Switching to RTP

[ballsohard]

I used to ski on traditional double boots for a long time, then I went to a Reflex white cuff front and a Radar HRT rear. Now I'm making the shift to an RTP behind my Reflex front boot.

 

This is based on the advice that @drew gave me.

 

I will update you guys on how this goes.

 

Let me know if you guys have any tips.

[jeblanc]

I've always used an RTP. For many years it was just because it was all I knew. I have used a friend's double boot several times over the past year or so since I started skiing regularly on a course. I found that I can better keep my weight forward and balanced with an RTP, which was a bad habit that I didn't even know I had until a friend who's a much better skier than me pointed it out. It may be because that's just what I'm used to, but it may also be because I can lift my foot up more freely in order to not have all of my weight on my back foot.

[ghutch]

Theres a great thread on here about this. High rear vs RTP. Wish I could find it. Caldwell talks of a RTP "recipe" that Mapple used. I have tried it with little success but will revisit it again over the winter. Trying to get off my back foot more. If you can find the thread give it a read. Very informative. Anyone remember it?

[ballsohard]

Maybe @Than_Bogan has an interesting thought or two, I know that he went down this rabbit hole in the past.

[ballsohard]

It would also be great if @adamhcaldwell could chime in about the RTP "recipe" etc.

[Stefan]

fittingly this came out today;

or here;

https://radarskis.com/spraymakers

[Killer]

@ghutch I see lots of skiers backfooting it with an RTP. I believe it's a move a very advanced skier can make to get just that much further forward if that is what you're looking for.

 

There is no silver bullet.

 

The spraymakers EP was great. It's funny cuz I feel like I'm the only one with a rear boot these days lol.

[jpwhit]

I made the switch from double bindings to RTP 5 years ago after skiing the double setup for 30 years. At first, I felt like I was literally going to fall off the ski and it took me quite a while to adapt. Then a couple of years ago, I switched to a reflex front hard shell binding. That took a little time as well, but really a pretty quick transition compared to the RTP transition. I was struggling to keep my weight centered on the ski, and the RTP transition made a huge improvement for me. I've progressed more since the switch than I had in the last 15 years before the switch.

 

I still believe it's a personal preference thing, but for me the switch really paid dividends. I also had some rear foot cramping issues at time in the full rear, it's so nice to ski now in complete comfort.

[vtmecheng]

In addition to not being able to really even ski with a double binding, I love being able to take the rear foot out between passes and just relax. When it's time to go, just stick my foot in. No cramping or discomfort.

[Kwoody51]

Maybe a newb question but what does a move from HRT to RTP allow you to do?

 

Totally get what boot to HRT does but feel like HRT to RTP seem more subtle.

 

Not questioning your move, just trying to gain a better understanding.

[ballsohard]

In theory, it's easier to get weight on the front of the ski without getting bent out of a good position. @Kwoody51

[Kwoody51]

@ballsohard

 

Makes sense. I thought maybe this was the case but didn’t know if you were also looking for an ability to move your heel around (if that’s a thing :))

[ballsohard]

Slightly lifting my heal would definitely make it easier to get my weight forward.

 

How this all plays out in reality though, is yet to be seen.

 

@Kwoody51

[ballsohard]

@Stefan giving the podcast a listen rn!

[Cnewbert]

The latest Rossi + Trent Spraymakers podcast on this subject is outstanding. No surprise there.

[ballsohard]

@Cnewbert I couldn't agree more. It makes me feel good about making the change. I have a "reason" (more weight over the front of the ski in the turns along with my back foot not forcing the ski to turn in an inefficient manner).

[C5Quest]

What are the types/ brands of RTPs that everyone is using? I know it’s a personal choice but what are best options if attempting to switch...besides the Reflex r-style

[ballsohard]

That's a great question, I was about to ask it. @C5Quest

[ghutch]

The kicker "recipe" that Caldwell uses is borrowed from the GOAT himself (Mapple). He took a Wiley RTP-cut the rubber padding off of it (footbed), put grip tape in it's place, and moved the strap back so it will hold better. Interesting story of how they were skiing with him and blew their rear boot out, used Andys modified rtp and was back running their regular passes after a few attempts. Went home and tried all the rtp's they had and could not duplicate the results. Forgive me if I left something out but thats basically the gist of it.

[ballsohard]

Just got back from my first set on the RTP. Strangely enough, it felt good right off the bat. I started off doing whips then just doing wake crossings. After that, I felt confident and started doing some real skiing. I felt great and was told by my driver that I looked just as good as before the switch. I'm excited about this binding change. I definitely felt a lot smoother in my pullout/glide and was having an easier time turning the ski more aggressively.

 

Shoutout to @drew for convincing me that I should ditch the back boot.

