Boat comparison thoughts please

[DP70]

In my area there are a couple of boats available that I'd appreciate some insight / feedback on:

1994 Sanger DX II w/new carbureted 5.7L Mercruiser engine (70hrs) - boat has 700 hrs

1993 Ski Centurion B/R XP w/original Indmar 351 (assuming carbureted) - boat has 800 hrs

My understanding is wood stringers in each.

Are there any red flags to look for on either of these boats?

 

Main usage will be on a large lake - not a lot of other boat traffic. It can whip up from time to time.

Lots of free skiing and will have kids of various ages learning & riding behind it.

None of the primary users are short line skiers & we likely won't have the time in the next decade to put aside to get there - so that's not a concern.

Centurion has single axle trailer. Sanger has double axle trailer. Both look to be original with the boats.

 

What are the wakes like? From what I've read - we're leaning towards the Centurion. Also, because of the bow space.

I've read that some bow riders are susceptible to water coming over the front - is this model year Centurion one of those?

Which boat will have the softest / smallest wake at longer lines?

 

If you have a minute & have experience with either or both of these models of boats I'd appreciate a "If I were you I'd buy the ___________." And include a couple of reasons why please.

 

Thank-you.

 

[MDB1056]

Got any pics? Related, why are you focused on only those two boats? There are MANY other boats of similar vintage that are all glass construction that avoids any risk of wood. If you’re not up to the task of possible wood repair ( which is not for the faint of heart- I’ve done it) then don’t go there. Especially since you’re not extreme skiers you’re not in need of crazy expensive newer boats either. You can even go older and be all glass. I have an 83 Stars & Stripes that’s all glass I’m getting ready to sell. Bottom line I’d look at a lot more options than just those two.

[Wish]

Sanger- really small wakes that are concrete curb hard. Rocket ship. Stable. Solid. Deep V all the way to the transom so most likely ok for rough water. Stellar bare footing boat. Skied and drove one several years in a row for 2 straight weeks each time. Can’t speak to Centurion.

[Andre]

I'd keep looking for anything wood free.Prostar 205 of same era would fit your needs IMO.

[Rednucleus]

I had a 95 Sanger DLX (open bow). Great family boat, above average in rougher water; my buddy loved it for barefooting; had it on Koreis a few times, no complaints from skiers especially at 34mph, 28 off & shorter.

[RAWSki]

Had a 93 Centurion BR XP (with a Merc) and really liked it for the course and on our small lake---- But in your case I would lean toward the Sanger.

[hammerski]

I sold both for years, both good quality boats that used the “green” lifetime treated wood and fiberglass wrapped. Open lake/rough water, hands down the Sanger. The centurion xp be will have a softer wake, but put some people in the bow and they can get soaked on a rough day. Double check for saltwater use(harsh on the engine and trailer). Then be sure to drive the boat. Should have smooth power, tranny smooth shifting and quiet, no crazy vibrations from the prop. Good luck in your search! ??

[ReallyGottaSki]

As been said I would go Sanger. Solid build and does everything well.

like floating on air ride. Build quality is impressive, unless neglected the wood lasts. Wakes, suit family skiing at all speeds and ages, and for higher end skiing, can be one way or the other depending if it has the BF plate or not.

 

Centurion not bad for its vintage but will hammer you in the chop and not likely going to use the open bow as much as you think. between nose dives and compromised visibility.

 

Just get a cheap pontoon for taking people 'out' and sweep up the Cheetos easy and keep the ski tug for ski sessions and evening blubs

 

A Std 351 does not push that falcon style hull very fast, lots of drag, so basic footing in the high thirties with three onboard approaches a wide open affair

 

the 350 in the lower drag Sanger had more reserve for recreational footing.

 

Sanger glides, the Centurion hammers the water into submission.

[DP70]

Thank-you all for your thoughts & recommendations. Much appreciated.

 

I'm up in western Canada - very limited options for used boats up here right now.

[Rednucleus]

Please post a pic of the Sanger if you have one available; thanks

[swc5150]

I would think someone dropping a new engine into the Sanger would also have the stringers given the green light? They spray a lot of resin over those treated timbers, so I don't think I'd be too worried. It's different than buying an early 80's boat. My preference would be the DX, as I never really cared for that era Centurion. Sanger is a nice little boutique builder that makes a very well made, great quality product.

[jpattigr]

@DP70 Sent you a PM, friend is selling a 99 Prostar 205 near Calgary, about 600 Hours.

 

[Wish]

I believe Sanger stuck with wood stringer on purpose long after others went wood free. Reason; better ride qualities (dampened vibration) and they pretty much perfected making them last “forever” so to speak.

[6balls]

If not mistreated the Sanger stringers are fine. @wish is right they stuck with them when all others went glass for specific reasons.

Sanger’s are better in rough water. Wake is tiny—firm at short lines but just fine longer. At footing speeds the wake doesn’t exist.

Tracks incredibly well—don’t expect any bat-turns for fun.

