Baller_ The_MS Posted October 20, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted October 20, 2021 If you choose to not get the preventative Covid shot, that is the risk you take. Watching people die of lung cancer after a pack a day also sucks. Watching anybody die of anything sucks. My point was that after all those mandates, the numbers are as bad or worse then non mandated places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Mrs_MS Posted October 20, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 20, 2021 @The_MS At the training center yesterday….FA’s mandated to wear masks….Pilots only suggested. ? IN THE SAME BUILDING I would like to know the reason skiers from other countries don’t have to take the Safe Sport training. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller LeonL Posted October 20, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 20, 2021 As I stated on this thread a couple of weeks ago, I took the course because I want to ski in a couple of tourneys a year. Just finished. But....90 minutes my big ass! I went as fast as I could and it took me 2 1/2 hours. I don't know how it could have been done any more quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted October 20, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted October 20, 2021 No one will give us an explanation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ScarletArrow Posted October 20, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 20, 2021 If this thread is still active in December, it will be the new Jelly of the Month Club. "Clark, that's the gift that keeps on giving the whole year." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted October 20, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted October 20, 2021 The BOD is so dug in they won’t change. They just need to eat some crow and make the correct decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dthate Posted October 20, 2021 Members Share Posted October 20, 2021 @Mrs_MS prolly the same reasoning that the deluge of illegals pouring over our southern border are not Covid tested and being bussed all over our country by "our" gov. The mandates are for us, laws only apply to us.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Mrs_MS Posted October 20, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 20, 2021 @dthate ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted October 20, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 20, 2021 @ms if only people followed it. My county is 40% vax and no one masks. These older folks are getting it from their school-aged grandkids who are not symptomatic but carrying from school with no masks. Pre-covid we seldom had a death in our hospital, now they drop like flies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Mrs_MS Posted October 20, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 20, 2021 @6balls It was suppose to be funny….it was directed to @dtgate in regards to us having to wear masks in training but not pilots. It’s like the word of the year and yet so much hypocrisy! Government orders masks yet mostly only wear on TV. The whole border issue like @dthate explained above. That other countries don’t have to take SS but we do! Did not mean to offend at all ? I appreciate all you do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted October 20, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 20, 2021 @Mrs_MS no worries Kim I know you guys! Just been a rough week. Ok thread hijack to covid--back on track folks--sorry for the digression tough week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted October 21, 2021 Baller_ Share Posted October 21, 2021 Wonder if this was a USAWS event?? All the drivers observers and skiers mandated??? Officials? Team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted October 21, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2021 @Jody_Seal just google nm I'll cancel my response. Too topical. People here would be offended and get too up in their panties. is bos cancel culture based on readership............. ................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted October 21, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2021 @6balls its crazy. I have a patient I shoot with wears the red hat. He has lost 20% of his small bore mens league over the last year. I do not get why people cannot grasp the issue. He btw has stopped wearing the hat. My clinic is empty at the hospital so it must be a hoax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller unksskis Posted October 21, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2021 @LeonL thank you. I guess if people aren't going to comply, maybe they take the initiative to request a refund proactively, or once they are not able to enter a competition. Refunding money that has already been allocated/spent will make more of an impact than loss of future memberships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller NameUnavailable Posted October 21, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2021 Gordon Hall ask me once how to increase membership....