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted April 9, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 9, 2017 @burdhntr buddy had that same boat, same engine, same tower worked great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Andy Posted April 10, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 10, 2017 My 89 BFN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller LoopSki Posted April 10, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 10, 2017 Sanger will still make the DXII. I met Scott Pellaton at the boat show and talked about it for a bit. It's not dead , just think it's like slalom. Hidden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller escmanaze Posted April 10, 2017 Author Baller Share Posted April 10, 2017 Hmmmm...interesting. Sounds like barefooting is a cautionary tale for slalom. Sport has gone so small that only one manufacturer even kind of still makes the type of boat the folks are looking for. Wow. So then I think my comments about barefooting being extinct are actually not all that far off. From a boat manufacturers perspective, it is indeed, just a hidden sanger model away from being completely extinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller keithh2oskier Posted April 10, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 10, 2017 Was barefooting ever the size of slalom though @escmanaze? I have spent my fair amount of time at private and public waterways and it seems footin has always been a very VERY small percentage of the towed watersports. Like sub 1% of all the slalom skiers I know/met did any barefooting on a semi-regular basis in the last 20 years. I bet its well under 1%... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted April 10, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 10, 2017 Dunno, every time we stay on public water there are always a few bare footers out at sunrise and sunset. Seem to be plenty out there. But some folks don't realize that better than 50% of comp boats never see a course. ( at least around here). Most of the ones I see are long line off early 2000 comp boats back when you could hit 40 in a reasonable distance without a 10k engine upgrade, rarely an OB and the only hydrostreams I see belong to a local ski club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted April 10, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 10, 2017 @keithh2oskier agree...though back in the heyday of water skiing and the pro-tour...footing got a lot more press as well. Banana George, Mike Seipel, Ron Scarpa. The first Ski Centurion Warrior Barefoot Comp, the outboard Flightcraft, the outboard Sanger, the inboard Sanger, the Barefoot Nautique, the Mastercraft Barefoot 200, the Ski-pro I/O with counter-rotating prop volvo power. True it's always been a small piece of the pie but the pie used to be bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ralph Lee Posted April 11, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 11, 2017 A lack of real men in the world today equals less everything manly. Including barefooting and slalom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller UWSkier Posted April 11, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 11, 2017 Barefooters are definitely not extinct. At least not in Wisconsin. We see them all the time when we're out for early morning sets. They like us and we like them. Both go in straight lines and often share a common boat path making the smallest wakes possible. As Chuck said, none of the newer slalom plows are good barefoot boats when compared with the likes of the Sangers, pre Cut Diamond SV23 Malibus, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bigskieridaho Posted April 11, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 11, 2017 Bare footing=fun........and Advil:) small sport, but I see footers at the lake we go to as well. Any 40+ MPH boat will do just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Intheday Posted April 11, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 11, 2017 Quite a few open water barefooters, but fewer competitors and very few who compete in both "three event/slalom tournament" and barefoot. the ratio of barefooters to tournament skiers is I think is less than 10% and less than 1% who compete in both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GregHind Posted April 11, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 11, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted April 11, 2017 Baller_ Share Posted April 11, 2017 Still showing barefoot skiers at Lego Land FL (Formerly Cyprus Gardens). We were just there watching from our boat. They still get the biggest applause. And they were toed by a Wakeboard Nautique. Not sure which model (seemed small but engine in the back. And the guy started long line backwards and made a crazy sharp turn in rough condition. He has his man card for sure. There are 2 sets of bleachers. The other set, same size is where the show takes place...it was full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burdhntr Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Definitely not dead. With the cost of boats these days, people are buying for wake/surf and slalom. You can easily use a slalom boat for barefooting. But to spend another $60,000 on a new "barefoot boat?!" Yeah. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ DW Posted April 11, 2017 Baller_ Share Posted April 11, 2017 @escmanaze : I use a pylon for barefooting behind my boat, not much side pull so pylon works great and it gets stored away so no tower to deal with (personal preference not to have a tower for a variety of reasons). I do like the additional height for tumble turns & surface hops while footing. It is a bummer that only one manufacturer produces the boat of choice for footing these days. Commenting on footing's popularity or perhaps lack of in today's world, the one comment I hear quite a bit "I love surfing, it is so much easier on the body", and that is in reference to both footing and skiing. I thought that is what Advil was for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller UWSkier Posted April 11, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 11, 2017 Footstock is held about 5 miles from my lake every year. Not uncommon to see the world's best out on our lake for tune-ups in the run-up to the tourney. Those guys do annoy me though, with their figure-eight driving pattern... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller escmanaze Posted April 11, 2017 Author Baller Share Posted April 11, 2017 @UWskier so what boats are most common when the best in the world show up? Is everybody on a new sanger DXII or are the best footers in the world riding behind 20 year old boats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller escmanaze Posted April 11, 2017 Author Baller Share Posted April 11, 2017 @burdhntr "you can easily use a slalom boat for barefooting" Those were my thoughts exactly, which is why I would have expected to see a ton more 200s out there where the guy is primarily a skier, so he buys a 200, but he also wants to barefoot, so he puts the 6.0 engine on it so that it can go 45 no problem with the gate up, and then puts the tower on it to get a higher tow point. I thought because of this, it would be really easy to find tons of 200s with big engines (that I need for elevation) and towers (that I need for wakeboarding and wakeskating) to be purchased from the guy who is hardcore slalom, but does barefoot as his chick on the side. However, I'm getting the message from most of these posts that I have totally misunderstood the footer demographic and that is why I'm not seeing the boats on the used market that I would have expected to see. Crazy that I knew so little about barefooters and who they are etc. I guess it makes sense though, as I have spent a lot of time on Utah lakes and the only person I've ever seen behind a boat without sticks is myself. I've literally never met "a barefooter" so I suppose that's probably why I don't understand their demographic very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GregHind Posted April 11, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 11, 2017 Barefoot boats these days also must have a boom. I've been told the chine spray off a 200 is terrible for footing. You can barefoot behind the current slalom sleds but they are as good for it as they are for wake boarding. Can be done but just not the tool for the job. I think there is a market for a modernised barefoot boat. Ideally that was really good for slalom and surf too. It wasn't long ago that there was no development left in slalom boats now look at them all. The old barefoot boats were really good and there was no reason offered to replace them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted April 11, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 11, 2017 @Wish That guy footing behind what appears to be a 210, is also proof that one doesn't need to go warp speed to barefoot. Still an image I never thought I'd see though! I'm glad they still have a ski show. Taking my family to Disney for Christmas, so hopefully the show is going on at the time. Steve Merritt taught me the proper speed to foot is body weight divided by 10, then add 20mph (with proper technique). Crashes aren't quite as brutal at 35mph for me, although I haven't "wasted" good water on footing in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller escmanaze Posted April 11, 2017 Author Baller Share Posted April 11, 2017 @scotchipman Well then I guess I have met a barefooter before. You're right, Kevin has that super classic foot boat in his shop all the time. However, whenever I try to get him to talk about skiing, the club, the glory days etc. he seems pretty reluctant to go there, so I've never really gotten much out of him along those lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller wtrskior Posted April 12, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 12, 2017 If you are a slalomer and a footer The response lxr would be a great option. Not as great a table as the old response or the sporty but a very nice boat for all 3 disciplines. I see a guy footing from a 200 boom often. Spray doesn't seem to bother him but he's fairly novice. I haven't gone barefoot into in a few years, but for many years when I was younger it's all I wanted to do. Lack of a well protected slalom course on a large public lake with many coves meant finding good footing water was usually easier. The flightcrafts are still very popular for footers. All composite construction on later models- if maintained well, should last many years. Easy to throw a new 200 on one, not cheap though... new Motor worth way more than the hull now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Zman Posted April 12, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 12, 2017 Wow, such pickiness for barefoot boats. Guess we are a bit the same for slalom these days. Many of us started footing behind whatever we could tie a rope to. I learned behind a 4 cylinder Mercruiser I/O, 170 HP, 