Too good a ski for me?

[Mastercrafter]

Hi all, first post.

 

I’m sitting at the airport after 5 sets this weekend with Todd Ristorcelli. Besides the fact that I can’t move my arms, it was an awesome weekend. Great to be behind a boat after 5 months of snow in Michigan.

 

Anyways. I’m new to slalom. Started Spring 2019. In July ‘19 I joined a ski club and with a lot of appreciated instruction, I got around 6 at -15/28.6 last October. Slow and ugly, but I did it!

 

I started last year on an EP Comp 1 and was told that it’s a slightly dated ski. (Lol) Bought a new Connelly V, non carbon.. felt like a race car. Bought an unknown year HO CX Cross, carbon, loved it. Felt fast and agile. Put the Connelly aside.

 

This month I was lent/given a 2018 Vapor Pro Build and I was super excited to get to Florida and try it. I thought it was my dream ski.. the best, right? However, I felt horrible on it. Part of it was cramming 5 sets into two days, I was getting tired fast. Regardless, it seemed hard to ski. Unstable, if I had to pick one word. I felt bad in the turns especially. I also felt uncomfortable during the pull-out and coast, of all things, before starting the course. I was skiing the course at 28.6 and open water at 30mph.

 

Now, of course, I’m the problem, I’m not a good skier. Form and technique have a long long ways to go. I know that. But, what I’m thinking: this ski is built for a better skier? Right? It’s probably to big of a jump for me. I’m skiing under 30 and it’s built for 34. It’s narrow and light... I’m not.. ha! I’m not expecting the ski to make me better, but is the better ski making me worse, and learning harder?

 

Should I go back to the wide, heavy Connelly V? Use the HO CX some more? Fight the Vapor and stop complaining?

 

Thanks all, thoughts and advice welcome

 

 

[igkya]

Radar Senate probably the alloy, but if coin isn't an issue, go with the Lithium.

[Mastercrafter]

While I appreciate the suggestion, is the .2” increase in width going to change a lot for me? Am I better off on a Senate than a Vapor, or do I just need to learn to ski?

[BraceMaker]

First but a now ski not a later ski. Height and weight? Second summer is coming get back in it ASAP.

[Than_Bogan]

0.2" wider is very different. I don't know those skis well enough to make a specific suggestion, but do not consider those widths to be similar.

[Mastercrafter]

I’m 5’8 and 170 lbs. All skis have been 67”. I’m okay with “downgrading” .. I just want to make sure that’s the right move for the time being.

[riplash]

Hey Mastercrafter,

I think all of the skis you mentioned and have will work for you. You just need to pick one of them to do a majority of your skiing on. And work on setting up whatever ski you choose to work for you. In my opinion, setting the ski up for you is way more important than all the differences in the course skis you mentioned. Skiing on a course ski that isn't properly set up is just terrible.

 

Just my opinion.

Ryan "Rip" Lash

[teammalibu]

@Mastercrafter What did Todd tell you?

[Mastercrafter]

TeamMalibu, I think Todd was just stunned at my inability to ski, lol.

 

He agreed that the Vapor would not feel as stable as a less-serious course ski. He didn’t sit me down and tell me to get a different ski, I’m not sure if he was thinking it or not. I think after I process the weekend, I will reach out and see what he says after watching me. I think we kind of took what was available and tried to make do for the time we had.

 

Most of what we worked on this weekend was the pull out and coast. I was doing it way wrong, and he wanted to start there and not skip over it.

[aupatking]

I’m with Mike, what did Todd say? From my experience with the Radar Vapor, it really sounds like it’s not set up correctly. You said it’s a 2018 Vapor, what length is the ski and what is the measurement from the heel of the front boot to the tail?

All of the skis you mentioned are good skis, well, maybe not the EP.

At the end of the day, we are all deficient in some area of our skiing, but if your ski is set up wrong, a good ski is about as good as that old EP. Get one of those skis set up to good stock numbers and work on you.

28.6 may be a bit slow for that Vapor, but I couldn’t say. How does it feel @ 30mph?

[Mastercrafter]

Tried some open water at 30 today, the second day, but I was kind of falling apart. Sore muscles were letting me get pulled out of position more than normal and I know it. The ski definitely felt more alive at 30, I could tell it wanted more speed.

 

Hopefully Todd might spend a few on the phone with me in the next few days where I can ask some questions and where to go from here.

 

I’m actually heading back to Florida in two weeks to ski with Tgas and spend a day with Freddy at the Boarding School. I think right off the bat, I’ll concentrate on ski setup and figure out if there’s a problem there. One of the good guys at Action set

up the fin on the Vapor for me (67” by the way), but I threw the boots on “in the middle” and ran it. I’m sure that was a mistake, but I didn’t know better.

 

I can also demo skis in two weeks from Performance Ski and Surf. Maybe it’s worth bringing a Senate or similar out for a spin.

[Mastercrafter]

I should add, I do about equal open water and course skiing. My “goal” is to get better at the course but I can’t discount the good times with friends throwing water walls on the lake.

