Baller_ lpskier Posted October 17, 2018 Baller_ Share Posted October 17, 2018 What if one ball was on the left rather than the right. Who would get the advantage, righties or lefties, and why? Lpskier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ScottScott Posted October 17, 2018 Baller Share Posted October 17, 2018 I remember this coming up on a thread before. Someone mentioned that Andy Mapple skied a site that at least had balls on both sides so you could run it with odd on left. He ran it backwards and commented that it was easier. I used to think that being left foot forward, the odd balls on the right helped me as I really just have 2 offside turns. But as I focus more and more on gates I wonder if my gate would be better if it was an on-side cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Bruce_Butterfield Posted October 17, 2018 Baller_ Share Posted October 17, 2018 Think about the percentage of LFF vs RFF skiers. It’s probably on the neighborhood of 30% Then remember there was about a 10 year stretch that 3 out of the 4 men who had run 41 in a record tournament were LFF and I think you have your answer on which FF has the advantage. If it was easy, they would call it Wakeboarding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Chef23 Posted October 17, 2018 Baller Share Posted October 17, 2018 I have always thought LFF was an advantage. You have 3 real on side turns and the pull to 6 ball is your strong pull. You don’t really need a strong turn or pull out of 6 most times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Drago Posted October 17, 2018 Baller Share Posted October 17, 2018 I still think we should have 5-buoy courses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted October 17, 2018 Administrators Share Posted October 17, 2018 my theory is that most RFF skiers have a better On Side until they run (approximately) 32 off @ 36 or 35 @ 34. At that point most (RFF skiers) have a better Off Side. Maybe it is because of all the time spent working on gates and one at a skiers hardest pass. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jayski Posted October 17, 2018 Baller Share Posted October 17, 2018 @Horton I think that applies to lefties also, I know personally my offside turn is money, where previously it was opposite... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Than_Bogan Posted October 17, 2018 Baller Share Posted October 17, 2018 As a RFF skier, I cannot at all imagine how anyone can take their off-side pull through the gate. If there is some theoretical advantage for me to having 1-ball on the left, it would take me years to see it. I've never seen any compelling evidence that there was any advantage either way. @Bruce_Butterfield You know better than to claim that minuscule sample size means anything! Replace just one of those guys with a RFF and suddenly it's 50/50. EDIT: Actually I'm the one not paying full attention. You're referring to the ratio of the pool vs. the ratio of the record holders. Ok, that's not completely silly. But I think 4 skiers in one selected time window is still way too few to draw any conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted October 17, 2018 Administrators Share Posted October 17, 2018 @Than_Bogan I think LFF gate is likely harder but if you nailed it I think it might be better. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Than_Bogan Posted October 17, 2018 Baller Share Posted October 17, 2018 @Horton Fair enough. But any time my path between 1 and 2 miraculously does not suck, I typically run the pass. One way or another, you've got to survive one off-side pull to establish the rhythm that allows success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Bruce_Butterfield Posted October 17, 2018 Baller_ Share Posted October 17, 2018 @Than_Bogan yes it’s a small sample, that taken by itself is hard to draw any conclusions. However when considering that a LFF skier essentially has 3 strong side turns vs. 2 for a RFF skier that is further supporting evidence. Another observation, after watching hundreds of skiers across the ability spectrum from the boat, lefties consistently turn 1 ball tighter and in better body position than righties - even with the weak side gate. If it was easy, they would call it Wakeboarding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Than_Bogan Posted October 17, 2018 Baller Share Posted October 17, 2018 Ok, that makes sense. But I still disagree. I think the 0-ball turn is extremely important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted October 17, 2018 Administrators Share Posted October 17, 2018 @Bruce_Butterfield it's my opinion that a really good on side turn at Shortline requires even more skill than an offside turn so I sort of disagree until skiers are really Pro level Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bishop8950 Posted October 17, 2018 Baller Share Posted October 17, 2018 I would love to try it. Maybe I will get around to it one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ lpskier Posted October 18, 2018 Author Baller_ Share Posted October 18, 2018 @bishop8950 Just pull out on the right and use one ball as zero. Lpskier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Bruce_Butterfield Posted October 18, 2018 Baller_ Share Posted October 18, 2018 @Than_Bogan 0 ball turn is more important for RFF than lefties. If you get a good 1 ball, it doesn't matter 1 iota if you got a crappy 0 ball. One reason I kinda agree with you is that RFF skiers tend to overdo the gates. One of my bad habits it to ramp it up to 11 at the gates as the rope gets shorter. A good 0 ball "should" help get a smooth gate without going to 11. Lefties are incapable of going to 11 on the gates the same way righties are incapable of 11 from 1 to 2. If it was easy, they would call it Wakeboarding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Drago Posted October 18, 2018 Baller Share Posted October 18, 2018 @Bruce_Butterfield I have been known to go to 11, LFF. maybe 11 1/2 . I think the leftie has to be more accurate with timing , righties can do whatever, but it still effects the outcome off of 1. Probably easier for a leftie to get 2 (JR) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ozski Posted October 18, 2018 Baller Share Posted October 18, 2018 I don't agree that Asher or Fred Winter or Nate for example have weaker onside turns but there may be other examples out there that illustrate a toe side turn becoming "better" but you would need to define better. Under real pressure I still think most skiers would opt for heel side if their life depended on it, actual data on where high end skiers make their first big tournament mistake would be interesting. There is a reason why heel side is called the onside and I don't think that has changed. As a lefty the thought of an offside at 5 ball would keep me awake at night :smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bishop8950 Posted October 18, 2018 Baller Share Posted October 18, 2018 @lpskier need gates for the full effect. I would drop in 6 extra balls and go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted October 18, 2018 Administrators Share Posted October 18, 2018 @ozski if you're talking about the top 10 skiers in the world their skills are at a different level. What I'm saying is a large percentage of skiers that are in the upper 20% of the sport but not super elite have more consistent off-site turns. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveLemons Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 If they changed the course I would be screwed. As a RFF skier my onside sucks ass at 35 and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MISkier Posted October 18, 2018 Baller_ Share Posted October 18, 2018 @DaveLemons, have you tried to put an offset in your fin depth to revive that onside turn? Just a small washer under the fin block on the opposite side (right side of ski for LFF, left side of ski for RFF) and the onside works better. The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ lpskier Posted October 19, 2018 Author Baller_ Share Posted October 19, 2018 If you could start from either direction, after say five years of adjustment time, what percentage of skiers would opt to start with one ball on the left? Lpskier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Chef23 Posted October 19, 2018 Baller Share Posted October 19, 2018 I can't believe that Lucky doesn't have a course set up like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Drago Posted October 19, 2018 Baller Share Posted October 19, 2018 @lpskier of current skiers, 1% New skiers, 50% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ozski Posted October 20, 2018 Baller Share Posted October 20, 2018 @Horton if their is data that supports your assumption I wonder how/if modern ski design contributes. Also the fact that an offside turn often has the benefit of coming off an onside turn which can often mean more time and space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted October 21, 2018 Administrators Share Posted October 21, 2018 @ozski there is no data. only speculation. I do agree that part of what makes the onside turn hard is the exit from offside and the wake crossing heading towards onside. Sort of the inverse of the way you stated it above. Speaking personally as a right foot forward skier my two four six suffers because of errors I make right after the second wake. These errors are the result of my stance leaving offside. As far as ski design goes, there are definitely skis which make on side way better but predominantly skis on the market today are either more balanced or slightly more offside oriented (in my opinion). The argument could also be made that you can greatly bias a ski from onside offside with fin settings. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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