Advancing the sport

[vtmecheng]

My wife and I have spent some time over the past year talking about why skiing has lost popularity from our parents' generation. Additionally, we are seeing fewer wakeboards and wakeskates. I have two thoughts on why this is happening. My generation, mid 30s to 40s, isn't buying into boating. I have friends who would love to have a boat and have good jobs but a boat is still out of reach. We have a hypothesis that the popularity of these water sports has declined due to the increased price of boat ownership and the increased cost of living. We spend money on cell phones, internet, and all kinds of electronics that our parents didn't have available. Plus, we spend more for the things they had, like cars, because we "need" all the fun electronics. That takes up all of our disposable income. We can't forget student loans that go on forever. Then, just like cars, boats are more expensive because they need touch screens and bangin' sound systems. Gas is also expensive, impacting getting the boat to the water and your time on the water. It makes sense that the boat would be the first thing to go for most people.

 

My second point is that people are over weight. Water sports are physically demanding and being fat and out of shape isn't conducive to them. At some point, the average person just can't do it without feeling like crap for days, if they can do it at all.

 

The TL;DR: Boating is expensive and we have less disposable income for it. Also, people are getting fatter and physically unfit, making water sports harder. That's two huge hurdles to get past. What do you all think?

[Fam-man]

Interesting thoughts.

What about the expectation for instant gratification? Skiing or wake boarding is rarely an instant success scenario.

[Orlando76]

i wrote a ten page response on why I disagree with you only to realize heck, I pretty much agree with you even though I don’t want too.

[vtmecheng]

The addiction for instant gratification is a problem today. I have noticed that even when we take people out, they get up, and have fun it's still just a one time thing. Just too much money for most of them to buy into it.

 

All that said, I do wonder why wake surfing has become a go to for those that do jump into water sports. Is it because it's easier to do at the start or because it takes less physical ability? I saw a guy drinking a beer while wake surfing so it can't be too taxing (I haven't tried it).

[mopowpow]

Another problem is not being able to get smooth public water for water sports. The lakes are just too busy, and the boats keep getting bigger. We used to have property on a natural lake in northern Iowa. When we started out the average boat size was 18'-20'. When we sold 20 years later, most boats were deep V and around 25', or larger. It was getting scary to have our 1993 Sport Nautique on the lake during the afternoon. We had pretty much given up on waterskiing, except early mornings during mid-week. The water was trashed by 10am for wakeboarding. Wake surfing and tubing were really the only options left.

[gregy]

@skibrain I agree, there is so much focus on these expensive new boats. Even some of the runabouts are getting expensive. My friend just spent 65k on pontoon boat.

 

I had a blast as a kid skiing in the river behind a 25hp flat bottom boat. There's some good deals on older used ski boats that you can have a lot of fun with, you can add speed control for $1000 or less. Or society is focused on keeping up with "keeping up with the Jones". All that said I think there is more to it than money. Seems a lot of people don't leave there living rooms for entertainment these days.

[AdamCord]

I’m tempted to bolt some skegs and a rudder onto one of these and integrate Zero Off. 230hp and $14,699

 

https://goo.gl/m14GGM

[thager]

Great, then you won't have to wait for someone to come screw up the water! B)

[vtmecheng]

Interesting points. I do think the keeping up mentally is a factor. People are embarrassed so easily these days if they don't have something nice. I remember being embarrassed as a kid because we were one of the last to still have a huge station wagon (Now looking back, that was a great car that could take the 5 of us with a ton of stuff, tow a boat, and fit a sheet of drywall in the back). This mentality really does hinder being happy.

 

At the same time, the nice boats keep getting more expensive. Like @gregy said, even pontoon boats can degrade the bank account. I would say that boat manufacturers need to make lower end ski boats but a couple year old Chaparral H2O serious is plenty for just having fun free skiing. Problem is, the cost of tech takes precedence for most.

 

Maybe it's just that people don't want to leave their living rooms. I just am amazed at how skiing is almost unknown these days. So many of my coworkers don't even know what I mean when I say "I was water skiing."

