NRG, Denali, or Rev 6?

[Buoyhead69]

I'm on a 67" 2015 Quest 45 right now. I bought it late summer 2015. I ski a lot, 5-6 days/week so this ski may have over 500 sets on it. I noticed it is chipped/frayed toward the tip. This is my 3rd full summer in the course & I'm really happy to say I'm closing in on -28 at 34mph (running -22 pretty much every time and my training loop half the time if good water). Haven't run -28 yet, it's very different for me (my gate, how I pull, the feel of the wake), but today I got to 4 ball & I'm beginning to taste it. You guys have been a big help on a lot of stuff for me in the past so here's another- I've been reading on the forum that most of you guys buy a new ski every year, and there's been a lot of love for the Denali & NRG (however, most of you guys are much better than me). Do I stay with my current Quest 45? Buy a new Quest 45? Buy the NRG or Denali or a Rev 6 (recommended by one of the guys I ski with)? Or spend the $ to do the demo programs? I'm 6'1" 175lbs. Advice please...

[gregy]

I'm about the same weight and height as you. I've been on a 2015 and 2016 Lithium Vapors, both 67". I really like both of them and 2016 has gotten me deep into 32off and for budget issues I'll stick with it for a while longer. Right now the skis that are peaking my interest are 2018 Vapor, Denali, and the new KD ski. If your interested in sticking with D3 the NRG has some comparisons with the ARC. I'd try some other skis if it were me some of the newer skis will be a little easier on the body especially for as much as you ski.

[DanE]

I wouldn't rule out the D3 ARC

[sunvalleylaw]

Read @SkiJay 's comparison of the NRG and ARC. It is illuminating. I also spoke to Paul at D3. The NRG is not a replacement for the ARC/ARC-S. It is a different ski. I looked into it, just because I wanted to see what the next thing was. I am sticking with my ARC for what I am trying to do with my skiing. I am a stong freeskier, and a little behind you in course skiing.

 

SkiJay's ARC/NRG comparison

[Buoyhead69]

Thank you. I've thought about the ARC. The NRG has gotten so much attention I kind of forgot about the ARC. I'm hesitant to deviate too much from the Quest, I skied on a Strada before I bought the Quest & I felt the Quest was quieter and more stable into the ball. That was a long time ago, though, maybe I should re-visit the Vapor. A guy on our lake runs -35 with a Vapor.

[LeonL]

You can't go wrong with the D3 promo program. They'll send you an ARC and a NRG. Send one back. Send both back and it costs you $70. At least that's the way their pgm used to be. Hard to beat.

[Than_Bogan]

I can't believe I'm gonna say this, but I don't think I'd recommend the Denali... yet! -28 is a different animal, and after you master those skills, I think the Denali should be near the top of your list. In the meantime, you may progress faster with the D3.

[skialex]

Difficult not to get biased answers, So my biased suggestion is not rule out the Rev6 or even the XTR, I ride the XT and rode the Rev 6, very impressed by both, I can not walk away from my Xt after 5 seasons and about 600 sets give or take.

I ve tried the ARC, T3,and a Denali also impressed by all, I would like to try the new Pro build and the Syndicate Pro, but for me it's difficult to step away from Goode skis.

You wouldn't go wrong with any new D3 though.

Alex,

[PurdueSkier]

500 sets on a ski might be a lot i don't know and there are always advancements in technology and design. If you want a new ski go buy one. New toys are always fun. But don't think that you have to have a new ski to turn more buoys. I think it is a stretch to say most people buy a new ski every year. I am sure some do but if you go to a local tournament you see all ages of skis. 500 sets at 22 and 28 off is a lot different than 500 sets at 38 and 39. Your ski is most likely not what's keeping you from running 28. Again if you want a new ski go get one and enjoy. Just don't do it because you think it is required to run the next pass.

