How to not fall like this again?

[Slalom.Steve]

This video is from June 18th, and it gave me a concussion. The concussion later triggered 10 days of anxiety attacks, and I am only now maybe almost over the concussion recovery, so this will knock out 3 months of my season. Needless to say, that all sucked... a lot, and I do not want to fall this way again. I also have video of a very similar fall from last summer while free skiing (no injury - video's been added in comment below), so it's something I seem to have a bad habit of, but it's a weird place/way to fall, so I'm not sure what's going on.

 

This is 30mph, 15off, so obviously there's about 1000 things to improve overall, but I'm wondering if there's one or two specific things that may help me avoid another fall like this one.

 

Thank you!

[MNshortliner]

I have no advice, but...ouch

[MISkier]

What it looks like to me is that you have the handle very high and away from your body. I think the boat just pulled you over, since you were extended like a big lever. You raise it higher and earlier at 5 than you did at 1 ball and 3 ball, so it wasn't a problem at those two. You were also on the back of your ski quite a bit at 5, so there wasn't much of the ski edge in the water to keep you carving away on your preturn to resist pulling over on your side.

 

You do not have the issue on the 2/4 side. The handle is down to your hip much better and your reach is more natural there.

 

There are a lot of good things happening in that pass, so just cleanup your position on the ski in that offside preturn and correct that handle control.

[6balls]

You lose your leveraged position at the wake letting your butt get behind and your shoulders forward. The handle comes away from your body too soon, then it's as if you think your stack-time is over releasing your free hand earlier than you should. This leaves you early but narrow, so you hold the ski off from arcing inward by staying back on the ski and reaching high, skiing parallel the boat while getting some loose line--crash. Search the site for handle control by @Bruce_Butterfield--classic stuff.

 

[T_C]

You do not have enough surface area on the fin. It needs to be longer and possible deeper.

[RGilmore]

What @6balls said.

[2tracmind]

All the above is good technical advice and I am in agreement with T_C, your ski setup needs to be safer so these "smack you upside the head" falls don't happen. Good Luck.

[lpskier]

With falls like that, who needs a wakeboard?

[brettmainer]

I agree with all the comments above. You are not a pro, but there is a lot good about your skiing, and that fall should not have happened. That ski is not your friend. Settings or something about the ski itself is off.

[alex38]

That is a weird fall indeed. Recover well.

 

I tried to look closer at what happened but I only have my phone at the moment.

 

Looks like the ski hit something while on edge, maybe a turtle?

 

It appears that something causes the ski to lose its inside edge abruptly at a point I would not expect it.

 

It also looks like the ski stops stops dead in its tracks and throws you forward while you are dropping to the inside to turn.

 

Could the ski have hit something? A fish or turtle?

 

Fin setup possibly too, but that would be one extremely wrong set up if it caused that.

 

Fortunately, the more you practice fundamentals as mentioned above the safer AND better you will ski, even if

you hit a turtle.

 

 

[braindamage]

I’ve had that fall, though no concussion. You are flat on the ski unlike the prior balls look at the spray of that turn compared to the others. You weren’t in the inside edge, so when your body thought it was to time to turn there was no arc...timberrr...over you go. Transition to the inside edge more aggressively.

[6balls]

FWIW Steve is my nephew--has very little lifetime water time so yeah he's got potential.

@2tracmind @brettmainer Steve is on my former Vapor(I think a 2016) that was set up with Rossi's help. I took it thru 38 off at 34 mph and 35 off at 36 mph with those fin numbers. I have to dig up notes to see if I still have the settings. One could argue that it was tweaked for higher speeds and shorter lines and is likely still so today.

[LoopSki]

As a crappy skier I have no advice , but it almost looks like the fin fell off in the pre turn . I’m gonna agree with @brettmainer something is off on the set up. That or too many ipa prior to that set. Lol

[ScottScott]

If the fin was that far off, it would be blowing out in the turns also. Unless it just fell off just before edge change... Weight was certainly on the tail coming in to the turn. A bizarre fall nonetheless.