As for interior appointments/carpet/gauges/upholstery both boats I believe produced at fine line industries in Merced, CA. They are not big 3 level, but just fine I had a mint Centurion for 28 years no problem…wood stringers and all. A good friend and great footer has a DXII.

Prop choice is key on the DXII if it’s a 5.7. The 6.2 rips. The 5.7 with the wrong prop not that quick.

[DP70]

Thank-you again guys - I admit I was a little seduced by the bowrider, but I understand for where & how the boat would be used the Sanger is likely the better option. I'm good with that. I'm going to have a look at it tomorrow.

 

@Rednucleus - I'll post a pic once I have a look at it

 

@6balls - what is a good prop for a 5.7 motor in the DXII?

 

[6balls]

@dP70 I don't have specifics, just know that the 5.7 didn't seem that strong on my buddies boat and he re-propped and it made a big difference. Other friend had a 6.2 and it was very quick.

Have not been in either boat now in a few years life circumstances changed and I don't see them often anymore. It's not that the 5.7 wasn't ok, just wasn't that impressive and as a barefooter I always like more juice! Sometimes a prop is all it takes.

See what is on there, drive it, see if it's all good. If it's a little soft for your liking, you can probably prop your way out of it.

[Timr71]

Hi @DP70 - I have a 1993 Ski Centurion Open bow Falcon. I can concur with what everyone is saying here. I'm a novice 50 year old course skier and I like the wake on my boat for skiing. We use the boat as a family boat too. The open bow was what sold my wife and allowed me to get a 3-event tournament boat. We're on a big public lake and the ride is rough! Like rough enough that you won't want to go for a long ride in choppy conditions. We tend to play in areas where we know the water will stay smooth. If we have to transit the big water I many times follow my friends in their 23 ft Cobalt. Keeps me from being beat to death. The front open part of the boat is quasi-usable. It's a great place to lay out and relax when on anchor...and I let my daughter ride up there when there's no other boats around. But she rode up there once with a boyfriend she brought to the lake and when I pulled back to idle speed, I had water come over the low slopped nose. And crossing your own wake on a pick up requires some precision even with the front area empty. Engine wise, I just put vortec heads and a new intake on the 5.7. Things seem to be a lot perkier now, but I've only driven it once since that work was done. There's a few more HP to be found if you're willing to do some engine work. My cousin owns a 1996 Falcon Sport that he ordered from the factory...his stringers are original and solid, but that because it's been garaged it's entire life. My boat had a full stringer up rebuild. It started life (in our family) as a barn find that had been run aground, so lots of work had to be done. I hope this helps. The Sanger is a great boat too.

 

 

[Rednucleus]

My DLX II hit 46 full throttle with stock prop

[Wish]

@Timr71 thats a sharp lookn boat.

[DP70]

 

Here is a pic of the Sanger - saw it yesterday. Looks real solid. Cosmetically it needs some work, but functionally the boat is solid. At the right number I believe it would be a solid option.

 

Then yesterday another option popped up - a 1999 Centurion Eclipse - step over bow rider. I've done a search on here & there is generally positive feedback about this version of Centurion - flat wakes & family friendly. Does it have glass stringers & EFI for 1999? Is this model less likely to bury the nose than other models?

Would you consider the Centurion over the Sanger function & performance wise? @Rednucleus @hammerski @RAWSki @ReallyGottaSki

 

[Wish]

Here is a look at the 2000 back when Waterski Mag was giving mostly unbiased opinions.

 

[DP70]

Thank-you @Wish - you're a gold mine for these older boat reviews. Great info.

 

I'm still hoping to hear from a couple of people that have owned or driven one - but it sounds like a solid option.

I'm going to look at it today.

[hammerski]

Eclipse direct drive and Eclipse Vdrive are all glass. They also have a V that goes all the way to the transom, nice ride in rough water and small soft wakes. Hope that helps ???

[ReallyGottaSki]

Having never gotten close to an eclipse i would defer to @hammerski

[DP70]

Hey Guys - I’ve seen both boats - boat are decent

DX2 is closed bow, interior is in good condition & comes with 2 covers - it’s been maintained better

Eclipse has the step over bow, no cover, interior needs work & Bimini needs replacing

Hull & engine hours similar on both boats

Open bow has it’s pros & cons but will likely be $2K-$3K more to get into

 

With respect to wake - I understand the Eclipse has the better wake - but how much better?

There’s lots out there about how the DX2 has a ‘hard’ wake / curb, etc. Is that only at 34 & 36, or at all speeds? How about the 24-32 range for beginners & intermediates - is it a curb at those speeds too?

What makes a wake hard vs soft? Is it the shape? A hard wake has more of a peak (inverted V) and a soft wake is more rounded (inverted U)?

 

Primary use is a large lake that can whip up from time to time but is not super busy & we don’t need to transport people - we can play right off the beach / dock.