[JAS]

All youth sports now extend past competitive season. If your kids want to play, add club sports to the mix. Another drain on $ and TIME for families. Certainly is a different time we live in. Not bad, just different

[wannabeballer]

I agree with every comment posted here. I'm 42 and 4 years ago I bought a used bow rider and then got the bug so bad that I invested in a used SN196. The lake I use is a public lake which is a great one. However about 5min away from there is another lake that in the past has hosted national and international events, and is pretty much perfect glass all the time. This is the lake that the local water ski club uses. It has 2 courses on it as well as a jump ramp. It is a public lake with only one launch that is on First Nations land. The lake is beside a highway that I drive by often and the lake is always empty. So I found the email of the head of the ski club and inquired about joining and he said that there is no chance of any spot coming up for a very long time. I am very fortunate to have met some other local skiers who have helped me improve in the sport. However I have found that the ski club is run by a former president of Waterski Canada. The club is limited to 20 members on this beautiful empty public lake. I can't believe that a person who was so involved in our national ski team would not want to be inclusive to those who are passionate about the sport. Some of the other skiers that I have met have been involved locally for 20 plus years and have tried to have access to ski this lake to no avail. This is pretty much the only access to a course within about 3 hours drive. All the skiers that I know that would love to use the lake are fantastic and responsible people. The hinderance to advancing the sport in my part of the world is an old boys club that wants it all for themselves and rarely uses it. I know for a fact that they could allow more people to join in and keep the passion of the sport alive locally. It is so frustrating for those of us who just want to grow in this sport and bring other people in to enjoy it as well.

[LeonL]

@wannabeballer , well that sucks. I think that one of worst things that ever happened to cause a decline in slalom skiing was the growth in numbers of private sites. This coming from a private lake skier. What got me interested was watching moderately skilled slalom skiers throwing big spray on a public lake. If people don't see a specific sport how would they ever get interested?

Our site is within a 1 hour drive of the 2 largest cities in KY with a total population of over 900K. If you take in the full radius of this one hour distance you're well over one million. We currently have 7, count 'em, 7 members. There is public lake about 45 minutes from our site that maintains a slalom course and has nearly 30 members. That's good but hardly a drop in the proverbial bucket considering the population. We get none of them to our tournaments, however. I applaud them, as they instill much more interest in the sport than we ever could. I still wish we could get some of them to ski at our site and perhaps grow tournament skiing.

[parkerc2112]

I used to Ski Lake austin 30 years ago behind a 15 ft Glastron tri hull with 90 Johnson(3000$ used). The people with MC and nautiques would gawk at the skill behind that old tiny pos boat.

It’s simply comes down to the fact that no one takes the time, energy or effort anymore. Might have to be away their phone for a couple hours.

[dave2ball]

All are very good points. I agree with most. As far as wakeboarding a person or family will invest in the area of 150-175K which does not includes a proper tow vehicle. It’s a keeping up with the Jones ideology. They must have the last eat and greatest. Not too many families can afford this long term. If you look around you see more G boat for sale now. You also have length restrictions on many lake. Many do not allow boats over 20 feet and do not allow wake enhanced boats. That will push skiers out to do something else.

3 event skiing has pretty much cut its own throat. USA Water ski holding high standards on tow boats, the fact that the MFG’s have added all this electronic equipment that increases the price as said earlier, the public waterways not allowing slalom courses to be put on and used responsibly and finally the costs of private ski sites have pushed out.

This has become a rich family sport. For the sport to advance and become popular lots of thing need to change.

[jhughes]

It's not money/disposable income. I got into this sport right as I started working out of college and I've been able to "afford" the sport this whole time. Sure, I've scaled up my land and water fleet over time alongside the income, but with desire you can make this sport happen at any income level.

 

I don't think it's the public/private water thing, either. Again, with desire you make it happen no matter what. We were out every weekend at 6AM deploying a portable course before we ever even dreamed of having private water. You make it happen because you love it, regardless of convenience. We would do ANYTHING to get on the water and ski buoys.

 

It's not exposure. My kids have been around it since day one and don't want anything to do with it. Same with their friends and dozens of other folks we've brought out or taught to ski. It's neat, it's a novelty, but... meh.

 

I do think it takes a very unique set of wants/desires to actually want to do this sport at any serious level. You really have to love it and work at it and sacrifice a lot for it. In addition to skiing, I love boating, I love tourney inboards (always have as a kid), I love the water. We probably all do to some extent.

 

You kinda either get the bug, or you don't. If you're in the latter crowd, you're really never going to "get" it no matter what your financial status or amount of exposure is.

 

 

[6balls]

Watch the traffic on a public lake in a high rent district. Nothing but wake and surf boats boarding, surfing, or tubing...almost no one skiing. A few die hards in the early morning hours.