[DaveD]

If you have the wing on your fin, you might try taking it off. I used to break hard at the waste coming into the turn when I was learning to ski. Taking the wing off drastically improved that.

[jjackkrash]

@sixballs, if you were running long and shallow, he might benefit from a deep and short set up to help prevent that fall. I'm not an expert, but, coincidentally, I was reading Fin Whispering this week and last and playing with going from deep and short to long and shallow; deep and short definitely feels more stable to me and a deeper fin has more roll resistance.

[Slalom.Steve]

Thanks everyone! Always inspired and uplifted by the ski community's willingness to help others :)

 

In regards to set up, as @6balls said, I received the ski from him. Having only started seriously skiing last year and now only about 4.5 total months in the course under my belt, I unfortunately really know nothing about ski set up, especially fin adjustments, and do not own calipers. I really do want to learn though, and this has spurred me to reach out to my current club and I believe I'll be able to do a "tutoring" session with a fellow skier. At that time I can measure my current fin and let you guys know. I am running it without the wing on. Time to search BoS for caliper recommendations lol.

 

At my (different) club last year, someone who said they knew what they were doing, after watching me ski, made some fin adjustments and also recommended moving my boots back one notch. I do not know specifically what fin adjustments he made, but I did move the boots back. Especially back then, my skiing was inconsistent and unfamiliar enough simply from a technique and awareness point of view that I couldn't say for sure whether the adjustments were any better or worse. Note that the ski is 67" and I only weigh 155-160 (first thing in the morning), so my understanding is that 67" is a touch long and a 66" would be more ideal.

Since this maybe has also turned into a "ski set up recommendations" thread, here is a much more successful pass from a week before, probably my best of the year (despite running over 1 ball), in order compare the good vs. the bad:

Back to the fall, a lot of the technique recommendations from @MISkier, @6balls, and @braindamage make a lot of sense to me. I can definitely see how I get disconnected starting at the wakes, relax my body stack, stay flat, and roll onto the back of the ski.

 

The fin definitely didn't fall off. In regards to hitting something, there are a lot of small turtles at the lake. But the fact that I fell in a very similar way on a different lake last year makes me think that's less likely. Here's that video as well:

[davethewave]

WOW...that's wierd.

[skispray]

I had that exact same fall once. It felt like I was riding fine into the buoy and then suddenly the ski completely gave out on me, like something from the deep reached up and grabbed it, causing me to face plant onto the water. It hurt. So sitting in the water, I grab the end of my ski and pull it towards me to take a look at my fin, and I see a twig, about a foot and a half long, sitting through one of the holes on my fin! As far as I can tell, when I rolled into edge the twig was in the perfect spot to get lodged in my fin, and that caused the fall. Based on that, I believe this fall would have also been caused by a dynamic change to the ski shape while you were skiing. Was your fin or wing loose enough to move at this point in the pass?

 

The advice about not reaching too high is also good, but the way your ski augurs into the water so dramatically makes me wonder if you hit something or got snagged on something.

 

My advice, survey the water you plan to ski beforehand and remove any debris.

[skispray]

Just watched your earlier fall, which looks closer to a tip pressure issue. It’s odd that you’re experiencing the issue so early in the pre-turn, but I would have a pro set your ski up properly, and also check for debris before skiing.

[thager]

If you don't have sufficient speed into the turn there is no force to hold you up allowing you to just fall in.

[storm34]

All great advice above. Thought I'd share two things that have helped me break through to faster speeds and shorter line lengths. These are more the philosophical aspects of skiing rather than any major physical changes.

 

1) Gate Shot - Listen to Rossi & Trent's podcast on gates, specifically the portion about timing of the turn in to the gates. Your position looks good through the entire gate but I think you can be more efficient (and connected to the boat) simply by adjusting your timing.