[escmanaze]

Yes the .2" difference between the senate and the vapor can make a very big difference. I had at one point similar years (2012 & 2013) of Vice and senate, so again, just a 0.2" difference. But it was definitely a big difference for me and I would say it in a way not that the vice needed a better skier than me, but it certainly needed a "stronger" skier than me. I'm back on a senate now, 2018 lithium and that is better for me and my levels (most commonly 30 & 32 mph but sometimes down to 28 and sometimes up to 34.)

 

I would just say that if you are skiing the best on the CX, then stick with it until you find a ski you like better. I'm learning that, at least for me, I can tell pretty quickly if I like a certain ski more than my old one, so I'm not sure there's much use or wisdom in deciding to "fight the vapor and stop complaining."

[Jordan]

A couple of points. You shouldn't just "throw the boots in the middle" , you need to get the boots in the right place. High end skis are generally more sensitive to set up.

Also, a 67 might be a little big for you. My son weighs the same as you (and taller) and both Jmac and Brooks suggested the 66 in a 2018 vapor pro build.

 

[TallSkinnyGuy]

The high end skis like the Vapor are not going to feel as stable as the mid-range skis like the Connelly V or HO CX regardless of the setup in my experience. To someone at your level the "unstable" feeling you got from the Vapor was probably mostly due to its nimbleness, which is a great benefit when you can ski at a higher level. You could advance a lot before the V or CX would be not enough ski for you and the added stability they provide could be very beneficial to your skill development in the early stages of learning.

[jhughes]

The Vapor is an extremely stable ski and I've seen it work very well for skiers at your level. High end skis are not by nature "unstable", I feel like that's something that we have to stop saying around here, it's ridiculous.

 

Make sure the ski is set up correctly, focusing on binding position and stick with it, it's a fine ski for all levels. Seriously.

[Greg Banish]

At 28mph, your narrow ski is more "IN" the water than "ON" the water. It's not doing you any favors operating in the wrong position, creating drag where it isn't designed to.

 

I usually ski 32mph, and going down to 30mph on my Connelly GT (narrow, like your Vapor) makes it feel very sluggish and "draggy" to me compared to my older Carbon V (wider) at that speed. The reality is that the narrow ski IS a rocket, but not at such slow boat speeds. With less surface area in the water, they also feel unstable at slow speeds, similar to what you feel as you're getting pulled up to speed from a deep water start.

 

Until you're ready to go 30+mph, I would bet any pro would recommend the wider (but still shaped) skis, even in the course for you.

[jepski]

It's tough to make an assessment after a winter layoff and then skiing 5 sets in FL. I know b/c I do it too. I picked up an expensive handle on my last trip, a handle that everyone raves about. I struggled with it, finally switched back to my old handle and all was good. Lesson learned: I count my FL trips as "just thankful to be on the water" and see that my (limited) winter conditioning is paying off. My recommendation is take the ski that you've had your best sets on to FL. Evaluate skis this summer once you're back in "form".

[Jmoski]

I have a vapor and a senate, the vapor is in storage as I’m running 30-32mph and the senate works great for these speeds. IMHO the vapor doesn’t really come alive until 34mph.

 

Once I work up to skiing 34mph consistently, I will switch back.

 

Given I have watched a pro run the course at 18mph on a 1” x 6” plank with no bindings, I had to accept the reality that all of my issues were lack of proper position and technique!

[Mick04]

^What the previous 3 posters said^.

How about take your current favorite ski. When you are at the Boarding School, if things are coming together, demo a Senate for a set. They are a Radar dealer. Have them set it up.

[34mph]

Senate Lith or Pro and don't look back... Have one its a great ski and will help you progress!

[MI3Eventer]

@Mastercrafter what club are you a member of? Have you been skiing any tournaments in Michigan? Always a good way to get more advice/coaching!

[Mastercrafter]

@MI3Eventer , I joined Dixboro Ski Club last July. The people there coached me through the course by October, but I can't get through above 28.6 yet. I'll do some tournaments for kicks if I can get to 34!

 

[savaiusini]

If you liked your CX, you should stick with it. Or try a Syndicate/Carbon Omni. These skis are designed to pull double duty in the course and open water. Way more efficient width for speeds 34mph and below. You are more than likely not doing yourself any favors by trying to wrestle with a ski that is made for 34-36mph. The 0.2" extra width helps by offsetting the loss of lift you are experiencing on the narrower ski. It allows you to focus more on a few fundamentals rather than the additional problems of possibly being on a ski that has too little surface area for your speed and weight. CX and Omni will be great skis for you until you get to around 34mph, 28 off.

 

We offer a factory demo program if you want to try something new and there is no obligation.

[RichardDoane]

@Mastercrafter one of the best ways to improve is to ski with people better than yourself. Don’t wait for 34 mph, get involved early with some coaching and you’ll shorten the learning curve. And +1 on the wider ski for better control/stability at the lower speeds.

[MI3Eventer]

@Mastercrafter nonsense, I'm still barely getting into 30 MPH, but try and ski every tournament I can. If you ski "novice" at Michigan tournaments you will be guaranteed 4 passes anyway! Go for the environment, sweet boats, and start becoming a judge!