Pending new world record

[liquid d]

Chris is healthy again, and skiing fantastic. I believe he is still able to get to the world record. Willy needs a little more speed, and may have to shave.

[slow]

CP is great but Nate is in a league of his own and I have never heard CP acknowledge it. Nate performs well in big tournaments and record events regardless of conditions and his humble while doing it. Awesome!

[gregy]

CP looks pretty dialed in with the AM ski. Freddie is getting a lot of 41s but not making much progress at 43. Will Asher can throw down a 41. Cory Vaughn. Nate's definitely push the limit on what is considered possible. There is a post by Mapple on BOS where he says 43 will be run someday, what did he know?

[Ilivetoski]

It really seems its the same podium at every tournament. 1st- Nate, 2nd- Will/Freddie 3rd- Parrish. Theres a little mix up every now and then but for the most part from what I have noticed every tournament seems be to be about the same

[RazorRoss3]

I think that's an effect of a relatively small sport. There's been more than once in history when 2-3 people have owned every podium.

[DmaxJC_ski]

Without sounding overly Canadian, Nate is literally the Wayne Gretzky of waterskiing no doubt About it!! CP is on his game too, after the layoff he had he's skiing exceptional.

[UWSkier]

Does Nate still run a ski that's oversized vs what the conventional wisdom says he should be riding? Seem to recall he was on a ski that was "too big for him" a couple years ago.

[Edbrazil]

Agreed that he's great, but it's a bit early to call him greatest of all time. Consider Andy,

the LaPoints, and even Warren Witherell. Hmmm...how would Nate do riding a squareback

SL ski!?

Time will tell. At one time, Tiger Woods looked like a certainty to win the most pro golf

tournaments, especially the most majors. Oops.

[bigskieridaho]

Nate is crazy! I want to be like when I grow up.

[303Skier]

 

 

[ski6jones]

Finals were 24 tournament sets run by 8 different guys. 41 off completed 3 times, all by the same guy. Nate seems pretty unique on that day to me.

[MattP]

@rico I would not say he is light on the line at all. He manages his speed though the course and rope control better than anyone else.

[Than_Bogan]

It's pretty damn cool that fans want to debate who is the greatest and who's in what "class" and so forth.

 

It's almost like a popular sport...

 

But it's remarkable how many of you folks have clearly wrong opinions! :)

 

[Stevie Boy]

A very good skier, once told me it,s what you create off the ball into the back of the boat, the rest is automatic, this skier has won the big dawg final, so clearly knows what it is about, he also is very good technically when skiing.

[Booze]

@Stevie Boy - 'into the back of the boat'? What does that mean?

 

[Stevie Boy]

@Booze Ok you got me, did I mean center line ?

[RazorRoss3]

I would bet he is actually loading the line incredibly hard, but he keeps his upper body quiet and his handle under control so he is able to control that load, control his speed, and control his direction in a way the rest of us cannot. He bends way more handles than I do which means the load is through the roof, it a matter of how, when, and controlling it that he does better than the rest of the field. That makes him look light on the line.

[Wish]

More ski less drag/load more overall speed through course. If it still turns, ride it.

[RazorRoss3]

Yeah, I think Mapple's rule was "if you can turn the ski then the ski isn't too long"

[ski6jones]

Or ride the biggest ski you can turn.

[bishop8950]

Height matters for ski size as well.

 

If you are not comfortable saying he is in a class alone maybe go with "he is the guy to beat". Can't be much dispute in that.

 

I hope the record counts, awesome skiing.

[So_I_Ski]

@rico & @RazorRoss3, I find it odd that discussions about how Nate's superiority never seems to include how he completes his turn. Whether he is actually "light" on the line or not and how he controls his speed or load and when are virtually impossible to determine.

 

One thing that is clearly evident when you watch the completion of his onside turn though is how much he manages to roll the ski on edge relative to how high his shoulders remain off the water at completion. As a result of the roll, he establishes more angle and quicker which results in less slack or a tigher line sooner while having more control because his upper body remains furthest off the water relative to other skiers. More angle, if only a degree or two plus a quicker connection to a tight line equals earlier acceleration which puts him earlier into his offside than everyone else. That's what I see for what it's worth.

 

When Mike Suyderhoud coached us a couple years ago he mentioned something that stuck with me. He said that the skier who accelerates the soonest coming off the ball has the most advantage just like a drag racer. It's not the top end speed at the end of the quarter mile that matters, it's the quickest off the line. I believe that Nate is quickest off the line.

