Getting forward in turn

[JAS]

What are the necessary elements to get forward in turn? I have heard “stepping” into turn, hip rotation, moving hips forward etc. What are the coaching tips to help create this skill?

[ballsohard]

Nate Smith is the best in the business at doing this in my opinion. He accomplishes this by getting on the balls of his feet and bending his ankles then shifting his upper body forwards as he is coming into the turn. It is essential that he does this without dragging his ass.

 

 

 

[lpskier]

“Getting forward” is misleading. In the recent Regina video clip, she certainly got forward at one ball but not in a very productive way. I think it’s better to try to get as tall as possible with your shoulders, hips and feet in alignment.

[S1Pitts]

I think this one of those relative to things? To my eyes in none of the photos does Nate get forward relative to the water but he does go from being slightly back to forward relative to the top of the ski.

Is it safe to say that a deep riding tail ski you might never look like you are really forward? Where as a high riding tail you might look extremely forward if you are using the water as the reference instead of the top of the ski?

[Horton]

Be careful confusing what literally needs to happen with what you think about to make it happen.

 

Being more forward is having your pelvis further forward in relationship to your feet. You never want to move forward with your upper body. Shoulders forward will actually move your hips back. Hips forward will bring your shoulders forward the right way.

 

Because most skiers have their hips behind them the simplest way to move your hips forward is to stand taller. By increasing the distance between your head and your feet your hips are forced to come forward to a neutral position. For most skiers that neutral position is far superior to their normal position.

[jayski]

Forward is a terrible term, "CENTERED" is what we should focus on in my mind

[Horton]

@jayski forward of center is better that just centered. Problem is most skiers are far behind center.

[jayski]

@Horton show me a top skier that is forward of center, (and not tip biting forward at the finish of a turn), even those Nate pics show he isn't completely center, offside however so tough to do regardless

 

and I agree wholeheartedly that the HUGE majority of us are far from center

[Horton]

@jayski pains me greatly but you are correct

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_Kz7x1hEs9/?igshid=17er2dc2d89n5

[Zman]

Great points noted in the TW picture above. Especially like the elbows tight to lower ribs. IMHO this helps bring the skier up, centered over the ski. Let the arms get separated early (my issue), and getting up over the ski becomes a real chore. Other bad things happen too.

[JackQ]

Another way to conceptualize, is to have your center of mass moving forward on your approach to the ball. To me that is attempting to move my hips and upper body in unison, unfortunately I don’t have that as an automatic “habit” and often forget to force the movement in the heat of the battle on my hardest passes.

 

[VONMAN]

Offside turn in the pictures above of Nate show him shifting mass more forward (toe side) to engage the tip of the ski to turn without losing momentum. Think of dirt bike or surfer to make berm to turn. You paid for the ski, why are you only using half of it. That's why he's so smooth. No coming to the ball by stopping momentum dig a hole, only to muscle back out of said hole to pick up speed once again.

[Skoot1123]

@JackQ - I understand what you are saying and to a point I agree. BUT, a counterpoint to that is this - if you really have to force yourself over the front of the ski then is that ski really working with you or against you? I know there are skis that work best if that is what you do, especially if it comes naturally. It isn’t natural to me. That is the beauty of demoing some skis, pick the one that works best for you and your style and go from there.

[JackQ]

I don’t believe in my case it is a shortcoming in the ski, but the skier. I am a RFF skier with better offside turns than onside, I tend to turn too hard on coming off 1& 3 on my harder passes and come off the ball too much on heels and need to keep my center of mass moving forward after crossing centerline.

[Skoot1123]

@JackQ - yep I know the feeling.

 

One thing that really seems to help with getting centered over the ski is where you are looking. For me at least, if my vision is down course, looking forward, the far side of the lake - it really helps me get positioned for a powerful turn AND great connection out of the turn.

[MDB1056]

Agree with @Skoot1123 100%. Amazing how the little thing of where you are looking can have such a big impact. The even better news is it’s really easy to do.

[ToddL]

When I look at the picture series of Nate above, I focus on his ankles. The angle of his shin relative to the top of the ski definitely changes due to ankles flexing forward. He doesn't really stand up much more at first. His front knee stays almost the exact same amount bent until the last pic, where he does start to get taller. I do see his back leg starting to straighten in conjunction with his ankle flex. Horton said it before. If you straighten your back leg your hips will move forward. I see some of this happening with Nate above. Notice that it doesn't take a whole bunch of change to move the weight forward and put more ski in the water.

 

[ozski]

Get centred before you pull out for the gates and stay that way. In many respects its a by product of moving well through centre, Nate moves so well that what happens next is almost hard to avoid (for Nate), you can bet he does not think about it. Easy to watch hard to do for many of us however.

[ShaunT]

Nate mentioned a bunch of years ago in an article that he raises his rear heal to help step his weight forward which I guess helps keep him centered. Cant see much of that going on here, maybe very very small amount. But there are pictures around that show it. Another skiier that does it in an obvious way is Corey Vaughn. Check out the 2020 Hilltop Proam. Heres a shot from it. Im not saying its the be all and end all. I guess each skiier can find a "thing" that helps them stay centered and aligned. Just gotta find what it is for you.

 

 

 

[ToddL]

@ShaunT This video was discussed quite a bit back in the day,

Andy Mapple's rear heal:

[ShaunT]

@ToddL ahh yes forgot about this vid. Thanks for the reminder.