Bigger Guys Skiing Better Behind Zero Off?

[ghutch]

Back when ZO came out I was skiing 22 off 34 mph and getting into 28. 6' 3" 215lbs. ZO would launch me through the wakes and I could not maintain good body position. Hooking up out of the turn you could really hear the engine racing. Got very disgusted with ZO and hated it. Now obviously it has greatly improved and I'm skiing better than ever, (B2) setting, occasionally running 35 and starting into 38. I really can't tell much difference from PP to ZO now as I get to ski with both systems. Just wondering if there are any other big guys out there with the same experience?

[Orlando76]

6’1 and 185 (was 200 when I started skiing regularly) and not a great skier by any means. Could run confident and in good position and gain a whole pass with my PP classic and still be in solid legit times on a surveyed course. Same course, same driver but older version ZO on ‘07 SN and I was feeling just like you described and losing a whole pass. Newer ZO boats weren’t such a problem. When I’d mention it to my ski partners it was “nothing wrong with the boat, you’re just a poor skier”. Finally I gave up and left my gear at the dock and never went back.

[ghutch]

@Orlando76 I gave it up after skiing in an INT tournament and not running a pass @ 22. My fairly easy opener at that time. Didn't know why and thought my skiing was just crap. Really frustrated and quit for about 2 months. Finally figured out it was ZO and my poor position. ZO has come a looong way so give it another shot. Too fun a sport to give up on.

[jimski]

I didn't think I was s bigger guy but at 190 lb I guess I am

How do I upgrade my 2011 200 with the new version and is it worth it ?

You have me thinking now...

[LeonL]

@jimski if I understand correctly you must have a single puck system. Then you get the new version from ZO and install rev S just like any previous upgrade. With a 2011 you probably upgraded from Q to R, so same process.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

The plus setting is definitely better for heavier and stronger pulling skiers. To upgrade from the old dual puck system you will need an adapter kit which is $500. I just upgraded mine and it was well worth it.

[ghutch]

The newer systems definitely are better and don't punish you near like they did. Listen to the engine in older systems and you can hear them really rev up when the skier loads it.

[jjackkrash]

I just ordered the harness kit and software upgrade; just a hair over $300 for both if you have a singe puck.

[A_B]

I have a 2007 SN with Dual Puck and like A1+.

Run B2 on my friend’s Single Puck 5.3.

I am probably the heaviest skier on BOS, or darn close.

[blakeyates]

We’ll have more “Heavy Weights” trying Plus today behind Rev S (200 SN w/6.2). Maybe we can come back with more positive feedback.

[andjules]

I'm only 175-180 (on a 5'7" frame) and I'm noticing a difference too.

At least I think I am... the obvious factor that's difficult for any of us to isolate is how with each successive time on ZO, are we — consciously or sub-consciously — learning to adjust to it.

I think the Nautique I usually ski behind is a 2014. A couple of weeks ago I had a run behind a 2019 and it seemed much softer. A few years back I took a bunch of sets behind a 2012 and it seemed a lot harsher than what I was used to. Granted, each of those boats were on different lakes with different water.

[LeonL]

@jjackkrash are you saying that if you already have a single puck system you need additional hardware? I was under the impression that all that was needed was a software upgrade to S. Upgrades used to be free, but now cost, how much? I heard $50.

[ski6jones]

@Bruce_Butterfield aside from having the new Plus setting available did you note any other changes to the pull after upgrading to the single puck? Could you tell the diff between dual and single puck on your boat?

[jjackkrash]

@leonL you need access to: (1) E2046002A = $179.00 – ECOM CAN/USB adapter; and (2) E1557500 = $70.80 – Marine Harness to upgrade the software. The software upgrade is $50. Your dealer probably has the cables. I just bought them to have them going forward.

[LeonL]

@jjackkrash oh, I forgot about the upgrade cable.

[thager]

6ft 190. I tried plus last night for the first time ever. Felt pretty good however, I had my first OTF ejection in 30+ years.

[A_B]

I had an OTF like that going to the 5.2 Songle Puck using A1+. I went to B2 and that seemed to be more in sync with my 07 Excalibur on A1+.

 

You get a slightly faster gate on the +, but that’s my strong side lean so I use that to my advantage. Not sure it would work the same for LFF.

[Drago]

.75% why bother? That’s 1/4 of a mph (34 vs 34.2)

[A_B]

It is all about timing on where the skier pulls, lets off and hooks up. There is not a standard setting for all. Trial and error to figure out what works best.

[LeonL]

It been that way since back in PP days. It had a "gate up speed". Don't know the % however.

[jjackkrash]

I just installed the update. The screen said the reprogramming was a success, so it sounds like I didn't brick the whole system. :smile: Hopefully I'll get to try it out tomorrow.

[A_B]

@thager drop a letter and/or number if you try plus settings. So B2 goes to A1+.

I think I was C1 originally years ago and didn’t like C1+ but A1+ got me in sync better.

 

[thager]

@A_B I will give that a try. C2+ was def too much!

