Who has experienced pre-release on hardshell Reflex, Syndicate, Edge style bindings?

[ISP6ball]

For those that have experienced a pre-release I would be curious if you thought it was operator error, improperly adjusted release, or equipment failure.

[Kelvin]

Personally, I've never had a pre-release. I have seen others that pre-released. When looking at their setup, it was obvious that the release mechanism wasn't adjusted correctly. The release stirrup needs to be snug against the back of the boot. If there is significant play, it will pre-release.

[z_skier]

I've had 1 pre-release during the first set on the reflex. It was a rough crash coming just after I got through the wakes (OTF). I immediately tightened it, from the recommended 5 to just above a 6. I have not had any pre-releases since and don't plan to. *Knocks on wood

[jedgell]

Had a pre-release on Reflex through the wakes. Wasn't fun, spent the evening in the ER. Face planted so hard it ruptured a bunch of blood vessels in my eyes and tore the outer layer of my eyes. It was probably a set-up issue.

[Stefan]

Free skied in April at 28 and 32 off. When we put the course in I lengthened to 22 off and larger wake. Reflex front pre-released in the first gate and I stretched myself in the fall and ruptured one of the front leg hamstring muscles. Rehab for 6 weeks until I could ski again. I had set the Reflex 840 orange binding to my recommended setting according to the manual which was 4,0. I now run it at 5,5 and haven't had any pre-release since. It has released when it should the couple of times I have crashed. I'm 165lbs. My set-up is snug, so that was not the problem. The manual recommends to low settings, that's the general opinion my Reflex ski buddies have.

[ForrestGump]

If it's releasing at your recommended setting, I would wonder if the heel block is in correct place. or that the release mechanism is in the correct holes in the plate for your size binding shell.

[Stefan]

@ForrestGump Everything is correct set up, have used different model Reflex bindings since 1998... With my new binding for the year, Reflex 5 with the 840 orange release, I decided to follow the manuals recommended setting which was a mistake. As I wrote above, since increasing the setting from 4 to 5.5, I've had no pre-release and releases when appropriate.

[ForrestGump]

Have you measured the height of the heel block on the shell to make sure it's in the correct place, though. Too low and it'll prelease. I had one that was too low from the factory way back when.

[Stefan]

@ForrestGump it's in the right place, I have two sets of Reflex 5 bindings and the height is the same on both boots. Reflex recommend to low setting, and now when I increased tension binding works as it should. I should have done the simple release test @Horton done a video off, then my injury would not have happened.

[Cam]

In 20 years of use I have had 4 pre releases, 2 when the legs broke on 404's, 1 when a spring broke on a 750 and one due to wear and tear on a 750.

They all hurt but luckily had no serious injuries

Sticking with Reflex but going to check the release more often.

[brettmainer]

Once a week or so, to check my release, I purposely take a relatively low speed twisting out the front “fall” as I am gliding back into the dock. Seems like every 6 months, it is a little loose (plastic wear probably) and I give it 1/8 to 1/4 turn to tighten. After 5 years, I didn’t want to tempt fate and replaced the release.

 

7 years now in a Reflex front, the first 6 on a soft rubber rear and the last year an R style, and the Reflex has never pre-released and always released when I needed it to.

[BraceMaker]

I had an early reflex shell 404 - my wife has it on her trick ski now. I was getting pre-releases which I believe are due to flexibility in the aluminum plate which sort of changes depending on exactly which row of holes the horseshoe and releases needed to be in for your shell size.

 

Injuries were all lacerations.

[aupatking]

Every time I have used my Reflex/Silvretta release correctly, it has worked correctly.

[Horton]

If you follow the instructions in this video I do not see how you can get hurt from Pre-release or Late-release. If you understand your release system and you will be safer than most skiers.

 

[Horton]

If you so not trust me here is Mapple's version.

 

[teammalibu]

If not setup or maintained correctly you can have a pre release like the one i had at cottonwood years ago! Joe Darwin spun the boat around and his daughter was already on the platform screaming call 911, call 911! That being said i wouldnt swap my reflex for any other binding.

[Horton]

@teammalibu that is crap. Everyone knows Darwin staged it and was trying to kill you.

[Onside135]

I had a pre-release that could have been prevented. Ultimately found that the release screws had been getting looser to the point that the release had a lot of slop in it. Now I inspect them regularly.

[teammalibu]

@Horton actually it was all your fault, it was right after i got home from the ski test out in Bako, first set after i got home to cottonwood i set my ski back up and grabbed the wrong release i grabbed JDs daughter Carolines release and went out and almost ended my ski career. She weighed about 80 lbs. and lets just say i weighed about 100 lbs more then that. Came out of one ball and released at the wake after about 5 flips and ten feet of cattails Emily thought i was dead for sure! You dont forget those kinds of lessons!

[teammalibu]

The other really bad unexpected release happened when the weld on the 404 let go!

If you are still using the old welded release take a good look at it. I have seen several break and its never pretty

[Horton]

@teammalibu ok. You are right. I was trying to kill you. Karen asked me to do it.

[aupatking]

I think it’s 3 key components

1. Understanding the mechanism and it’s components function

2. Dry land testing until you are 100% confident

3. Checking the whole system regularly

[aupatking]

Also, if you are going to modify your boot (the cause of my only pre releases, which was 100% my fault) go back to the list above and put extreme emphasis on the dry land testing

[skialex]

No prereleases but I have broke the legs of 3 silvretta 404 in the past, first time over 10 years ago, I had a wipe out, no injury,next two times noticed it and stoped in time. Went with the 400 6 years ago, tension is at 4.5, boot clips on with just one finger, it releases when it should, dry test works fine and have not released since a year and a half. I have a stash of 400s.