 

I live rural in a low rent district on a public lake...again almost no one skis. Shoot I don't even ski here I go south 10 miles to run buoys on our ski swamp. My kids board and tube...and surf behind a friends boat when he's around.

 

Sometimes the gateway drug...what is it here? The gateway is not skiing then become a boarder or surfer. The gateway to being on the water is boarding/surfing/tubing. How to create some skiing out of that I'm not quite sure.

[eyepeeler]

$70,000 ski boats + $2,000 skis + $40 ski rides + Constant injury +$60 chiropractor visits + Few good public sites + Million dollar private sites = I sold all of my ski stuff and bought tax free bonds instead and I am a lot happier!!

[dnewton]

At the age of 25, seems like none of my friends even think it’s that cool. They all fall once and think that are never going to be good.

[RazorRoss3]

As I have said in similar discussions for years, advancing the sport means making it reasonably affordable and realistic for collegiate skiers to keep skiing post grad. They’re mostly 3-event skiers, they enjoy it, and it is the fastest growing segment of USA waterski but has very little flow through to post collegiate events because ince you aren’t going in on everything with 20 other people they are priced out of the sport and can’t find access to water.

[jcamp]

@vtmecheng I think you sum it up really well. And @JAS I couldn't agree with you more. Then you add that people just work more now, and less of that work is shift work (used to be in at 7am, out at 3pm then at the lake the rest of the day) and people just don't have as much time for these types of activities anymore.

[Wish]

I pride myself on finding inexpensive ways to stay in this sport. It's a looong list of creative ways. It can be done and remain competitive. It does require some sweat equity and thinking outside the box.

[LoopSki]

The price of new skis is ridiculous

[Beeker]

@LoopSki That's the truth, I love my D3 Quest, But I would love to add an ARC to my Quiver someday!

[Horton]

You guys have no idea what skiing costs until you live in Southern California.

[BraceMaker]

Ski sites near metro city centers would be your solution. Get 1 ski club located downtownish in 10 big cities and the sport will grow.

[ScottScott]

Compared to other sports, I don't necessarily find skiing to be THAT expensive. Compare the equipment to golf equipment. The more serious you get, the more it costs, in many sports. But most sports can be done frugally. OR, if you really want to break the bank, get into (or have kids get into) equestrian sports. I had 2 girls, both riding horses. (owned 2 horses, boarding, lessons, shows, etc.) Think a ski is expensive.....go shopping for saddles. We were having trouble finding the right saddle to fit one horse we had.....we had to trailer the horse to the tack shop, they brought out a stack of saddles, and of course the most expensive saddle was the one that fit the best....

[Kelvin]

@ScottScott Plus, horses eat even when you aren't riding them. Boats don't use gas just sitting in the lift.

[WIRiverRat]

A while ago Jeff Surdej posted membership numbers for USA Waterski by state on this site. If someone can find that again I think some of us were surprised to see that the largest participation did not occur in Florida, California or any other state in the south but in Wisconsin. So what is that state that ranks 20th in population and spends a good amount of its year covered in snow doing to attract so many members? The answer is show skiing... Now I am not saying we should all go out and join a show, far from it. But what does show skiing do that gets so many members? Every week they ski in front of people on a public lake and after every show an announcement is made that sounds something like "if you liked what you saw today and want to learn how to do that yourself come join us and we would love to teach you."

 

If we look at three event skiing a good majority of the people skiing tournaments are now on private lakes where no one sees them. No kid is watching them everyday getting excited or interacting with them to even have a chance to learn from them.

 

Now I can't blame the good skiers for going to private water as the regulations make it very hard to get access to quality skiing on public water or in most cases even put a slalom course in. If we worked to get more access for skiers on public water and helped to make it easier to get slalom courses and jumps out there you would see people get interested and start to grow the sport again.

[RazorRoss3]

@WIRiverRat not to mention a Wisconsin has something like 10,000 lakes and 7 collegiate waterski teams. Across the board access and visibility are easier to come by so you see more people joining the party.

[Wish]

@WIRiverRat makes a good point. I'm sure we have all experienced that aquward moment when you have to explain slalom to that confused person that assumes and then asks if you build those pyramids or bare foot or jump or wake board or these days...wake surf. Those are in the public eye. Slalom has hidden itself (out of necessity for the most part) behind gated private lake communities.

