2021 is my last year of USAWS

[The_MS]

Maybe I could try Montenegro

[jayski]

@elr in Canada it is NOT mandated for EVERYONE....available and suggested, but Board members and coaches last I was informed was mandatory...

[BraceMaker]

@jayski can we infer their gymnastic coaches weren’t treating their athletes like whores and as such do not feel the need to regulate?

[BigGerald3]

How do I become a supporting member? I am Big Gerald’s dad, 58 y/o, don’t even ski anymore. I don’t judge, dockstart, drive etc. We have a family membership and one of the clubs requires USAWS memberships to even ride in the boat and video. Not even sure they would accept a supporting membership but thought I would ask. I’m also a doc with a license to practice medicine and cut people open and I have to take SS? Utter nonsensical BS!

 

Rant over, thanks in advance for responding, love the site and discussions. Thanks Mr Horton!

[ETskier]

I've been a judge since 1988, judged in 7 tournaments this year, 5 class L. Not only do I have to get a background check to continue, I have to pay for it, $30. Sucks.

[ETskier]

This post will probably get me in trouble. Latest USAWS news is 2 large funding grants we are going to get from Womens Sports for girls and Adaptive Sports. Hell, I'm all for it, good exposure for us (We might even get 5 new lifelong members out of it.), right up until it becomes mandated all clubs must hold an event.

[BigGerald3]

LOL!

I actually got a “WTF” on the above post. Not quite sure if that’s good or bad?

Have a nice evening ya’ll.

[sunperch]

WOW! I did a cursory reading of the USAWS update but did not click on all of the links. How are they going to complete the background checks for all of the officials. Who is going to police that all are compliant with the background checks? Do background checks that many of us have passed for employment count? I guarantee that my young adult children who are assistant judges will not take the time or spend the $$ to complete a background check. Another reason for them to leave the sport.

[braindamage]

This thread reminds me of what happened to a private golf CC near me. Members got into a major fight over a relatively small issue…lawsuits, bankruptcy, and soon they have no CC.

 

Sad…

[sunperch]

@braindamage I have a family of 4 judges, that is an additional $120 for the background check mandate. The governing body of USAWS capitulating to the mandate is what is causing the fight. How do LOCs have enough judges to run a tournament if enough judges decide it is not worth the hassle/extra$$ to maintain their judge's rating?

[ALPJr]

Many other sport and officiating organizations have been doing background checks for admin’s, coaches, officials, etc. as a requirement for decades. The only difference I see happening now is that many are also starting to include health and safety training requirements for those groups and athletes as well.

[braindamage]

@sunperch the point I’m trying to make is that the response is disproportionate, and is shown through anger and bitterness, which doesn’t create any reasonable environment for resolution or compromise.

 

I don’t have the history, so I hear from a lot of the posters here that this is the “straw that broke the camel’s back”. This is an understandable situation.

 

I simply hope that this straw isn’t what splinters the waterski community, which is undoubtedly shrinking into yet smaller and competing communities…which will accelerate the degradation of participation already in motion.

 

Or as my dad used to say…”cut off your nose to spite your face”.

 

And because the over-arching social and political environment promotes anger and outrage as the normative response, it is unlikely to be resolved through understanding, grace, and compromise. That’s why I say it’s “sad”.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@braindamage can you explain exactly how we can compromise with a mandate from an organization that takes no input from its members and doesn't care what those members do?

 

This is not "the straw that broke the camel's back", its the extra bushel of bricks that broke the camel's back. Most members understand the intent and goals of the safesport training as well intentioned and generally a good thing, even if it is overbearing. But what is the rationale for a new criminal background check for all judges? What is the urgent need? Who is being protected here?

 

Also consider that this new requirement for criminal background checks for ALL judges has not been communicated to any members and is now only coming up since someone clicked 3 links deep in "updated" Safesport requirement document.