18 foot OB pleasure boat. Had to butt ride quite a while until it almost reached max speed of 36. At 160 to 170 that was plenty. One foots were a little harder, but still doable. @swc5150 Took 4 or 5 days of lessons from Steve Merritt back in the early 80's in Lantana. He taught me the back deeps and a few other moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted April 12, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 12, 2017 Passionate footers care just as much about boat performance and wake as we ballers care about slalom wake..but it's different. Who runs deep shortline on a Sanger DXII? It's not that you can't they track like monsters and the barefoot specific wake is the bomb...but the slalom wake is small and hard...not ideal. Who among the tourney barefoot crowd runs just any boat that runs 40 plus? Nautique??? Love 'em for slalom but barefoot wake is not great. For recreational footers no big deal...go 40, step off or deep start, do some tumble-turns n one foots and if the wake is not ideal no biggie. For the tourney/competitive footing crowd they want more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Fam-man Posted April 12, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 12, 2017 We barefoot with my brother in laws G21. Bought it specifically with the big motor so it would do 40. The wake crossing involves a bit of a step up but it's doable. As mentioned by others, all about fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted April 12, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 12, 2017 @Zman Steve's a great guy and teacher. I was actually good friend's with his brother Scott in my youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bananaron Posted April 12, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 12, 2017 I am an old guy now soon to be 70 and still enjoy footin.I now mostly foot off the boom however when I first learned as a young kid we really enjoyed long line behind the boat.The best boats are really the big outboards 200HP mercs on hydrostreams or the ski centurion barefoot boat.Those were the days........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller UWSkier Posted April 12, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 12, 2017 @escmanaze IIRC the footstock towboats last year were a pair of 20 year old SV23 Malibus. One was a 1997 Corvette with the Callaway 383, the other a late 90s Echelon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jjackkrash Posted April 12, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 12, 2017 I loved to slalom/jump behind a barefoot sanger with a 200 yamaha. The only problem was edge-change timing in slalom because there was almost no tactile feel from the wake to give you the edge-change cue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller UWSkier Posted April 12, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 12, 2017 A number of years ago, they tried pulling the event with a 196 with an upgraded engine (not sure if it was a 6.0L). The skiers hated it. It wasn't fast enough, especially in the turns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted April 12, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 12, 2017 Outboards back in the day when I skied footstock. Brutal double-elim event. I lost to Peter Fleck and Jimmy Aberlee in my best year...they finished first and third. In one round big set of rollers coming so my competitor and I hunkered down. I took a driller so hard the rope broke...I came up with the handle still in my hands. The other dude swims over quickly and is like "Hey are you ok?" and I'm like "That depends...did I win the round?" He confirmed I went further than he did and I said "That's good...cuz otherwise we'd need a re-ride...I've still got the handle!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller UWSkier Posted April 12, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 12, 2017 Fleck is a machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ALPJr Posted April 13, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2017 I was looking forward to seeing that boat too. @gman ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted April 13, 2017 Baller_ Share Posted April 13, 2017 Pick this up for 2K, remove motor box, plug the shaft hole, add a "jack plate" (if that is the right term) and slap on a 2-4K used 200hp. Barefoot awesome for less then 7K. That is really all they did. Even the platform seems to still be there. It would be a beast and track like no other outboard ski boat...EVER! https://goo.gl/n7pjVQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller fox197 Posted April 14, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 14, 2017 We use my 2013 197 with 6.0l to foot. It has the mini tower and is perfect, has towed 3 footers at 64kmh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller spud Posted April 14, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 14, 2017 deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller spud Posted April 14, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 14, 2017 deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller spud Posted April 14, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 14, 2017 The new Flightcraft barefooter will come a tower ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller spud Posted April 14, 2017 Baller Share Posted April 14, 2017 The new Flightcraft barefooter will com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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