[tjs1295]

Hey guys, first post here. I have some observations from northern Wisconsin. I agree with Joel, when earlier he stated you either have the bug, or you don't. My observation is kind of the opposite. Meaning that I'm surprised anyone age 25-45 (I'm 42, wife 40) is out on the water with a boat doing anything. How do casual water sports fans do it? As stated previously, the youth sports seasons are never ending, we spend a small fortune on phones/television/internet/cars/gas, and every household has everyone working. I think for the average family the start up costs are still overwhelming, even if you do it cheap. We went the cheap/used route, and it's still a decent commitment with ongoing costs. Then you need a place to store the boat (at least in places where the water freezes). My wife and I have taken multiple people from the area out boating and/or skiing. A few actually loved it, but there is no way they would ever consider buying a boat and using it themselves. Our boat is about 1 hour 15 min from where we live, and work. You'd be surprised how many people think that's about the same as driving to Alaska. There are lakes all around where we live as well, but I don't know anyone who water skis locally. I grew up on lakes, learned to water ski at a young age, and absolutely love everything there is about being out on the water in a boat. That being said, there's no way I would spend the time, and money on a boat if I couldn't keep it on a lift at the lake. We actually owned the house on the lake for 8 years before we bought a boat in 2013 (1994 Ski Nautique). The main reason is that I have to use something in order to justify getting it. Plus it was only my wife and I, so water skiing was out of the question (need 3 to ski in WI). It would have been torture to have a boat and not be able to ski very much. Wife never spent time on boats growing up either. Once my brother's kids got older (who live where the boat is) we got one. They all ski, but have too many sports all Summer long to get out that much. They seem indifferent to it anyway. Well, those are my observations from a place where at times it appears there's more water acreage than land acreage.

[DW]

My observation as a resident on a small all sports private lake - the young kids have been exposed to water sports through the parents, they participated (unfortunately moving more to tubing rather than skiing) actively until a certain point in school when being part of a larger social group or group sporting activity became more alluring than spending time on a boat with just a few people. They also don't seem to rekindle the interest at a later date. The Wisconsin example seems to suggest sports with larger participation can be more successful or maybe its just cheese, brats and beer. It also seems as though there are more opportunities and options to a variety of ways to be entertained, not all good but there to occupy time.

 

As far as the title - Advancing the sport - my interpretation of that has been the advent of developing private sites, moving the sport to a niche activity via equipment improvements (read added cost) along with governmental regulations that tend to restrict rather than enhance participation. Pretty much similar to many other expensive sports and a natural progression where a sport requires significant mechanical equipment to perform.

[Horton]

@ScottScott in California (south of Sacromento) you pretty much have to buy a lot on a private lake to get slalom course access. There are one or two exceptions but they are impractical for most skiers. My investment is close to 250k and that is doing it on the cheap. Sure if you live in the southern US were real estate is cheap and lakes are everywhere you can ski for a few grand a year. California is the most populous state in the country and for most of us there is no cheap option.

 

My lake house is now my full time residence so maybe my personal situation does not count anymore.

 

My point is skiing is very expensive for at least some of us.

[dave2ball]

Skiing in California is not cheap refuardless of where you go. Florida is not much better as far as cost. The one big advantage is that the lakes are everywhere and there is a course on most of them. But you still have to deal with fishermen and wake board barges.

[swc5150]

@WIRiverRat makes a great points. I think every town here with a lake and decent population has a water ski show team. I'm almost willing to bet we have more direct-drive ski boats per capita than any other state too. DD's out-number wake boats on the two lakes I ski on by probably 5-1.

[gsm_peter]

Welcome to Sweden!!

Few private cources. Many clubs.

Clubs are Always Open for new members.

One boat One Course can handle approx 50 skiers with out to much waiting time.

Fees are about 250 usd per year plus gas and volounter work.

 

[DaveD]

$250/year? That's practically free. Then again, does the water in Sweden ever get above 10degC?

[vtmecheng]

Love the discussion and so many good points to think about.

[mmosley899]

@wannabeballer hits on a big problem "The hinderance to advancing the sport in my part of the world is an old boys club that wants it all for themselves and rarely uses it." We need more courses on public lakes and more exposure to young skiers on public lakes.

[Orlando76]

Plus, in my case as a struggling -22 at best 32mph skier I find many good skiers with deep pockets don’t want their -38 and shorter images messed up with a scrappy skier who shows up on a 2 year old ski and a work truck with a 20 year old ski boat. I’m thankful for the very few who give me the opportunity otherwise I’d stick with fishing.

