I'll say it, "Nautique wakes suck at some speeds/lengths" - anyone disagree ?

[dbutcher]

Lefty, I am going to send you a private message. There are some things to watch out for. I don't have first hand knowledge so I hesitate to publicly post.

[GWaterski]

Entered the FL State tournament last year and had my first experience behind the new Nautique. Barely made my opening 22off and was so late around 6, missed the end gates.

I asked the (well known veteran) driver "What was that??". He knew what I meant and told me "It's the new correct craft".

I didn't enter the State tournament this year due to the fear of a repeat....sorry CC. I'll stay home and ski behind my ProStar.

[ALPJr]

@thager that was me… first tourney 1989 NJ States/Garden State Games. Was launched at the gate and splashed down halfway to 1 ball. All because of my newbee novice approach to the gate.

[Horton]

So confused. Just ran up the line from 28 to 38. Wakes and pull were fine. Pull was different but not unfriendly.

[escmanaze]

So for long line slow speed guys like me, I already have the new malibu crossed off my list. Hated skiing behind it. Now I'm hearing I need to also cross the new Nautique off my list. That's fine, I want a tower and an open bow anyway.

 

But what is the verdict on the new Mastercraft? Did the long line low speed wakes get ruined with their 2021 changes? We were told when it came out that they should be just as good. Is that proving to be true? I know that from 2014-2020 I skied a couple of those mastercrafts and loved both of them. Still the only boat to rival my 97 SNOB wakes that I have skied (haven't skied a cp, but see note above about tower and open bow). So does my search need to be only 2014-2020 MC? Or can it be more generically 2014+ MC?

[dave2ball]

@escmanaze look at an open bow 200. You can get a tower and the wakes are good at slower speeds along with longer rope lengths.

[lpskier]

You’ll get used to skiing behind any of the big three (manufacturers) tournament boats. I wouldn’t make my purchase decision based on the feel of the wake alone. If you are a tournament skier there is a lot to be said for skiing behind the boat you are most likely to ski behind in the tournaments you’re likely to attend, or behind the boat you think has the “worst” wake. That’s called “preparation.”

 

If you are going to Regionals and Nationals and you don’t go practice behind the boat your division drew, you might as well stay home.

[escmanaze]

@dave2ball I have skied behind a 200. @lpskier is correct that in time, I got used to it. But it is clearly not as good as my 97 bubble or the prostar. If I didn't have a choice in the matter - sure, great, I could get used to whatever. But I do have a choice in the matter, so my plan is absolutely to make a big part of my choice be the wakes. I would much rather buy a boat with a wake I love than to buy a boat with a wake that I have to "get used to". And I don't ski tournaments, so I don't have to worry about "preparation" at all.

 

The 200 would definitely be better for when I bust out the wakeskate or wakeboard, but I'm not putting much importance at all on that anymore.

[escmanaze]

I'm probably Hi-jacking this thread. Nevermind me, I will go make a new thread.

 

Thanks

[Clydesdale]

At 215 lbs I’m at the far end of the weight range compared with the flying kids seen at nationals. I’ve skied multiple versions of the two nautiques and MC. Haven’t skied a new Txi. The differences are so subtle not worth mentioning in my opinion. But perhaps I’ve just discovered the one benefit to being a heavy slalom skier.

[Jmoski]

Pretty broad statement - would be better to have a specific model & year in mind.

 

The only long line bad Nautique wake I have skied, and then refused to ski… was the 200V, now that wake at 15/22 off was terrible.

 

As a Nautique owner it pains me to say it, but the best wake I ski behind now is my friends 2018 MC Prostar.

[RAWSki]

I think we are all spoiled.

And only like what we like ---- or are used to.

[slow]

I have a 99 bubble butt. If I were to buy a new boat now it would definitely be the new Mastercraft. Seems like a no brainer.

[ToddA]

Has anyone tried -22 rope length with maybe a 35 off setting on the micro tuners?

[BraceMaker]

@ToddA microtuner is a bit misleading because they are either engaged or disengaged.

 

When first announced it seemed like they had made settings like hydrogate 11 positions with each pass optimized.

 

but at 34 its just down for long up 15 and 22 down the rest of the passes.

 

 

 

[LeonL]

@BraceMaker then why is it that you (either manually or set it for auto) select what the line length is? Admitted ignorance on my part.

[skierjp]

@LeonL The micro tuners are either up or down according to the line length and speed. If the the rope is set to Auto Advance then the micro tuners move accordingly. Auto advance is not advisable if you are having to change the boat speed. For instance if you have a skier that has a top speed of 34 but starts at 32 auto advance could get you in trouble. The boat will think the next line should be 28 and will engage the micro tuners.. But you are actually staying at 22 but moving to 34 where the micro tuners would be up. I never use auto advance unless driving something like the Big Dawg or a pro event.

[BraceMaker]

@LeonL it has a built in metric. Some passes are engaged some are disengaged. Unless there is some background variance they sure look like they either deploy fully or retract in person. Havent put a dial indicator on them. Maybe they vary so slightly I cannot tell but it sure doesn't seem like it.

 

 

 

[ToddL]

Anyone else notice that they put in the R&D to determine the optimal micro tuner position for 43 off at 17.4 MPH vs. 19.3 MPH? LOL. (FYI, my son has run into 39.5 off at 17.5 on a trick ski.)

[Deanoski]

Bring back the 196 please

[ToddL]

OK. honest observation about the chart above... Clearly there is a point in the formation of the wake which appears at a specific distance from the boat's stern at certain speeds which the micro tuners are intended to address. I assume it has to do with the location and intensity of the prop wash hump or its resulting effect which would move accordingly.

[ALPJr]

There’s always cable parks if you don’t like crossing wakes.

[eleeski]

The new Nautique wake is absolutely not defective! It is so much better than the wakes of the past. A lot of thought and engineering went into the boat and it works! This is an excellent boat which should not be a limiting factor for any skier reading this.

 

It's OK to have favorite boats. Maybe that's not a Nautique, fine. Just don't let it get into your head and affect your performances when you must ski behind something other than your favorite.

 

Eric

[Horton]

@eleeski yes the trick wake is good

[eleeski]

It certainly is not the awesome wake of my old American Skier.

 

The trick wake is reasonably good. I do need to adjust things slightly from my MC (rope length, speed and balance) to optimize my run but there is no reason that the boat could not pull me to my best runs.

 

Same with slalom. Ski it - don't avoid it!

 

Eric

[ToddL]

My son recommended the Nautique for trick to me many years ago. He was right and still is.

[Jody_Seal]

There you have it on BOS,

BOS Straw pole consensus slalom wakes not superior overall to prior model 200 or maybe even the prior model of that! Also straw poll consensus great shortline wakes yet determined by tuner program as it changes from site to site.

Straw poll consensus boat has superior wakes for trick then all prior models. Except maybe Eric Lee's American skier.

Straw poll consensus for jumping undecided as that's another universe.

 

 

 

[ski6jones]

In the spirit of constructive criticism I wouldn't buy the new boat because of how it looks and how expensive it is. The slalom wakes are OK for me where I ski (34mph/28 and shorter), trick/jump don't matter to me. I have had two CC's and would buy the new Nautique 200 (or whatever they call it), or the new MC.

[ReallyGottaSki]

This is 34/28, friend skiing

32 off, is like cable skiing

82 supreme that was ready for the crusher 25 years ago, refurbed, then say 3500 in engine mods and modern prop.

0-30 in 2.6, 0-40 in 4.6, tops 49-50

28mph is similarly pleasant

Yes someday I may address the spray

 

But point is, for 100k and 40 years, this conversation shouldn't be happening, right?

 

 

 

[rogerw]

Used to ski behind a (i think) a 1979 ish Mastercraft with a ton of spray at 18.25m in a head wind.

Then a 2001 SN. Now that had a wake...

And the SN before that

[CBR51]

I will stick with my 04-196. For Slalom. The wakes are as good or better than any newer boat

Just have to spend some cash for zero off upgrade

[markn]

@CBR51 agree with you. Converted my 04 196 to ZO years ago. Now have single puck and she is a great slalom tug. Was over at Swiss today skiing and driving the 2021 Ski Nautique. Came home and drove my wife in our old 196. Dang I love our little, quiet, non-sea deck, soft wake, analog old 196! And agree, at 34 mph @28 off opener, the 196 has a better wake. From 32 off in, both are great, but more spray on the 196 at 38 and 39.

[jercrane]

I have a 2018 200 6.0L and start at 22/34mph. I find it punishes you for bad form. If I pull too long or I’m not in alignment I get bucked and twisted or bent over every time. On a newer Prostar I don’t have this problem, I can get away with much worse ski form at the open. So for me I find this kind of an ok thing at least for training. Do it right and I’m fine. Do it badly and she lets me know right away.

[chrislandy]

Out of the mouth of babes "That was horrible" - my son after skiing behind a new SN the first time.

 

from a drivers (my) perspective, I preferred the new SN over the early 200's and probably still over the current 200 - but it did feel like navigating the starship enterprise with the i-drive thing, all the buttons and I found the touch screen to be pretty complicated - I'm sure it's fine once you get used to it but if felt like I needed to get a PhD to operate it! Lovely boat though

[Bdecker]

I train behind one regularly and really like it, especially from 32 and shorter. @jercrane - the 200 6L we have at the pond now has 50# in the nose and skis really nice. He runs it way low on fuel too!

[Broussard]

Public Service Announcement: The Ski Nautique and the Nautique 200 (or Ski Nautique 200) are different boats.

[ScottScott]

I think the intent of this thread was referring to the "Ski Nautique" but the title just specifies "Nautique," and nothing was stated in opening comment.... So we are getting comments on both models.

[DavidN]

@Broussard

 

 

[Jody_Seal]

Nautique wants $350 for a stupid piece of stainless steel. So I of course am a cheap skier so I fabbed a non activation plate to go over the blast slot on my 196. Its been a gods send for the crew that ski behind this boat as they are not suprised when they get to a tournament at 22 and 28 off!!

 

[lpskier]

@jercrane What version ZO do you have? If not the most up to date, take to your dealer and get it flashed. You’ll likely discover a more user friendly skiing experience.

[jercrane]

@lpskier I'm on Rev R, might upgrade to Rev S in the off season ... not sure how ZO would effect the wake shape and composition though. Again in case something got lost to subtly ... I love my boat and how it skis.

 

Edit: I just checked my head unit and I'm already on Rev S. I upgraded July 2019 but can't keep track of what the latest letter is.

[Zman]

@lpskier I thought the Rev S upgrade only impacted the plus settings. Not true?

[lpskier]

@Zman I don’t know what they did. I do know that Nate Smith and other skiers were working on the parameters of the program in a Nautique to get better performance. I watched them doing it and it was very interesting. I also know that any setting other than A1 would stand me up approaching the Nautique 6.0 wakes, making the wakes feel “big.” I know that I no longer have that sense behind any Nautique and can ski my normal C2 (although B2 feels better for me behind the 6.2). Since the hull and motor seem to be the same and my skill has declined if anything, I conclude that the ZO performance has improved.

 

I’d also be a bit surprised if the promo material said “improved plus settings and the Nautique no longer sucks.”

[LeonL]

Some say that the pull feels better at all settings, regardless of +. Recent upgrade of my 196 to ECI puck and RevS is not noticeable to me, but that's because of my skill level, or lack thereof.

[Zman]

@lpskier Thanks. So, maybe the tweaking of ZO across the board of settings was exclusively for the newer Nautique after all the complaints when the redesign first came out?

[MISkier]

The Rev S upgrade was supposed to take advantage of the capabilities of the new single puck. I believe it was increased sampling rates that would allow the engine to have more data to adjust more quickly, which supposedly made the adjustments less harsh.

 

And, yes, the plus setting was changed in Rev S also.

[Zman]

@MISkier Thanks. That's the first I heard that Rev S was to take advantage of the capabilities of the single puck. I have single puck with Rev R - so, maybe I should consider the upgrade. From doc starting, or hanging out at the starting dock, I have yet to hear one skier use the plus setting. And, during TWBS webacasts, I never see it being used. Evidently, not the big thing some thought it might be way back when?

[MISkier]

I have had two skiers request the plus setting from me in tournaments. One just this Tuesday.

 

I believe Rev R was created before the advent of the single puck and did not have anything specific for the capabilities of the new puck. Rev S was created after that and, in fact, requires single puck only.

[Sethro]

Good grief, I like my now 24 model year old 32off wake and antiquated technology even better. Manufacturers have made the boats bigger and more friendly inside, but it just doesn’t get any better behind the boat than this in my opinion. I almost upgraded to a 2012 TXi last summer, but my rationale was it doesn’t get any better behind the boat than I’ve already got with my diamond hulled 98 Echelon.

 

[Roger]

I have a 2016 Pro Star which still has dual pucks and therefore cannot use Rev-S (so I'm on Rev-R). Personally, I can't tell the difference between my boat and any Pro Star after mine with single puck which is why I haven't invested in upgrading to the single puck system.

 

As for the Plus setting, if they had implemented the setting the way we asked them to, it would be way more popular in my opinion. What was asked for was what happens with the Rev-R setup when you just switch to trick mode and ski, that's not what we got...