[A_B]

My daughters boyfriend is a newbie and he is 6’4” around 195 and he likes A1+ over anything else we have tried. He runs 15@36.

[jjackkrash]

I am 5'10" and 210--stocky or fat depending on who you ask--and usually ski B2 (34mph). Am I hearing right that I want to try a different letter with the new plus setting?

[jjackkrash]

B2+ feels like a whole different boat. Wow. Me likes.

[Orlando76]

I can’t get these recent ZO topics out of my mind. Did I dream this up or did I read somewhere trick mode on older ZO systems would’ve be a little less punishing for slalom skiing?

[Fatroll]

I'm 5'11" 230 lbs. I definitely muscle the pull coming out of the turn. A friend suggested C2. It has made a huge difference for me. If I have a clean turn and and set up for the pull, the boat whips me across the wake with minimal effort, especially as the rope gets shorter.

[The_MS]

Why not make it feel good for everyone? Why just big guys?

 

ZERO OFF SUCKS

[thager]

@MS What does that bottom part of your last post say, right above Deanoski's insightful?

[Chef23]

I don't think I have tried the + settings yet. I am 6' 200 lbs but have been told that I am fairly light on the boat for a guy my size. I was always an A2 guy mostly because I didn't get many sets behind ZO. This year my buddy has been randomly trying different settings for me on my easier passes and I have been skiing more on C1 or C2 I forget exactly which. Some settings just felt bad right away.

 

The thing I am not 100% certain on is how that will translate to my harder passes but I likely won't ski any of them until next year.

[TEL]

I was testing skies the past few weeks, same boat and course I had settled on A2. On one of the skies i kept fall on the tall B2 fixed my falling back. Never had i felt the difference as dramatic as on that ski.

[The_MS]

@thager

Zero off SUCKS?

[thager]

Shut up and Ski!

[The_MS]

Just trying to make things better for my fellow ballers.

@zero-off You know it’s not illegal to let my boat give me a 16.98 once in awhile.

@perfect-pass would give me a 16.98 instead of pounding a 16.95 out of me if I pull a little harder then normal.

It can be done but YOU DONT CARE about me

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@ms try practice mode at 34.1 if you want a16.98. And I’ll bet a bottle of scotch it won’t make any difference.

 

Either quit your whining or try plus mode.

[Sethro]

I used to struggle with ZO at 6’5” 225ish pounds. I’ve found C2 this year, and dare I say enjoy the ZO pulls over the perfect pass pulls now.

[The_MS]

@Bruce_Butterfield they have the ability to make it feel nice and they don’t. I can handle a 95 but how about a smooth 95? The rules do allow for some tollarance so why the pull punishment if I run into a problem. Make it catch up over the remainder of the course and not by the next ball.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@ms I agree with you. What I was poking at is the very common misconception that the time is associated with the quality of the pull. A “good time” has virtually nothing to do with how good the pull is. A 17.00 vs 16.95 is minuscule compared with changing even 1 letter or number.

 

Plus mode is an improvement over the other settings. At least it’s a small step in the right direction.

[Chef23]

@Bruce_Butterfield what is the difference in the plus settings? Are they only good for larger skiers? If there is somewhere else that covers all this and you could direct me to that I would appreciate it.

[storm34]

Some good info on ZO settings in this USA Waterski Presentation (takes a while to download)

 

Helpful screen shots from above presentation

 

 

Waterski Mag ZO Settings

[The_MS]

The basis of the chart is correct but B1 on a 2018 CC will feel like C1 on the 2018 MC or even a different size engine in CC

[The_MS]

That chart needs to be boat by boat and engine by engine or it no good. The only true way to know boat to boat is trial and error

[Chef23]

@scotchipman thanks. I have been skiing C1 lately after always having been an A2 guy. Not very difficult passes for me but it feels pretty good.

[Chef23]

I was familiar with the shape of the curves above and when they hit the skier but not about what the + setting does. I may have to try it.

[Chef23]

@scotchipman I think that @MS disagrees with pretty much everything connected to ZO.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@Chef23 the plus mode is a slight modification to trick mode. The result is that the throttle application is much more in sync with the skier. The throttle is more aggressive, but also comes off much faster so the boat is not running away when the skier is tring to advance on the boat.

 

I think stronger pulling skiers will benefit more, but any skier that puts much load on the boat will like it. My son is 150 lbs and has been liking B2+.

[The_MS]

@scotchipman I agree with the 1-2-3 and the amount of time the rpm swings but the ABC timing as to when it hits you is an unknown. The 5.3 Nautique at B1 will hit me where A1 hits me on the MC. You can count on the feel of 1-2-3 but not the pick up point of A-B-C

[Orlando76]

It also helps if the guys in the boat don’t change the settings on you without letting you know. Let the skier decide.

[jjackkrash]

I am a 210lbs. yoker. I have only tried the new + setting on rev S with B2, but so far I like it. I don't feel like the boat is running down course on me as much as the old B2 did when I bobbled or didn't have the best turn, especially on my offside.