 

Rossi talks about the relationship between the skier, ski & boat at the end of the glide (turn in) to the gates. This is rather interesting to me as it seems most skiers determine their turn into the gates based on their relationship to the buoys and are not focused on what the boat is doing at that moment. You get all your energy from the boat so it's logical to look at where the boat is when you turn in to the gates.

 

Your pull out and glide look great - plenty of width and good body position. At the end of your glide, the boat seems to have already started to advance down course (in proximity to you) before you turn into the gates. While we can't see the boat in the video, the rope starts to fall back towards the transom and you're still pointed down lake. At this point, with your ski still pointed down lake, you're giving up energy to the boat and essentially behind the boat before the pass even begins.

 

Rossi & Trent talk about having the ski turned in towards the wake as the boat starts to advance (pull away from you) down the lake. When the boat advances, you want the ski (and your body) moving towards the wakes so you can take advantage of the boat's energy, gradually increase load as you enter the white wash and have max pull behind the boat.

 

Again, listen to the podcast as they do a nice job of explaining this theory which I've found incredibly helpful. Turn in should be determined by your relationship to the boat, not the buoys.

 

2) Handle placement into the buoy - Listen to Will Asher's "The Water Ski" podcast with Matteo. Will talks about loading behind the boat and staying two hands long coming into the buoy. Cool theory for us longer line skiers who aspire to ski shorter lines. Handle management is a huge key to generating width. When the boat speed increases we naturally end up coming off the handle too early because everything seems fast.

 

In both the originally posted video and the "earlier pass" you release (reach the handle) to too early. Off the pull behind the boat, you move abruptly to the inside edge of the ski, point the ski right at the buoy and reach to the pylon. Some call this giving the handle to the boat. At that point, you've lost all the angle and speed created behind the boat and become extremely vulnerable. Tip of the ski grabs and you get pulled over....abruptly.

 

At these speeds & line lengths you shouldn't be relying on your reach to get the ski outside the buoy. As you come out of the pull, keep the handle close to your body which will help you swing out wide. For me, this is where you start to feel free of the boat and in more control at the buoy.

 

All of this will allow you to maximize the boats pull, minimize the amount of body movement (reach) at the buoy and ultimately stay connected through the entire course. With this stuff in mind, watch video of Will Asher & Freddie Winter from the boat's vantage point. Watch their ski in relation to the boat at the gate, how they pull behind the boat and where they release off the handle coming into the buoy.

 

The good thing is you're doing a ton of things right. A few timing adjustments and I think you'll be much more consistent and progress really quickly.

[Than_Bogan]

I am firmly in the camp that something went very wrong with that ski or that you hit something hard in the water. Even if you lose speed and topple to the inside there, nothing bad should happen. I've fallen in like that hundreds of times. Minor technical errors may lead to failure to run the pass, but should never lead to the type of crash in the video.

 

All of the technique advice mentioned above can be helpful, but if your ski can suddenly lose all traction in the water with the tail still firmly IN the water, then dangerous falls will keep happening. And I agree with @skispray that this looks like a dynamic change, because a fin that was providing almost no support against a tailslide would have already knocked you into the water on an earlier buoy.

 

One real possibility is a loose fin. If under the pressure of the turn, the fin suddenly got pushed into the ski and thus much less of it in the water, a fall like that would be expected.

 

On a more minor note: Be sure to disable youtube's stabilization feature when uploading ski videos. That is the cause of the "wiggling."

[Than_Bogan]

I also agree with @skispray that your "other fall" was different. Maybe some more fin surface area could help make that a touch less likely, but in that one I believe you put all your weight onto the tip by pitching your upper body forward, and basically ripped the fin out of the water.

[hammerski]

Looks like a “wrong way turn”. This will knock into last week for sure! I’ve only had a couple skis do that over the years, first time was at mike Suyderhoud ski school in the early 80’s. Some skis will do it if you try running them without a wing or not enough wing. As the ski slows down, instead of the tip engaging and starting to turn left back towards the boat, it continues outbound without the turn in, and it body slams you. Last ski that did that to me, spooked me from keeping it. Also a little more core off the second wake will help the keep the upper body up. :)

[ReallyGottaSki]

wow, very abrupt

 

I see some odd weight transfers going on in the preturn..'

shouldn't see daylight under your front heel here

 

 

is this compensation after this ski slammed you by diving in the 'earlier fall' video?