[RazorRoss3]

No argument from me here, he manages to stay on top of his ski and tall while at the same time setting the ski on a great arc. In my personal skiing I've found that in order to be on top of my ski and tall coming into the turn I need to execute correctly in the pull though, otherwise the trajectory is off and I'm not set up to turn correctly.

[thompjs]

iwsf page says record application has been made.

[Booze]

@Stevie Boy - Yeah that makes sense now.

 

I was lucky enough to ski with Nate in 2015. He had numerous things to advise me on, but I only remember one thing that stuck. He said he focuses on loading the rope on a scale of 1 to 4 from one side to another. So finish the turn with load at 1, progressively build to 4 at centerline, then progressively back down to 1 (paraphrasing).

That makes sense. But to me it raises some esoteric line tension/edge change/body control questions. I don't think any elite skier changes edges more early and distinctly than Nate. So how does he (or you) maintain tension on the line past centerline if you are moving the ski outside the handle? (and thereby going flat or changing edge)

 

I've worked on trying to reproduce the moves I feel necessary to do this...keeping outside shoulder down, elbows in, while rolling the ski out under me. It works well when I do it right (I think). The ski swings out wide and swings back in nicely with a low-drama finish at the buoy. It's hard for me to reproduce at will though.

 

Another question is, do the best practice rules change at 41off @36 for a 160lb youngster, compared to a 35/38/(39?)off 34mph guy like myself? e.g. Is it easier or more difficult to create and maintain an outward or cross-course vector dependent on boat speed or skier size?

[Wish]

@Booze loading the rope past CL may be misunderstood..perhaps not meant in pounds but intensity. What Nate and others like him do so well is to NOT load the ski (putting ski on edge between skier and boat) after centerline. You can continue to load the rope as much as you like, or can (there won't be much in poundage) using intensity from 4-1 but that load will be far far less then the load on the rope before centerline do to the load on the ski. But if you think in terms of intensity to keep JUST the line loaded at a 4 to 1 past CL, it will keep you heading outbound, keeps the handle longer and will bring the handle along it's natural path (aka some mention all this as handle control). If you cross the wake, and go straight to a 1 of intensity, you will loose outbound and will no longer be bringing the handle path on it's full rotational path. Since the ski is transitioning from a loaded edge to the other, there will be some natural progression of rope load from 4-1 in pounds just way less then before CL. So maybe he is speaking of intensity and not so much pounds of load actually on the line. Not sure if I'm being clear or more confusing.

[RazorRoss3]

You force line tension/load on the line after centerline through the outbound path you take and through keeping your handle with you. If I give up my direction and go to the buoy then I have no line tension or load, I just went from 4 at CL to 0. If I edge change but keep the ski going in the same direction and keep my handle close to me then I maintain a tight line, when that happens you will naturally reduce from 4 to 1 on your way out because as you get farther up beside the boat it has less of a direct pull on you so less load.

 

It seems odd I know, but when you change edges you are still more than able to be applying pressure to the line and continue to go outbound rather than allowing the boat to take you to the ball. The difference is that from buoy to wake you can apply that pressure through a pull, from wake to buoy it is more of a resist. Human effort may be similar leading to 1-2-3-4-3-2-1 but actual load levels would be skewed to the side you were coming from but still follow and up and then down pattern.

[matthewbrown]

He's the only skier that keeps his shoulders in alignment with his hips, which are directly above his knees, which are directly above his feet, for the entire 16.08 seconds, most the rest of the pros and certainly all of us, spend our time moving in and out of this sweet spot sparingly. The acceleration, handle control, proper load, etc...is a by-product of this.

[Roger]

@rico = "I think the main difference is that he's lighter on the line"

I was standing with John Shealy at the side of the lake in Palm Bay a couple of years ago while Nate was skiing. When he came in, he walked over to us and showed us his hands which were bloody and he said "So much for the light on the line myth". I've pulled most of the Open skiers and most of the Big Dawg skiers and I can tell you that none of them are light on the line behind the boat...

[Razorskier1]

Making it look easy (which Nate does) requires working hard. Like the comment above about angle but staying up off the water. I've focused on that hard for over a year. I think of it as moving my upper body forward to the handle at completion rather than away from the boat.