 

Just think about the first tournament of the year and all judges are surprised to learn they cannot judge unless/until they submit to a criminal background investigation. How many of those judges will simply say "Nah, never mind, I'll just ski"? How many college kids working diligently on their judges ratings will simply not bother with one more ridiculous requirement?

 

I agree it is sad that our governing organization is doing so many things to destroy itself.

[The_MS]

As usual Crickets from the BOD

[skierjp]

Also, a driver has to pay and have his MVR run every 2 years.What does a speeding ticket have to do with driving a boat in a tournament? A little on the touchy side but what does a DUI have to do with driving a boat on a private lake? I get it if the tournament was on a public waterway.

[kurt]

so now i gotta pay for an mvr every 2 years , pay background check every year and added a pile of paperwork to the 5 events i have at my lake every year.

And it shifted all the liability away from the organization onto me.

it makes me so happy.

[jayski]

@kurt I agree 100% I asked early on about liability to participants, but add to that the way the policies are written organizers are now liable if they fail to follow, mandate, and POLICE the participants.

 

I have already informed our SC regional Prez my site will NOT be holding AWSA/USA Waterski sanctioned events, will not be joining as a club, and I personally will not be joining or participating/officiating/driving/serving as PanAm in events...

[Jody_Seal]

 

[skidawg]

If the majority of ski sights would jump in like "The Wood"...The powers at be would be forced to listen. Instead of falling in line, hit them in the pocket books...FORCE the pecker heads in charge to pay attention. And yes I meant to say peckerheads speaking about those in charge

[The_MS]

Oh, but they have not seen any membership decline due to the policy implementation.

[The_MS]

What’s the big deal? Just enter your Social Security number into the totally safe web site and pay the 30.00 every 2 years. Are you flippen crazy?

[The_MS]

An announcement will be going out to all sport discipline presidents, judges committees and judges in the coming weeks. Below is the gist of it.

 

Recently, the United States Olympic & Paralympic Committee made changes to their bylaws relative to background checks for all adults in “position of authority”, including game referees and judges. This change has also affected USA Water Ski & Wake Sports’ background check policy which beginning on January 1, 2022 now requires that all judges 18 and older pass a criminal background screen prior to serving in their position. This change was made in order to be in compliance with the USOPC requirement.

 

As an organization we pushed back on this and submitted an appeal arguing our judges did not fall into a position of authority as they serve on a panel and one judge cannot individually influence the outcome of an event or have specific authority over an athlete. Unfortunately, that appeal was denied by the USOCP. As a national governing body under the oversight of the USOPC, we are required to follow these policies and procedures and thus had to amend our bylaws and policies & procedures in order to be compliant.

 

We understand this is an additional burden on our volunteer judges and will be discussing with the USA-WSWS board of directors in January some options to help offset this cost in the future. In the meantime, we are offering all USA-WSWS judges $15 off their annual USA-WSWS membership with a unique promo code to be used at renewal.

[ALPJr]

I have no issues with background checks. I’ve had them for baseball, basketball, and employment. Pretty much every organized sport organization has them for officials, admin’s and coaches. Every two years doesn’t sound right though. In other sports it’s done once, at the beginning of your tenure as long as you stay active.

[braindamage]

@Bruce_Butterfield you make my point exactly. It takes two to tango, so my note wasn’t intended as a message to only one side of this.

 

My post is more about the posture of the posts that I see on this thread, from all sides. A lot of outrage, anger, bitterness, and justification of each side’s position.

 

I don’t have a ready solution, and if I did, I wouldn’t post it here as it would be torn apart. I’m just sad because I love this sport and am worried that this type of dispute can escalate beyond a reasonable conclusion.

[The_MS]

@braindamage a reasonable solution would be not to implement the SS training to all skiers.

A reasonable solution would be not to have back ground checks for judges that sit on a tower for 3 hours alone counting buoys.

[thager]

Ben Dover?

[Jody_Seal]

Just another tidbit: if every card carrying member of usaws refused to rejoin and pay the next cycle.

Usaws still gets enough government funding to maintain its enities!