[ballsohard]

@ghutch I found the thread where @adamhcaldwell talks about his RTP "recipe"

 

https://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/comment/337309

 

"Obviously I am biased toward the kicker now...so if you have something figured out your happy with, thats great. But here is a little about what I have learned and what I do.

 

Firstly, Not all rear kickers are created equal. If you take the time to make one there is NOTHING BETTER. It think if you look closely at some top PROs who have been advocating double boots for a long time, you'll see a trend happening back toward the rear kicker.

 

Quick back story. I tried 3 or 4 different kickers back in 2008 after having old double approach bindings in 2000-2005, followed by a extreme version of a cutdown rear shell (very soft plastic) from 2006-2011. This rear shell exploded one day out at Andys testing skis and Cord and I ended up pulling Mapples kicker off his ski and using that for an afternoon. We both had NO issue making the switch with Andys Kicker - there was just a few sets of getting 'used to it', but in general 'it worked'. When I got back to Charleston the next week, I took two or three 'brand name'' rear toes out to try them as they were stock, and could not run a pass. My heel was falling off the side of the ski and it was very sloppy & slippery.

 

This was a huge surprise and unexpected as a kicker seems so simple, how could it be that different between Mapple and the brand name? - Well, Mapple built his kicker for performance, reliability, consistency, longevity, functionality. While as the brand names are made to look good, look comfortable, easy to get your foot in and have a good appearance on the showroom floor. Grip tape on a metal plate is not as attractive in the pro-shop as a nice thick cushy foam pad.

 

Cord still uses the Mapple pattern for his kicker, while I have found off the shelf parts from Wileys that work phenomenally well for me, I just got tired of cutting parts myself. Wilely's products are highly underrated. They evolve from a designs from hundreds of pro-skiers over the decades - back then I think there was a broader knowledge of the finer aspects of skis setup at the upper level manufacturers across the board. At some-point there was a shift. Change driven by good intentions, but not necessarily a good understanding.

 

Certainly a hard-shell creates more leverage over the ski. Question is, is more leverage over the ski actually better? IMHO, the answer is No. While leverage seem relay integral behind the boat, it can be a major detriment to the skis ability to articulate under our body throughout the entire turn phase, starting from CL.

 

If anyone is interested here is the "Caldwell kicker recipe":

Wilely Plate with all the foam removed.

Apply a tread/grip tape in replacement of the foam pad.

Remove the rubber loop and mount it back further on the plate such that your foot can penetrate the loop to get your entire foot to be supported to prevent excessive twist. Your toes should not be hanging over the edge of the plate. You should be able to move your heel some, but not twist it off the side of the kicker plate.

.

 

Personally, I love the Wiley because they are setup with various size rubber loops, and wide/narrow plates, along with off the shelf parts that are low cost and easy to to repair, and affordable to keep on hand.

 

For some, one big fear with the kicker is the foot 'slipping out'. If that is happening or close to happening, then the kicker is wrong. Even if you break at the waist, your back foot shouldn't feel like its going to slip out.

 

Its common when going to a kicker that the ski will be much better at rolling/turning and keeping the speed up. It can also allow your hips to move much further forward, as well as reduce the leverage acting on the back leg/foot/ankle. This helps the nose of the ski stay down much better everywhere allowing the front foot to do its job in managing roll angle, while the back foot is just along for the ride. Sometimes this requires a shift to the fin/boots to correct the way the ski rides in the water.

 

If/when going to a kicker, plan on taking a couple sets to re-calibrate with the ski setup. Dont judge too quickly if using an off the shelf kicker. Take the time to get it setup right. For under $100, you can get a wiley kicker shipped out. Low price to pay for a lot of potential gain.

 

Often with more free ankle movement, and a closer foot spread being achievable, the front boot will need to be moved back on the ski. As the feet get closer together, your hips are naturally taller, and pelvis will consistently shift further forward." -Adam Caldwell

[ghutch]

@ballsohard Thats it! great thread. Alot of info there

 

[Kwoody51]

Ordered a new HRT but it was delivered in the wrong size (small vs STD, no way to make that fit!). Since the HRT I need is out of stock I'm going to give this RTP thing a shot. Might only get a few outings on it but may as well give it a go!

 

I grew up riding a RTP and my biggest complaint was not being able to consistently secure my foot. When my foot was 'in' it felt awesome but if it wasn't I felt like my foot was always about to fall out. Guessing I likely had too small of RTP.

 

Props to @mike_mapple at Perf ski for great customer service!

[mike_mapple]

@adamhcaldwell cant believe my dad let you guys take his RTP to use!

[ballsohard]

Went for my first ski of the year today and probably my 6th ever time on the RTP my biggest takeaway is that the RTP is definitely a large improvement for me.