[Chad_Scott]

@matthewbrown You nailed it. He is far from light on the line. He loads as hard as anyone. Just always in the same spot. Ask Nate how many handles he bends? He has it figured out and experience at 41 is a huge advantage. He runs 41 off every time he skis. He rarely misses it.

[Razorskier1]

Loading is a weird concept. Two points. First, load can only come from the boat, and changes in load will come from the difference between your direction and the path of the handle. So . . . The idea of loading 1-2-3-4-4-3-2-1, which i have also heard from Chet, is a function of the handle path. For example, if I ski a constant direction across course, this load pattern will be the result of the boat moving away from me, and the path of the handle. I can create that load pattern by merely maintaining my direction. For Nate to generate that much load at CL suggests that he is (a) creating more angle than others, and (b) is strong enough to hold that angle through the peak of the load at CL.

[Stevie Boy]

If you watch the Pro Final Video 1hr 16mins in, you soon realise how much course awareness Nate has, always fairly upright, adds extra load when required through the center line never off the ball, he carries speed through the course, he only adds when he feels he is losing speed and then just enough, so he can maintain control, some Pro,s are reactive loading hard off the ball when in trouble, generally when you do this, it creates too much speed for the next bouy, you are in for a hard and fast ride.

The other thing I noticed, he turns his whole body across course, as somebody else stated in perfect aligment, other skiers remain slightly open relying on their lower body rotation for angle.

Thats what I see, maybe others see it in another way, Nate certainly skis different, he truly is a fine Athelete, Physically and Mentally.

Great driving from Chad Scott, he deserve,s a beer.

[lpskier]

While all the driving and skiing may be record setting quality, word on the street is that the video may be questionable due to the late hour / low light and therefore the boatpath may be difficult to plot. I haven't seen the video, but that's what I have heard.

 

How was the sanction issue resolved?

[DW]

"He runs 41 off every time he skis". There might just be a sliver of hope for the young man to figure this skiing thing out, just maybe he will.

[Wish]

I can lighten any still shot with just my phone and make it look like a bright day. I cannot imagine they could not lighten the video before it gets plotted. If that is not done, they simply did not try hard enough.

 

[ScottScott]

An overall image can be lightened "In post" but if the needed information wasn't captured in the 1st place due to low light, it can't always be recovered.

[sunvalleylaw]

I just think it is damned cool. And an inspiration. Congratulations, Nate!

[Edbrazil]

I wonder if anyone has experimented with trying to score anything on the next line loop

after 9.75m? Which is 9.50m. Could be an interesting fun challenge for $$.

Back in the late 1970s, when we were a bunch of dubbers at Ultra Pond in NH, Mark Crone

challenged anyone to even score one buoy at 38 off. He made it sound so difficult that

none of us tried it. I kind of regret that now, but you can't turn the clock back.

[Than_Bogan]

@Edbrazil Some years back I tried to score something-other-than-zero at 36/-41. Never got close.

[MattP]

The score book online shows 3 rounds. Another step forward to a new record!

[Stevie Boy]

I take it that the boat path only has to be checked to where nate made it back to the center line?

Would they also check the 41off pass?

[Edbrazil]

Yep. Would look at the boat path and gates for 41 off 10.25m, as well as 9.75m.

 

At the 1977 Nationals in Berkeley, with continued runoffs that probably took longer than

the event itself, 2 skiers got into 3 loops beyond 38 off. The Technical Controller had

to keep hustling down with fid and line segment to keep adding loops. So, the line

had 10.75, 10.25, and 9.75 added. Final-final runoff between 2 skiers was up at 10.25

and back at 9.75. Both scored zero plus zero, and it had to be ruled a tie.

 

Rules changed after that. They had been requiring a new shortening for a continued tie.

[Horton]

The sanction thing was finally explained to me. Every skier got 2 rounds and only the skiers who made the final got the third. I guess that is why the forms read funny. Bottom line is the sanction is not an issue as far as I have been told.

[MISkier]

@rico,

 

Nobody ran it. They kept shortening the rope even though the skiers were getting zero scores (but were still tied).

[Edbrazil]

Think they might have tied with going up at 10.75 and back at 10.25. Maybe with 1 or 2,

plus zero. In the days of add buoys.

[ALPJr]

'77 Berkeley was David Spencer of Owego NY Men 1 Overall Champ