[jhughes]

The Quest is still a damn good ski. I regret selling my original 2013 model. It's really going to be one of those timeless models that goes down in history as one of the all time greats. If you're trying to get -28 a new ski is not the answer so you may be asking the wrong question. If I were you I'd be asking what I could do in my move-out, glide, and turn-in to get 28.

[Buoyhead69]

I'm definitely not under any illusion that a new ski is the answer to me running -28. My gate, pull, position through the wakes (among other things) is the key to me progressing. And yes I love my Quest. Now sunvalleylaw has made me aware of finwhisperer.com & my head has calipers dancing inside; I've never thought I was good enough to worry about fin settings. The main thing is the cracking and fraying at the tip of my Quest & if that's something indicative of other issues with the ski? Every post above is awesome, if I do pull the trigger on a ski I want everyone's opinion. And I am a little shocked ThanBogen that you didn't say buy the Denali, score one for your objectivity/credibility!

[Than_Bogan]

Thanks. But also read @Horton's very insightful review again. He makes it pretty clear that you should be pretty handy with a caliper before getting a Denali.

 

Believe me, when the time is right, I will recommend one in the strongest terms!

[sunvalleylaw]

@Buoyhead69 , Yeah, I just got turned on to that blog reading the ski comparison, that Horton posted on Facebook this morning. Though I knew about SkiJay before, and about fin whispering. But also read a couple of the other blog entries. One discusses when to make fin adjustments, etc. It posits that for longer liners, stock, or pretty close to stock setting from a good reputable source, is better than tweaking too much. Or so I read it to say. I am getting the book, but more to learn than to tweak too much from stock. I want to make clear that I do NOT feel qualified to recommend any specific ski, settings, binding, etc. to anyone. Just talking about my process and info I found (including the FinWhispering blog) here. That said, I think if you demo a NRG, you should also demo an ARC.

 

You are getting into 28 off, (which is also my goal, btw), and so your needs are changing. So your path might be different. I am using my calipers and wing gauges to make sure I am stock, and without some coaching input or input from SkiJay (you can send him some film for review), I don't plan on moving things too much from stock. But again, I am behind you in the course, and chasing you from there. The good news is it is all fun to learn about and play with. :)

 

I am interested to see what you choose. I, myself for me personally, believe most in trying skis and going with feel. What feels best. Along with what helps you get more balls, but to me that is likely to also feel best. I am looking forward to seeing what ski you think is best for your next steps. And also tracking your progress into completing 28. Keep us posted!

[Booze]

@Buoyhead69 - I've ridden a ton of skis in the last 2 years. None of them were "bad", but all had their own personality. (like women? ha) There were a couple that many people rave about, that I didn't go for.

I agree with the common opinion that there are fast skis and sticky skis, and that each style or design has advantages and disadvantages. Likely, the challenge for designers is finding the right blend of both characteristics?

 

My opinion is the only way to know if you will like a ski is to demo it.

 

 

 

My list from last ~2 years:

XTR (in different sizes)

XT

Rev6 (in different sizes)

XTM (in different sizes)

XTT

Flextail

N1FT

GT ('16, '17, and '18)

Denali ('16 and waiting on the new one)

Vapor ('16 and '18)

VTR

T1

T2

T3

Arc

NRG

 

[Than_Bogan]

@Booze That's more skis than I've been on my entire life. What were you looking for? Just knowledge?

 

(And how can you get anyone to send you a ski if you're 90% likely to return it? :smile: )

[DW]

@Buoyhead69 : As said before, try before you buy. Consider what you will do (or lose) if you purchase a ski and realize you don't like it for whatever reason. Demo programs are there just so a customer does not make a mistake as much as a selling tool for the manufacturer. Good luck.

[Booze]

@Than_Bogan - I love trying new skis, for fun and yeah, for knowledge and possibly helping confirm the current or go-to ski is the right one. Friends joke I have commitment issues.

Also, a few on that list are one-time rides. Skis being demo'd by friends, etc. (T1, Arc, NRG, GT, '18 Vapor at Nats) Yes, not full demos but nevertheless fun and useful.