In reality USAWS needs not paying members to survive.

[MrJones]

How does something that is in it's essence a simple a hobby/sport for 99.9% of participants become this overregulated? We must have invited this in a some point. Can it be rolled back?

[The_MS]

@MrJones they certainly have the ability to roll it back as proved by the fact that they don’t require international skiers to do SS training. Unfortunately they are so dug in to their view that they won’t change and eat crow. Free money can really mess up people’s thought process.

[Mrs_MS]

@The_MS

And we all (or most of us) know NOTHING IS FREE!

[Killer]

@ms I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's coming to Canada as well. You can run but you definitely cannot hide

Just for board members and officials at this point so don't dare ski or enter any events.

 

 

[ALPJr]

In my experience most sport org’s or employers have paid for the required background check. Im guessing that for sport org’s they recoup the cost over time through dues and assessments. Out of pocket cost is ~$75 for a bc so if the net out of pocket cost to waterski officials is 15 to 30 bucks that’s not outrageous. Imo somehow that cost should be covered by the organization at either the national or regional level, every two years doesn’t sound right if the person remains active.

[A_B]

Somewhere sometime somebody with money and influence must have had a bad experience and now the majority pay the price for the minorities actions..

 

This sounds like most "feel good" or "good cause" laws that negatively impact the moral majority and likely will have no impact on future events other than the thinning out the moral majority that are not passionately committed to tournament water skiing.

 

Does the management of the USAWSA understand the legal ramifications if any of the information found in background searches is somehow leaked? I know a few guys who made bad choices while growing up who paid the price for it and are now living a completley different life with families. If this information is not kept confidential by the mandaters they should pay a huge price to those betrayed by them.

 

Where will they draw the red lines and will they be consistent? I had a friend that went through a nasty divorce where the wife went to the local Abuse Shelter making claims that could not be substantiated and later proved to be total bs. Is that guy now out? What about other misdemeanor crimes, driving while impaired, etc....

 

If the governing body sets this in motion and it doesn't stop the next case of abuse, then aren't they liable if this sweeping requirement doesn't snag the next abuser?

Some parents will be relying on them to protect their child and will look to place blame elsewhere, rather than really doing their homework in assessing where they leave their prodigy for tutilege. You know, the whole responsibility thing...

 

 

 

 

[scuppers]

Mandate common sense parenting.

[The_MS]

It’s only 90 minutes

It’s only 30.00 for MVR

It’s only 30.00 for background check

It’s only 10.00 for judges clinic fee

It’s only 20.00 for driver clinic fee

It’s only 30 minutes for recurrent SS training

It’s only 85.00 to renew membership

It’s only 25.00 to have your score posted

It’s only 150.00 to sign up for a record event

 

This list will continue to grow

[skiep]

Okay. I'm a lake owner. I put on a Pro-Am

(Cash Prize) a Regular Record tournament, A 55 K tournament And a "C" tournament. I am very close to ending this. My lake has many Senior and regular Judges, Senior and regular drivers , Safety's and this is getting out of hand. Are we going to the World Games? Olymipic? Hell no. I do the DMV, the SS, 4- Clinic's First aid CPR all the Damn time and it's getting old.

Some one tell me why i should keep doing this? 850-545-5795 Keith Albritton

 

[The_MS]

That’s some pretty big hitters on board with The Wood,, 38, and Emerald. Our site will be hurting with me on the sidelines. Sr judges are going to become valuable. I thought that promo boats would be the big down fall. Records need lots of Sr judges to run an event.

[Wish]

Wow..it’s one thing to have some members drop but entire lakes and events!!!! This is baaaad. Somebody needs to pay attention, BUT....

 

 

 

 

[jlittle]

@The_MS

"As an organization we pushed back on this and submitted an appeal arguing our judges did not fall into a position of authority… Unfortunately, that appeal was denied by the USOCP. As a national governing body under the oversight of the USOPC, we are required to follow these policies and procedures…"

 

Why are we required to follow these policies? Why did our governing body side with USOPC? Why couldn’t they have seen where this will end and stood behind the membership? This would have been the perfect time to sever ties. Unless there’s some small print we don’t know about. Did we sign in blood? But it’s most likely money.