Now the arms of the 840 are bend similarly like the 400/404 and I would choose this over the 750 that I was not a big fun of.

[chris55]

I had a pre-release twice the same morning, the spring was too loose. Now I check at least 3 times a year.

[Jmoski]

Reflex - yes, Syndicate - no. My Reflex pre-release happened because the bolts under the plate holding the toe loop in place had come loose after a season of use, not sure if that was an anomaly but speaks to the importance of maintaining it.

 

The syndicate setup allows you to confirm the toe loop bolts are tight without having to take the plate off the ski.

[Teddy]

Reflex which appeared to be a bad spring. Replaced the heel piece and never had a problem after that.

 

[Horton]

bump for @dave2ball

[Deanoski]

after 14 years of using reflex I had a prerelease sent me into slack line handle guard saved my life the binding was dock tested in the spring set on 5.5 on the new 850 heel release never had a problem with 404 400,or the 750 just the 850

 

not sure if im going to use a reflex style release again Maybe go to FM or a T factor

[Chef23]

I have not had one but have witnessed couple. The ones I saw were on velcro not a mechanical release like a Reflex.

[Southside_Mike]

First pre-release today (I'd replied to the poll previously). Have used Reflex binding for 3 seasons and as I'm a 15 off skier, I've had it set pretty light (just below 4). I've been working on my gate this year and going quite a bit harder into centre line. Today it pre-released at the first wake and my face hit the ski. It was quite choppy so that might have contributed. I've checked the mechanism and I can't see anything wrong. I've tightened it just a bit and went back out after the bleeding stopped and ran a few passes without problems.

 

 

 

[Rednucleus]

@Southside_Mike Need to change your handle to Southside Warrior

[Stevie Boy]

I had several Pre-Releases, so I went back to TFactor

I have put his on another Thread , regards Reflex Hard Shell, a ski buddy showed me how easy it is to inadvertently get the Achille protection strap, between the boot and the mechanism,this will pre-release when you flex forward, keep the strap clear when you click in by flexing your foot forward.

[teammalibu]

Had one screw on the release hinge fall out yesterday! Felt something funny at 3 ball and when I dropped at the end of the lake it released!

Could have been worse. I was surprised because I had checked that a few sets ago!

So I guess I need to check my shit more often! Not really sure if the nut came off or if the screw broke!

[Deanoski]

@teammalibu you are a lucky man!

[teammalibu]

@Deanoski mostly due to the fact that I am so balanced on the ski and my catlike reflexes! Ha

[Deanoski]

@Gloerson Thats the heel that pre released on me in july put me in ICU and a neck brace I dont have much confidence in that new heel

[jipster43]

The only thing I check with my Radars is the smell.

[gregy]

I've had problems with pre-release when putting my bindings on skis to try out. I always do a test release now when switching my bindings. Reflex supershells.

[GamecockSkier]

I had a pre-release at 32off with my Fogman setup going across the wake... mild concussion but other than that ok.

[rrskier]

Completing 4th season on Reflex System. When first received I used red loctite on all screws thru plate. Screws are checked when remounting to ski and have never loosened. After each season binding is removed and release tension screw loosened three turns. Every spring 750 is checked and tightened 3 turns (setting is 5.5). Then I screw binding plate to wood 2 X 12 with screws and fender washers. I place foot in boot and boot in binding and release 5 - 6 times. Having confidence system is correct binding is then placed onto ski. Procedure go back to testing snow skis bindings, but snow ski bindings rear release use four screws not the two on waterskis. I don't like putting that much pressure on waterski screw inserts.

[DavidN]

Not a pre-release, but I figured today why my skiing sucked the last week. :D

 

 

I usually leave the liner in the boot when I take it off, so I didn’t noticed the broken rivet.

For some reason I took the liner out today and the cuff came completely apart on one side.

New boot on order, guess I’ll have a couple days off now.

[hammerski]

I’ve had more than a few pre releases on powershells. Even tho I replaced the interlock frequently. One gave me a mild concussion. Nothing worse than committing to your lean through the wake and feel the front binding separate!! Switched to the Goode reflex and no pre release, just when needed. Very interested in the new reflex ?

[teammalibu]

@DavidN been there done that

[mmosley899]

@DavidN those boots come with very rust/corrosion prone hardware, you should always remove your liners so they and the boot can dry out between ski sessions, especially in the water of Florida lakes which is more corrosive than most. You can repair that boot with new cuff bolts from an in-line skate shop, check online shops.

[DavidN]

Thanks @mmosley899 good point(s)! ?

[HMan66]

Just installed a Reflex with the 840 release. I'm 225# and the manual calls for a tension of 5. When I did the dry land release test, at 4 it wouldn't release. I kept backing it off 1/4 turn until it would release. It's now between 3 and 4. Does that seem right? I'm currently a 28mph/15 off skier.

[Deanoski]

@HMan66 you need to recheck that does not seam correct im 175 and skied that heel at 5.5 and could dock test it the test should be an abrupt up and forward pull with your foot. not just pull on it with your leg to make it release.

[LOTW]

I can’t make mine release on the dock but they do release on the water when needed.

[Alberto Soares]

Never had any problem with Reflex/r-style, using it for 10 years, 300 sets/year, mid to deep 38off, decided to buy it on a trip to Europe when my Goode Double Bindings needed some dual lock and I could not find it, after a couple of pre-releases due to my old dual lock bought the Reflex directly from the previous owner, Jean Marc. Reflex needs maintenance like any other binding, always check it before use.