 

also some wild slack at this point, little line tension maintained

 

I'm not one to blame equipment first, but when you can't trust a ski when you lean hard on it, some odd and often counterproductive compensations occur

 

[LK_skier]

I think your bad fall video is your best skiing - no doubt something hit your ski to make a sudden reaction like that occur. the other crash you had - looks like you just engaged the tip of the ski and broke at the waist and fell - I've done that heaps of times! Go ski - have fun...

[ScottScott]

The 2nd video, earlier fall, you were bouncing across some rollers coming off the wake, and still bouncing through some pretty good rollers as you started your turn. All bets are off there.

[6balls]

The other thing you can do is look up stock numbers for the fin/wing/binding on that ski and go basically back to stock. That is almost always the best place to start.

[storm34]

Check the ski but I don’t think that’s the problem.

 

You’re off the handle and reaching to the boat 2-3’ outside the white wash in both crashes. Your ski is going out towards the buoy your body is being pulled down lake. This separation is what causes the fall as the inside edge of the ski catches and stops dead in its tracks.

 

 

[Buoyhead69]

About 2 weeks ago I ran my -28 in a pretty stiff tailwind and I was extremely happy. I almost called it a day but decided to run 1 more “easy” pass at -22 for a cool down. I had a very similar face plant coming out of 2 ball after pulling way to hard and getting a ton of slack. I chalked it up to a mental error as I was still patting myself in the back for my -28 and not focused on the task at hand. It hurt like hell, worst fall of the year for me. But I was so happy to run that -28 in the wind that I was still smiling ear to ear. So... I’d start with “operator error” as a cause for your somewhat bizarre fall, you lost focus on a basic stacked body position. It happens to everyone.

[Than_Bogan]

Hm. If letting go much too soon and losing speed into the ball could regularly cause falls like that, I would be dead.

I do that all the time. I wish I didn't, but I've never been punished with a dangerous crash. That's why I'm pretty confident there was more to this than that.

[Keith_Menard]

@Than_Bogan I have the 2017 vapor...and for me letting go to early just means the ski stops and won't turn. For all the falls I have had, haven't had that one (yet)

 

[6balls]

It's a good ski, settings may not be great as mentioned I set it up for me much faster and shorter. As for a turtle, I don't buy it.

I am willing to name this fall, however, "the turtle". "Yard sale" is so yesterday.

[skispray]

If this fall was not caused by hitting something or from your fin moving, and it is, in fact, technique related, then I would say that it stems from your weight distribution during edge change and a rush to turn the ski too soon after edge change. You can see from these still shots that your turn is much, much longer into 1 & 3 ball then it is into 5 ball. You may have been getting a bit late, or just weren't as strong out of 4 ball, and basically tried to rush your turn, initiating it very soon in relation to your edge change. Problem was, your weight distribution caused a spike in tip pressure as you changed edges, started the ski oscillating up and down. All the while, you're trying to throw it onto that inside edge and make a quick turn. The combination of simultaneous oscillation of the ski up and down along with the ski's roll angle increasing causes the ski to loose its edge, and down you go.

 

Take a look at your rooster tail/previous ski path into 1, 3, and 5. You can see that your wake is pretty choppy into 5, whereas its quite smooth into 1 & 3. I tried to circle the chop in your wake in one of the still images below. Also, the first still of 5 ball is where I think things originated. Your tip is almost buried coming off the wakes, and I think that's what spiked the pressure and started things oscillating up and down. Not sure how to avoid that, but if that isn't what happened them I'm completely stumped.

 

1 ball:

 

 

 

3 ball:

 

 

 

5 ball: