Regionals / Nationals / Schizophrenia

[MattP]

If we want to keep Regionals I think skiers should be required to ski Regionals every other year to attend Nationals, before we just throw it into the trash bin as an event. I enjoy regionals, but it is 5 days in the Southern Region and that is brutal especially turning around and going to Nationals. I would more than likely still attend Regionals ever year if the requirement to attend goes away.

 

Only 2 open skiers skied in the Southern Region. 1 in Mens Slalom and 1 in Mens Jump I am submitting a rules change this year to make Open skiers attend Regionals. I see it as a disservice to the host club & would give the kids more interaction with our elite skiers.

[ski6jones]

I like the idea of keeping Regionals and raising the entry requirements for Nationals. I've gone to Nationals a few times because it was convenient and a fun experience, but I realistically have no chance to podium. Maybe top 10-15 in each division should qualify for Nationals. That would also raise Regionals stature as a tournament because it would be the big show for more people. I know that won't make the sponsors happy, but that goes back to the as yet unanswered question "What do we want Nationals to be?".

 

[BS74]

When you lower the standards and qualifications for Regionals and Nationals in order to get the numbers up, it is no longer an elite event. I qualified for my first Nationals back in 1983 (Duquoin,IL) and a EP was 2@35 for qualification and 4@28 for Regionals. That was Senior Men(now Men 3) and I was 38yo. For 2021 Men3 only need a rank score of 3.5@32 and if you can walk, you qualify for the Regionals(4@15). Yes, I understand the need to grow the sport and I want more young people involved and I'm ok with lower qualifications for them and others, particularly for Regionals. For Nationals, qualifications need to be raised and if I meet those qualifications, then I should not have to go to Regionals.

[JackQ]

I think too many lose sight that in the 1980's there was a large demographic anomaly, the baby boom.

When I was in Men's 1, it was the biggest divisions, same for MENs 2,3,4,5 and I believe Men's 6. Now in Men's 7, there are more in the division at the Nationals other than Men's 5.

Yes, there are many issues that need to be addressed, but having 100+ skiers in one division is not likely to happen again. It was an issue of itself, different lakes, numerous different drivers, significant different conditions. Phil Adam's had the best solution, take top 5 from each lake and have ten in a "finals", same lake, driver, conditions

[LeonL]

Yeah, once upon a time (can't remember the year, old age) or whether it was Regionals or Nationals, but it was at Okeheelee. M3 skiing on 2 lakes, a guy from 50 - 100 seeds ends up tied for 4th or 5th with a high seed. Runoff happens on the high seed lake. Shock to his system!

[ScarletArrow]

This is off topic somewhat… but every skier on the podium in the pic above is on the same ski. Impressive.

 

Back to our regularly scheduled rant.

[MISkier]

@ScarletArrow, if I recall correctly, the guys on the podium were the only competitors in that division at that event. There was no one else.

[skierjp]

@MISkier The point is they all are on the same ski. I believe everyone of them can run deep 39 and beyond

[The_MS]

@LeonL That was Rafe Armstrong in 04. He hadn’t skied in tourneys the previous year but got a last minute EP and was 3rd off the dock on the turnpike.

Ise took him out in the run off

[klindy]

Slightly smaller group and all skied on the same lake but Mike Morgan went off the dock #6 in M2 in 1992 in Fort Walton Beach. Mike finished first out of 71 skiers. I remember since I met him for the first time as I went off the dock #5....Got to hear my name as the "leader" for the total time it took me to get out of the lake after falling. Then heard Mike's name for the next 6+ hours!

[skiinxs]

Anyone passing through the St. Louis area on the way to nationals looking for a practice pull is welcome to stop by Lake of Dreams in Jersryville, IL.

[TravisNW]

The Western region is to big! It covers more area than any other region. Dividing it would help. That said maybe requiring a state championship to advance to Nationals makes more sense. It could really bring skiers from each state together to put on a larger than normal tournament and travel times would be far less excessive.

 

I skipped regionals due to the 18 hour drive. The west holds regionals at this site more than any other site due to a routine shortage of bids and the willingness and generosity of Laku to step up. In recent history Laku has held regionals more than any other club in the west and for that I am grateful and applaud them, But the fact is when regionals are held in Colorado the turnout is lower.

[scoke]

@ScarletArrow

(Not a hijack wasn’t Cade on a Deniali for quite a while and skiing a bunch of buoys or am I misremembering?)

[gjohnson]

I noticed that as well. Cale was absolutely riding Denali skis for a while.

[MISkier]

Well, I know that Cale was on the Denali at the 2018 Nationals and skied well enough to make the cut into the America's Cup at that event. Here is the video. Skip to 2:42:00 to see his pass (which follows Brent Triplett's round on a Denali at 2:33:00 - also making the cut for America's Cup).

 

[Horton]

Come on guys this is a relatively pertinent thread about the state of the sport. Can we not squirrel off on who's skiing on what. Create another threat if you want to talk about it

[Dirt]

@Horton ok I threaten to tune your fin when you are not looking next tournament

[scoke]

Good call on the thread hijack.

Yesterday I was at nationals watching Lake 1 practice. Goode’s and D3’s. Dominated over 5 hours. Saw a few HO’s but 2-3 guys kept blowing out the tails. Didn’t see any reflex nor deniali skis. Suspect we won’t see any of those skis on the podiums either.

 

 

Nationals: I don’t understand “make it smaller to be more competitive” logic.

 

The top 1-8 guys are competing with each other.

The top 25-30 guys are competing with each other.

If you made a cut line at #11, you actually make the tournament overall less competitive due to 1) less competitors 2) less chances of guys to compete amongst themselves.

 

If you want to make it a festival, make it Level 5 and beyond with a regionals requirement.

 

Can someone please layout the logic of how does it work to be more competitive while being smaller?

 

[Dirt]

@scoke I agree. The more skiers in your division, the more of a social and festival event it becomes.

[ALPJr]

I think in the East, the Regionals are most important for most skiers that attend. Nationals seems to be another level of commitment, in dedication to training, expenses and time (off/travel). In another thread I read that Bell Aqua is hosting the ‘22 Reg’s. My guess is that the attendance will be high in the West regardless of Nat’s.

[Dirt]

If you have not been to Bel Acqua I encourage you to attend. It is one of my favorite places to ski. Great people and excellent conditions with plenty of lakes to get practice rides and a lot to do in the area.

[dave2ball]

If you want to make it more competitive how about not allowing MM or MW dropping down into there age group for regionals. Many people don’t go because it’s a waste of time to ski knowing that you don’t have a chance when MM ski there age division.

If MM were forced to ski in MM I believe the numbers would come up in Men’s 3,4 and 5 because it would be true competition. The majority would be with in 3-4 buoys of each other. Just my .002.

[BraceMaker]

not to say I have fixes but please counter these ideas.

 

Make nationals qualifying a 2 or 3 year qualification with some caveat of minimum events say 4 events. May reduce regionals some but there eill always be the leople who need a 4th event.

 

I used to be fairly competitive in archery. Events at a certain level had contigency cash from the manufacturers. If I was shooting a new Mathews and placed there was money. Do this at regionals only. Make a pot for people to want to go to regionals.

 

Find a couple bucks per memeber or a few cents an event and apply it to a bucket for regionals.

 

Modify states and regionals. Some states have more than other. Why not turn the most popular states into a nexus for the region. In itself this is a competition. In each region whatever state does "best" wins regionals. wouldnt this average out the complaint of how large a region is by concentrating the events to the activity? And by best not top or average score but participation or entries

 

Just trying to be outside the box in some way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dave2ball]

My ski partner pointer out the schools start early in the SE. So what t about moving the nationals to an earlier date and do away with the regionals and use the states as a regional type seeding. It seems the nationals are when the majority of kids go back to school. Would that bring more skiers?

[brettmainer]

I don't know why, but schools seem to start weeks earlier than they used to around here. I remember starting the Tuesday after Labor day, but Mackenzie starts this Thursday, which is one of the reasons we are not going to Nationals this year. I believe it would help to slide regionals and nationals back a week, but I get that makes for a short season in the northern climates. No perfect answers.

[cacman]

Maybe we could move it back when all the shools have fall break. That way us Northereners get more practice time.

[jjackkrash]

Kids love regionals.

[lpskier]

@dave2ball We tried that. It was called the Level 10 rule. The Level 10 rule was repealed because of the mischief it created with overall among other reasons.