 

Actually of those demo'd I haven't send many back. SIA and skier friends are an awesome thing to have. :)

 

 

 

[DW]

@Booze : You would be an awesome older brother! What an assortment of hand me downs...

[aupatking]

I ran my first -28 on a Quest 45. Nothing wrong with the ski, except the performance window, FOR ME, felt smaller than the 16-17 shape Vapor. So, FOR ME, I went with a ski that I could get away with a little more bad skiing, and run my passes. It sounds like you're thinking the ski is in physically bad shape, more than looking for a ski that makes you run a shorter pass. And that's good, because none will.

I know nothing about the NRG, but I've got a lot of rides in on the Arc too, so if you want to stick with a D3, it's a familiar feel, but more user friendly.

My biased opinion, get a 16-17 Vapor, or go wild and get an 18. Pro Build or Lithium

[Chef23]

It is certainly easy enough to try an ARC and NRG through D3. I would certainly think about that as a first step.

[dbski]

@booze no DBski? You have everything else!

[Booze]

@dbski - Not yet. But I at least have one of your clipboards! :wink:

[jayski]

I will second @Than_Bogan and his statement on the Denali, I have one and love it, but if you are not proficient with calipers or have someone willing to aid in that department it's not for you...takes a bit to get it set up but when you do...it's $$$

[spicoli]

Before a new 1 I would try some fin adjustments stock isn't 4 everyone I still don't think you can ski to your or its potential if the fin ain't right you'll always struggle .1 small move and you and your d3 might eat 28 up and If not you can always move it back to were u are now.i can stuggle with space and t week it a little and wow way easier

[Wish]

Buy @SkiJay Fin Whisperer, calipers and the Denali...or just hit the boys up on the Danali Forum. They will dial you in if you just own calipers. :)

[Buoyhead69]

You guys are bringing it with great advice & amazing insight. So today I got around 5 ball at -28, I was early to 4 got into good position & (in the words of my driver) started patting myself on the back too soon & got too much slack at 5 to see 6 ball- I really thought I'd run it when I turned around 4. So this does make me feel my Quest can get me there. I love spicoli's advice, I've been on jayski's site a bunch last night. Do I buy the book or just spend the $ on the Mentorship Package? Have any of you guys done the Mentorship Package? What do you think jayski? And I love Wish's idea of going nuts & buying a Denali & calipers, how fun would that be? The prudent thing (Chef23) would be to demo an ARC and NRG, what a phenomenal demo program from D3. And yeah Booze you're right I'm sure they're all good skis at that level/price point, each with they're own personality and yes I agree you're commitment-phobic lol. So much good insight, I'm trying to process it, thanks so much. Ever hear of paralysis by analysis?

[Than_Bogan]

If you think getting your first caliper and jumping on a Denali with

.. er .. both feet sounds FUN, then I completely change my recommendation. You'll be drinking from a firehose, but you'll learn a ton in a hurry!

[MickeyThompson]

@Buoyhead69 I have a 2017 67" ARC for sale SIA43565 $999.00 shipped. Excellent condition used 4 weeks. If interested let me know.

[Buoyhead69]

Thanks everyone for the feedback, after all the good advice I did... nothing. But ski more & work on my position & gate & width. So... I'm now running my 34mph -28 which I'm unbelievably happy about. Now trying to get around 3 ball at -32 (why is this so addictive, I though -28 would be the holy grail! Now I want -32!) I'm still on my 2015 Quest 45, getting used to -32 & the load, gate, wake, etc. I looked at my Quest; 3 small cracks at tip and 2 digs in the ski, 1 at rocker block & one near my RTP, both on my offside edge. I love this ski I'll never sell it, but are these signs that the ski is breaking down? Obviously it's not bad, I got my -28. As @PurdueSkier said it would be fun to have a new toy but at this point is that all a new ski would really be?

[Than_Bogan]

Well, I take full credit for motivating you!