(I live at Princeton Lakes) We all spent $600k - $1m+ to live here, and half or more of my neighbors are not members. They don't see the value in the organization. And that value proposition keeps moving more weight to the bad side of the scale with mandates, rules, testing, and fees. I don't blame my neighbors for not joining. We will all have a tipping point...is it when the membership is $100 or $200, and entry fees to nationals are $300 or $500...and you still spend hours in a boat...you start to say I can take my family on a nice vacation for what it cost to go to a ski tournament....none of us lost our love of waterskiing we are just staying home....the greatest loss is not seeing friends you have known for 40+ years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BS74 Posted October 21, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2021 I saw an article a few days ago about a cyclist named Scott Morris who was banned from competing by Safe Sport until more investigation. Some one sent in a 15 yo article about where he is accused of sexual misconduct. I won't paraphrase, please read the article. What really bothers me is that we are supposed to be in this country, innocent until proven guilty, except when it comes from Safe Sport. This leaves open the door for anyone who has a beef with you to make an accusation and get you immediately sanctioned. With over 23 pages in this thread, I apologize if this was mentioned earlier. Here is the link, please take the time to read the whole thing. https://www.velonews.com/news/road/scott-morris-responds-to-safesport-suspension-and-usa-crits-departure/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dthate Posted October 21, 2021 Members Share Posted October 21, 2021 @BS74 I'm sure that is an isolated incident, the well intended unelected are here to protect only...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BS74 Posted October 21, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2021 @dthate : Isolated, you have evidence about that? Isolated or not, it's wrong! It's hard to repair a reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dthate Posted October 21, 2021 Members Share Posted October 21, 2021 @BS74 I was being very sarcastic, I agree it is wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bigtex2011 Posted October 21, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2021 @BS74 didn't you state that you quit competitive skiing in '08. You don't have to worry about Safesport and how it affects you on a person level. Rejoin the AWSA and then lob all the grenades' you want. I don't agree with @The_MS, but I respect his opinion because he has continued to pay into a organization that has made mandates that he opposes. As I stated before, I don't really look forward to watching the video and all that it encompasses. But, I don't find it a big deal either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Drago Posted October 21, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2021 @BSB67 He may have recent issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BS74 Posted October 21, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2021 @bigtex2011 What an asinine and ignorant statement! First of all the article was simply given to show how Safe Sport handles complaints. What's the bomb shell? Most of us, except for the ignorant, believe in due process, innocent till proven guilty! I certainly don't have to be a member of any organization to make comments about it. So you are so high and mighty that you can't respect the comments of many previous members who have seen it all? I was in the organization for almost 30 years, and you really think this one issue keeps me from rejoining? So if @The_MS ms doesn't renew his membership you are going to tell him to shut up? We are living in a "cancel" culture where people are being judged or dismissed or found guilty only to be found not guilty later on as facts come out. NO WHERE did I say imply or say for anyone to not take the class, I could care less. Telling me to shut up is equivalent to telling a veteran of world war 2 to not make a comment about war in Afghanistan because he's not in the military any more. Try thinking before you open your mouth next time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller buechsr Posted October 21, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2021 @BS74 I read the entirety of your article. Frankly, you may want to read more on Mr. Morris, including from the links in the article you posted. Or, just google him. There is no shortage of appalling allegations. From what is surmisable, he was facing almost 200 years for child pornography, and appears to have pled guilty to lesser charges, but elsewhere there is reference to a "conviction" for computer services theft. For purposes of my post, it doesn't matter. Furthermore, it also appears Safesport flagged his one day racing license request this summer, not in response to an old newspaper article. I have no problem with safesport operating with a evidentiary standard different than that of a courtroom. While criminal defendants' right to be entitled to the benefit of being innocent until proven guilty is sacrosanct, I have no issue with someone who was accused of some pretty heinous things being "temporarily suspended". He will have his day to dispute his suspension. He'll get the due process he seeks from safesport. While I don't know if he's guilty or not, I have no problem keeping people who have been charged with child pornography off the starting docks at USAWS events "temporarily" until a full investigation is done. There is a big difference between exoneration and prosecutorial decisions. To be sure, I view this as an example of safesport working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bigtex2011 Posted October 21, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2021 @BS74 I would say no disrespect, but that would be untrue. I'm fairly certain you are an idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BS74 Posted October 21, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2021 @buechsr First of all, not my article, it was taken form the Fox news channel. I didn't post the article to cast judgment one way or another on this individual, that will come out later. I do take issue with guilty till proven innocent. You are wrong on the newspaper article, his quote: (This involves something from 15 years ago that someone sent them a press clipping of. Something that I was not found guilty of,” Morris said. “I said I was innocent from the beginning. I have no legal restrictions against me.) I can assume "them" is Safe Sport. I do have a problem with standards different than a court room, and we have to look no farther than the allegations on various issues during the bummer presidency. How many times did he have to eat his words by jumping to conclusions( remember the NC students). We are a nation of laws and it's being attacked on a daily basis. It's real easy to react to a 15 yo clip, yet totally screw up the gymnasts who complained for years, I'd hardly say they are doing their job. You darn better have proof of misconduct before you stop people from making a living, or face the legal consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BS74 Posted October 21, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2021 @bigtex2011 : Calling you an as is probably a compliment! You made it personal, so expect a personal response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller buechsr Posted October 21, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2021 @BS74 I know what the article you linked says. But, you may want to click more of the links to get "more" of the story, as reported. Or, just google his name. I don't know if he's guilty or not. Don't know if he was aquitted, charges were dropped, or took a plea deal. For purposes of this discussion of safesport's suspension, it's irrelevant. They didn't ban him. They suspended him, by definition, a temporary pause. Heck our own legal system uses the same methodology ie temporary restraining orders, which is essentially what a suspension is until such time that more is learned and permanent decision can be made. Safesport relates to athletic events and participants. It is not, and should not, be a simple mirror of the legal system, for myriad reasons, most importantly, prosecutorial decisions (and even jury decisions) should not be the sole arbiter of whether someone is "safe" to participate in sports. Furthermore, we are patchwork of 50 states with unique laws of evidence and punishment in each, which influence the decisions of prosecutors. More succinctly, I'm fine with Safesport having the autonomy to conduct their own investigations and dole their own sanctions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted October 21, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted October 21, 2021 USAWS can suspend Someone like this if they want. Let the law do the investigation. We don’t need safe sport for this. 1. Dump the mandate 2. Sever the relationship with USOC 3. Have coaches or trainers take the course/recurrent training and recertification every 4 years. The BOD needs to wake up and admit they overstepped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BS74 Posted October 21, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2021 @buechsr : I didn't post the article to debate his guilt or innocence, I posted it because of the way it was handled. You and I disagree on procedure for this, and that's fine, but once we make an accusation that comes out on page one it gets redacted on page 33 where no one sees it. I'm not the only one who has problems with the process of determining guilt, apparently many lawyers feel the same way. It's very hard to rebuild a reputation. Ask a teacher who has been accused of misbehavior when nothing really happened. Here is a good article to read on Safe Sport:https://pulitzercenter.org/stories/three-years-center-safesport-faces-controversy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller buechsr Posted October 21, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2021 @BS74, I'm not either. I've only pointed out there is more to the story than the "accused's" quotes. But lets be honest, his reputation was spoiled not by safesport but when was arrested for 45 counts of child porn. And if he was legitimately falsely accused without evidence, he'd have a claim for malicious prosecution. There was a whole bunch of news stories on this guy, but I didn't see one on that. In your view, what was wrong with the way safesport handled his situation? He wasn't banned, he was suspended. He's entitled to, and will apparently be participating in safesport's process for further action, if any is warranted. What part of that do you have a problem with? Only conclusion must be that safesport should not be able to temporarily suspend someone? Is that right? Because, that's all that's happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BS74 Posted October 21, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2021 @buechsr : What I don't like is suspending the athlete before the facts come out. Many of these athletes have limited opportunities to participate. We don't put people in jail till we prove their innocence. We shouldn't suspend someone until they are proven guilty, that's my beef. By temporarily suspending him before the fact finding is depriving him due process which means the athlete cannot compete till resolved. I understand and sympathize with your feelings, we just don't agree with the process. This isn't the NFL where you collect a pay check while suspended. We have a right to confront our accuser, not with safe sport. There is no time limit, are we to go back 15 yrs, how about 30 yrs?, and I believe that some arbitrator should not have the sole power to make the decision. Here is a quote from the article: Although Klein and Estey disagree on the exact nature of SafeSport's perceived inadequacy, they agree that proceedings related to SafeSport issues should be handled by law enforcement and in a court of law. Please read the whole article, many of my objections are in the article. Believe me, I am totally in when it comes to protection of our kids, but not at the expense of trashing due process. Look at what's happening in our education institutions. There are those who insist on 20 or more pronouns for gender. It can be considered a hate crime at some universities if the proper pronoun is not used. Imagine being at a athletic event, and some one files a hate speech complaint to safe sport over pronoun gender. Think it can't happen, it already is at schools. Safe sport has nothing to do with me or has no influence on my decision not to join AWSA. That ship sailed years ago and there are others in this conversation who have also stated those same reasons. It's simple, want to ski, take the class. I'm not advocating one way or the other, your choice. Just wonder what the next thing is coming down the line. Someone mentioned get the jab or no ski, wonder what would happen then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller unksskis Posted October 21, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2021 Please take these conspiracy theories back to Parler or Facebook, not BOS. It’s a recreational sport, there are no given “rights”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BS74 Posted October 22, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2021 @unksskis ,what are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller scuppers Posted October 22, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2021 @unksskis What the heck? There are given rights - Reread the Declaration of Independence, The Gettysburg Address and the US Constitution. A whole lot of people died for those rights and no organization trumps those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller JackQ Posted October 22, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2021 Don’t believe the Declaration of Independence, US Constitution including the Bill of rights: has any relevance or jurisdiction of your rights to water ski or the governing body (USAWS) rules. If they decided within their governance structure that all skier need to wear purple bennies when skiing to remain a member they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BS74 Posted October 22, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2021 @JackQ ,I believe he's talking about Safe sport, they can be held accountable. There are law suits against them for violation of due process. You're probably right regarding awsa. It's their club, their rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller unksskis Posted October 22, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2021 Hahaha, I forgot about my 69th amendment that gave me the right to access to a waterskiing governing association. ✌️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Intheday Posted October 22, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2021 I estimate around 40,000 to 50,000 words have been typed on this subject hope you folks have it worked out now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted October 22, 2021 Baller_ Share Posted October 22, 2021 @Intheday You don't have to read this thred, nor do those that support a government overreach program in this sport. Go start one of your own on how great this idea is for membership. Otherwise this protest page will continue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ALPJr Posted October 22, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2021 Last night I had a dream that when I was searching online for waterski information, instructional articles and news all that I could find was skifly . com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted October 22, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted October 22, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rfa Posted October 22, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2021 Personally I couldn't care less if this goes on for another 24 pages, but seriously, can someone tell me something that was said in the last 20 pages that wasn't said in the first 3 or 4? As long as we're having fun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skidawg Posted October 22, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2021 there needs to be an overhaul in the governing body of skiing, It has been declining yearly...if It takes 100,000 words to get someone's attention it is worth it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted October 22, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted October 22, 2021 This thread would end today if the BOD would listen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klindy Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 @The_MS or anyone else, what do you think the AWSA Board should do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted October 22, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted October 22, 2021 1. Drop the USOC relationship 2. Revisit the mandate and only require coaches and or leadership to complete training. Drop SS and develop our own training that will satisfy the insurance companies. 3. Explain why international skiers don’t have to complete the training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Drago Posted October 22, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2021 ...control the border, drop the jab mandate, drop the purple cap mandate. Oh, wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller escmanaze Posted October 22, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2021 @unksskis "Please take these conspiracy theories back to Parler or Facebook, not BOS. It’s a recreational sport, there are no given “rights”." That's literally exactly what the title of the post is. A guy saying, "hey I'm going to go ahead and leave because I don't like the way the organization is run anymore." To the extent that the organization is run with a guilty until proven innocent mantra, I highly doubt the OP will be the only one deciding not to participate in said organization. You can take the attitude of "good riddance" or "don't let the door hit you on the way out" that's fine. But I promise a lot of folks will see it as a bad thing, not a good thing, if/when membership declines significantly. Lots of folks here on BOS are interested in the long term health of the sport and would therefore be interested to hear about things that might drive away a significant number of peers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ski6jones Posted October 22, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2021 Retaining members is easier than attracting new members if past performance is an indicator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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