 

How ‘bout

Due to your denial with regard to USA-WSWS request to reconsider background checks for all adult judges we regret to inform you we will no longer continue to support USOPC. Effective January 1, 2022 we will no longer be part of your organization.

 

[lpskier]

@jayski Maybe it’s your site. You sound exactly like Joe five years ago! Let me know when you’re having your going out of business sale; you have a lot of nice stuff. :-)

[The_MS]

@jlittle unfortunately nobody we elected has the kohonas to do it. You are spot on

[lpskier]

@skiep You should do it so we can keep coming to your lake.

[jlittle]

@Wish

It's just the tip of the iceberg. I can think of tournaments in Helena, Kalispell, Greybull and possibly one or two in E.WA which will end. Why, because we have a hard time getting officials filled out for the number of divisions required to just run these events. There's a reason in the tourney guide we went to TBD for running order. I, along with the other chiefs, have spent many hours prior to tourney day trying to figure out running orders so we don't have to change drivers & judges every two skiers.

 

So now, we have background checks. Skier 'A' drives 500 miles, Skier 'B' 400 miles & skier 'C' 250 miles to ski and help out where they can. We as chief officials are relying on these skiers and their ratings to make this tournament happen. Skier A & C have not completed the background check and are, now, not able to help. The tourney is a bust.

 

Do we refund all the entries? Does the sanction fee get refunded? Surely our sympathetic governing body will understand and take care of the LOC. And you know where sympathy falls in the dictionary?

[sunperch]

Not to mention the number of judges that it takes to run Regionals and Nationals. It always seems to be a huge effort to get the correct number of Regulars and Seniors given the judges schedule has to accommodate skiers conflict and family member conflict of interest if the whole family skis.

[jayski]

@lpskier little shocked by that comment and honeslty little put out by it, guess I read you wrong for a while...there is ZERO similar, the past issue he had was no where near the issue/s currently...the big difference is I LOVE THIS SPORT...I will have events, I will continue to try to grow and promote the sport in my area, or wherever I am, I will continue to do all I can FOR THE SPORT including dumping enough personal money and time to give my wife fits...it just won't be under the umbrella of USA Waterski.

[lpskier]

@jayski My apologies. No offense intended. It just occurred to me that both you and the prior owner got to a point where you both had enough of organized water skiing. You (and Joe before you) did/do a lot for the sport and probably give way more than you get.

[jayski]

@lpskier thank you for the clarification and olive branch, Understand I have not had enough of organized waterskiing, I have had enough of the current organizations. There will always be merit and need for organizations, I just disagree with what is currently available and offering...

[The_MS]

@Gloersen All taxpayer money. They get extra comp for every organization they rope into a deal. They lobby the insurance companies to only cover organizations that play along. They created themselves to create this mess. That’s all you have to do is follow the money to see what a boondoggle SS is

[A_B]

I guess if some people have the pipe dream of an Olympic event, they need to play the game and make the rest of the non-dreamers pay the price. Again, other sports where parents drop their next gold medal prodigy off and let others raise their kids.

 

Interesting note about the CEO above, she was an Obama appointee. That is all I need to know.... that is as close to politics as I will go, my Midwestern values showing up...

 

 

[DW]

FWIW - back in the late 70's the Indycar team owners were fed up with the sanctioning body of the sport. One of the team owners, Dan Gurney (arguably one of the very best racers ever and a super nice guy) wrote what is referred to as the 'white paper' in 1978. From that, a new sanctioning body CART was created that launched the sport to a very successful stretch and solved many of the issues the team owners were upset with. Reading the rationale behind the paper from Dan sounds eerily similar to the issues in this and several of the threads on this site that all the BOS members discuss.

http://allamericanracers.com/formation-of-cart-dan-gurney/