And now I can whole heartedly recommend the c-65! :)

 

But seriously, congratulations! -28 is a big deal.

[Buoyhead69]

Thanks @Than_Bogan I always appreciate your comments on any topic you always have good stuff & a sense of humor. Actually, a guy who skis with a bunch of guys on my lake is selling his almost new Denali c65... hmmm... do I have that kind of $ burning a hole in my pocket???

[Gar]

So why is he selling that c65?

[Buoyhead69]

LOL he's a heck of a nice guy & honest guy but a sub-par salesman

[Buoyhead69]

Oops that got cut off. He said its dramatically different than anything he's ever skied before & he's a very experienced tournament skier. Basically said the second you release the handle it slows down dramatically, no "glide" & despite tweaking the fin etc he couldn't get used to it. This makes sense given Adam Cord's GUT theory, the idea of a ski that makes the skier keep tension & pull to get high on the boat then slows down quick to get around the buoy. I'm extremely intrigued by it but I should probably stay with something more predictable im still a rookie!

[GMC]

@Buoyhead69 As a friend of friends I didn't want to give you the hard sell on something that you may not like!

 

@Gar, the Denali does all the great things advertised but requires more handle control than I currently practice. I do not regret trying the ski at all, it was really fun and enlightening to try something so different.

 

At the moment I'm back on my ProBuild working on that and enjoying our extension of summer while I wait for the Pony Express to deliver the next ski I want to try.

 

[dwfrech]

Hey Bonyhead69: I have a Quest and a Quest45. I'm 6'2" and 170 lbs. Kind of similar to you. Mine is a 66" ski. Now could go for 67 (and I have skied on a 67 D3 Nomad ... not a whole lot different in terms of how fast it felt or how much lift it gave). I like the Quest 45. I don't think it is limiting me for progressing in slalom. Most of the problems come from being out of position or not keeping the handle under control between the wakes and the slalom buoy. All that being said, the Quest45 seems to turn a little more fluidly, and faster. The Quest is probably a bit more stable in the cut portion of the path. But, if you have a scrappy turn, then no ski will really save you and re-establish great leverage in the cut. I skied half the season on the white Quest, and since about mid-July, have been on the Quest45. One thing to check is not only your fin, but make sure your bindings are in the right place front-to-back of the ski. My front boot was about 3/4 inch too far forward. I moved it back, and now the Quest45 is much more controlled in the corners, though still fast. If I ski with the right fundamentals, it is a great ski.

 

I guess for less than elite skiers, there is always a search for some ski that will more effectively rescue you when you fall out of position. I know the older Quest was less likely to throw me out of the game when I messed up. But when you are starting to get better form, the new Quest was better. Then there is how you adjust the fin to further change its characteristics. I don't know enough to do much of that, and generally stick to "stock" settings and see what I can get out of a ski when I am skiing right. Not saying this is the only way to go, just how I try to develop my own technique. Hope this helps. D3 is the only ski I have had for <10 years, so I can't comment on Radar/Denali/Syndicate/Goode/any other mfgr.

[Buoyhead69]

@GMC Hi I thought you might see this lol, I really do appreciate your honesty, really good of you & much appreciated. I'd still love to try that ski but my Quest 45 got me running 34mph -28 and now into -32 so I'm really happy with it. I want to be clear I'm not trying to buy a ski to get me to my next pass, I know that's all me not the ski but with the chips & dings Is it indicative of further issues within the ski (at least 500 sets on it). Obviously can't be too bad I'm getting my -28 & now into -32. But how do you guys determine when to buy a new ski? Or new rope & handle for that matter? I don't have any experience with this stuff, only my third full summer on the course...

[Gar]

@GMC thanks!