[BraceMaker]

This is where we need a really good app developer to create a website and phone app where you can book pulls. @mmosley899 - this would be the place where the "old boys club" could sell pulls. There has to be some part of groups like USA waterski where they would actively try to book time at lakes all over the country to host learn to ski and fun events to get people on the water.

Even on public water - where's the app to find a 3rd? People have facebook groups, meet up pages, user forums (this one included) where people are posting to find a pull somewhere - why not make it easy? Pay when you book, have the ability to set parameters such as usa waterski membership or age/experience levels.

 

Would be a great tool.

[MISkier]

@BraceMaker, we use the "Hub" app at our ski club to coordinate schedules and plan ski times. I believe the owner of the group defined in the app will pay a very small fee if usage goes above some limit on the free version. It's really inexpensive, though. It even does reminders on your phone, tablet, etc. and email notifications.

[BraceMaker]

@MISkier - the infrastructure is for sure there - but how can you get that into the hands of a guy who's in the general area, lives on public water, and has a bug for slalom skiing?

[AdamCord]

@BraceMaker water ski uber? Now that might be a good idea

[dropski]

When I skied in college the past four years I had the time of my life. Many teams have a decent practice boat during the week. At tournaments we get to ski behind brand new towboats with experienced drivers. All for the small price of team dues. The tournament scene was amazing, sure there are people there with various levels of serious commitment to tournament skiing, but I know tons of people who would love to continue outside of college. Maybe collegiate tournament organizers could provide more information and incentives to collegiate skiers who will be graduating on how and where they can continue after graduation. Tons of us would love to continue.

[LeonL]

BOS ambassador program is a good start toward providing contacts for ski opportunities, as well as for Ballers who are traveling. I just looked at the list. There 21 contacts (ambassadors) spread over 10 states and 3 provinces. Surely more Ballers than 21 can sign up. Conspicuously absent is the state of FL. The so-called capital of water skiing.

[scorban2]

Great conversation here. I've fortunately seen the opposite side of a few of these "negative" points. I grew up skiing behind an I/O at our family lake place that's 3 hours away. I grew up spending weekends there, and think nothing about the 3 hour drive. Growing up, I loved watching my dad ski, and throw spray. I know it's not the most efficient way to ski, but him and others from his generation skied back foot heavy, and to a young kid, it was pretty cool. To this day, seeing the distant spray from someone on the lake skiing makes me want to put the boat down and ski.

This past year I bought a 97 SN, and while I take it to the lake with me, we do a lot of skiing locally on the Rock River with it. Along with another co-worker that has an older MC, we've gotten a few more guys into skiing to the point where they've bought slalom skis of their own. There's also a larger group that likes to come along and ski on a combo set while enjoying an evening on the water. We usually don't ski the course, and most often spend time chilling on the boat having a beer or two between sets. Many people would rather just go to the bar with a big group and hang out vs. heading out to ski, but when you couple skiing with kicking back and having a beer, a lot of "on the fence" people really enjoy it. (Disclaimer - we're not drinking excessively on the water, just having a few). Pretty sure this is why pontoons boats are becoming more and more popular, as you can slap the bar/party with a big group right on the water. I'm not sure any of these people are running out to buy boats at this point, but I wouldn't have done it either after skiing a year. Folks need access to it, even just a few times a year, for a while to get the bug.

[skierjp]

@LeonL yeah but Florida has more ski schools then probably all the other states combined. It's no problem finding someplace to ski here in Florida! It will probably cost you $75 for a set.

[gsm_peter]

@DaveD Yes. Sweden is singlar size as CA.

In Stockholm we start ski end April in Freezing temp. 10C in end May. 18C end June. 22C best case 25C in July. Slowly colder type 10C end September.

To dark early November.

 

Why not do the Stockholm your?

Type 8 clubs within 2.5 hours....

Just for comparison.. 1000 usd will cover yearly fees for type 7 clubs.

[BraceMaker]

@AdamCord not too much different -

 

You consider the biggest problems people discuss about having guests on their lake.

 

Liability

Fuel Costs

Boat wear and tear

Limited availability - lets face it most everyone on here probably skis during the same ~3 hours of the day.

 

But what if you could;

A - have liability insurance for any ride booked through the app.

B - Track fuel costs/rider time allotment through the app (finished your set and the driver ticks the box and you get a paypal draw for 27.31 instead of 20 even because heck you took longer sitting in the water between passes.

C - Have meaningful $$$ sitting in an account to pay for upkeep/replacement on the boat

D - Get riders who'd use the other day time hours.

 

Win win?