 

[6balls]

Longer line, slower speed might actually be better on the Sanger--short lines and high speeds it's a very low but pretty hard wake. Will they put it in the water for you? Ski it if they will allow as a cash buyer. The Sanger will for sure be better in rough water.

The Sanger turns heads everywhere too, kinda fun.

The Sanger has more V-entry at the bow. Cuts the chop, tracks great, but the wake will not be as flat as the flatter hulls--which throw a smaller wake but suck on chop.

It's all in what you want. Make the seller put it in the water, go drive it/ski it cash in hand. If you like it, buy it.

[DP70]

Thank-you @6balls.

Tried to do a test drive today - so busy at the lake they closed the ramp. Lot & overflow completely full. Trying for an evening in the next few days. Definitely will put it in the water first. Leaning DX2 right now - that’s what we tried to test today. Most behind the boat will be <32 @ longer lines for the first few years.

If we end up with a few keeners in a few years we can always upgrade the boat then.

[RAWSki]

I owned a 2000 eclipse with the Merc Scorpion MPI. But I have seen some with 5.7L carbs as well. Great slalom boat with plenty of room and storage. Everyone that skied that boat complimented the wake and pull. (Some credit goes to the AccuSki cruise system). For a boat almost 21' it provides a nice smaller boat wake without any spray. However it's not great in rough water. Good Luck

[Wish]

So I don’t know anyone that’s tried a diff prop on the Sanger to soften wakes but that might help. I’ve heard that helps the Gekko that suffers the same problem. In reality, you will get used to the Sanger wake and it will be a non issue. What you may notice if you get behind, let’s say, a 97’ SN 196 is how much you have grown as a skier getting into that perfect stacked position before you hit the first wake and then realize there’s nothing there behind the 196. A good thing. Get good behind the Sanger and all other boats wakes will feel non existent. Yes they are hard and curb like but the size of them can be and often is smaller then maybe even the Eclipse. From what you’ve said and the posts so far, Sanger seems the winner.

[DP70]

I've been on holiday for a couple weeks so the boat search took a hiatus.

 

Water tested the Sanger but it has an engine issue - it'll likely need a water test with an engine tech, but that isn't happening any time soon - all shops are slammed.

Centurion Eclipse has good bones but interior is hammered - immediate full replacement required - and owner is still holding out for a premium price at this point.

 

Another boat in the area is a 1994 Tige 2000 SLM (closed bow) - it looks to be in excellent shape w/350 Magnum power plant. I'm going to have a look at it tomorrow. Anything I should be wary about on this boat? I haven't found a lot of info online about them apart from them being based on the Centurion Falcon hull. How are the wakes? Anyone have any experience with them?

 

[RAWSki]

The SLM is pretty much identical to the Falcon. They did different interior vinyl and decals but that's about it. If it's well cared for it might be a good starter. It's comparable to the Falcon XP you originally looked at. Back to wood stringers and floors so check that out.

[dvskier]

Pretty sure that Tige offered a lifetime warranty on their stringers at some point to combat the “wood stringers are bad” hype. Not sure exactly when that happened but I’ve never heard of a Tige boat having stringer issues. The slalom wake is superb and you won’t be disappointed but they are a rough rider in open water on a big lake. Also very low freeboard, you have to keep the nose up in open water or the crew will be soaked.

[HMan66]

At my lake we ski behind 2 bubble butt Nautiques, my 96 Prostar 190, and a Tige FSLM Comp. The Nautiques track the best and the wakes are bubbly and soft. The Prostar seems to have a slightly smaller and still soft wake (if you have that ski on edge) but doesn’t track as well as the Nautiques. The Tige has a taller but still soft wake but tracking isn't as good as the Prostar or Nautique. Any chop we get from the wind (and it’s fairly minimal) is felt the most in the Tige. The Tige also has the sloped down nose like the Centurion so keep that in mind. If you’re not course skiing I’d go for the boat that’s been taken care of and maintained properly. No ski boat likes big water.

[bananaron]

Test drive and ski it is without a doubt the best way to find your boat.I have had numerous boats over the last several yrs and they all ski a little different.Its just like what ski to buy.....demo it if u can.

[DP70]

Definitely going to test any boat I purchase.

 

Eclipse sold for more than I was willing to pay

Missed on a 93 Prostar 205 in great shape as I couldn’t see it before leaving for holiday

 

Sanger is still an option, still waiting on the engine issue to be resolved before another water test

Will look at the Tige in a couple of days - it appears immaculate from photos

 

 

Came across a project boat today - 1996 Nautique. It has the GT-40 but will likely need to be re-powered - it spent a lot of hours in salt water and it shows on the engine. I can likely get it for next to nothing as I’m familiar to the seller.

I know the golden window for Nautique of that era is 97-01 - but how is the 1996 wake? Still OK, or avoid? I recall there was a chunk of years in that era that was ‘avoid’ - was that pre-07 or post-01?

Any other potential issues with the 1996 hull? Good project boat or keep looking?

Definitely not a chance to test this one as it’s not running.

[ALPJr]

96 SN is a great boat imo.