[Conor]

@bouyhead69 sounds like your quest 45 has seen better days, and congrats on your skiing! It's so sweet when you finally get through 28s, and start moving into 32. You have earned a new ski, in my opinion. Or, at least, demo a couple in the spring. Maybe you will find one that works amazing for you.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Sounds to me, with all the good progress, that @Buoyhead69 ought to at least demo the skis from D3 that come from the same family of ski design. Success breeds success. @Conor , you know something about getting through your 28s as well this year! Sounds like you might be thinking about something similar. ;-)

[34mph]

17 or 18 senate lithium or a 16 vapor if you can find one.

[mcskier41]

No, no on Denali. You would be just be creating frustration for yourself. Demo as many ski's as possible and make sure they are at factory settings so you have a constant consistent starting point. I personally like the '16 Vapor the best after trying the Quest, ARC, and HO VTR. But each ski will fit everyone differently and boot placement and fin settings also play a big role

[sodbuster88]

@Buoyhead69, and all you other Quest jockies, what binding set up are using?

[ozski]

I'm certain you can jump on a great ski with the wrong setup and walk away with the wrong impression, I bet it happens all the time. All of these high end skis are so good these days that in my opinion setup is just as important if not more so than the brand of ski you purchase.

[Buoyhead69]

I personally use a 2016 Radar Vapor boot (pre-carbitex), I found a great deal online last winter & bought 2 of them beacaue I've found the rubber at rear Achilles/calf area rips (probably why they switched to carbitex for 2017) & when it rips it affects my ability to finish my turn & create speed across the wakes big time. I replaced my boot last week and, to be honest, I believe it played a pretty big role in finally running my 34mph -28 and getting into -32. I use a RTP, no double boot. I've been told to try hard shell for durability & support but I'm used to the Vapor & I like it. Next year I'll buy the carbitex. Fin is stock, this winter I plan to read the Fin Whisperer. I never thought I was a good enough skier to worry about fin set up, but at this point I want to look into it, you guys have made a big impression on me!

[LLUSA]

@Booze the only person I know that has more money in the back of his truck than he does in his truck.

[BraceMaker]

@ozski probably the best value of the ski reviews - figure out if you are the turd or if it is the ski ;)

[mbabiash]

Any bone on a 68 NRG?

Curious on numbers. I have one set on it and I really like it. It's not dialed in yet though. Kind of sticky on the off side.

I'm at 2.470 .750 6.940 7.5 30.25

Anyone have any numbers the are really liking for the 68?

[VONMAN]

I'm the second owner of a 2018 C-65 67" Denali. I'm 67 years old 190lbs RFF. Free ski at 34mph and course at 32mph. So lets get to it. The Denali can be the most intimidating ski I've ever skied on. First two days it wore me out. That being said, once you start to make some changes it comes alive.

On day 7 of my tuning here's what I found. First set. Front boot at 31"and large wing (not S-wing) at 10 degrees. Free ski at 28 thru 38 off 34mph ski felt fast and smooth, easy/lite on the line. If I let the ski do the work, butter. If (only at 38 off) I over loaded the rope, I would get slack. Second set with S-wing on at 8 degrees I noticed a little drag with the S-wing. BUT! the ski was like it was on a rail just doing it's thing under my feet. At 38 off I could load behind the boat for all it's worth and feel the wing give me a perfect decell around the turn and fall into the handle to pick me up. Next time out 7 degrees of wing.

If your having trouble with the high/drag/load. Try these steps. Set you fin to the 41off numbers. Swap out the S-wing for a normal wing at 10 degrees. (trust me on this, think of it as training wheels) Last step is front boot placement. Most important, I started out at 30.25 then 30.5 good, 30.75 wow, 31" WOW. Might try 31.125 someday. At 31" not a hint of nosing in for a OTF and still no tip rise. Ski is well planted. Once you get the boots set, go back to the S-wing but sneak up on some high wing angles. Start at 7 or 6 degrees.

My two favorite ski's in my quiver is a 2009 Goode 9800sl 67" and a 2016 Radar Vapor 67" and the Denali feels like it's on it's way to being number one.

 

[Booze]

That's interesting Ernie. I only had time for a few sets on mince before the cold rolled in.

Cold weather sucks.