Dane Mechler 43off

[APB]

Such great skiing yesterday! To put that down cold was unreal…. Can’t wait to see it happen again.

 

I don’t believe that score counts towards the rankings list. Or does it?

 

Is he the 3rd person to put down a 43 score with sure path? Impressive.

 

Hopefully Saturday is insane.

[Jody_Seal]

In a run off no it does not.

[klindy]

Run off scores only apply to break a tie. No “official” score is recorded. That said, it doesn’t make it any less real! Ir was hugely impressive and completely legit!!

[Lars]

Here is his 41 followed by his 43, starts at 10:16:14

 

 

 

[dthate]

@lars thanks for posting video, that was fantastic skiing, congrats to Dane.

[DangerBoy]

To my untrained eye at least he looked like he was in complete control all the way through that 41' off. He did it so well and without scrambling anywhere it surprises me that it was the first time he'd done it. To me at least, he looked like a guy who does it all the time on that run. Way to go!! B)

[LeonL]

As stated, the only unfortunate thing is that after running such a great score, it ain't in the books!

[ScottScott]

He got a perfect gate, nice tight line out of 1 ball. From that point he had it run. Incredible skiing, especially in the situation. 1st 41 off run (obviously PB) in a runoff to get into the finals at worlds. A great moment overall.

[Mastercrafter]

He made that 41 look easy, in a good position the whole time. Incredible skiing.

[ski6jones]

That start!

[UCFskier]

Go Dane!!!!

[ForrestGump]

Dane is just a really cool dude to hang out with.

[6balls]

1,3,5 were just sick at 41. Amazing. Really nice guy, too.

[lpskier]

I think that if you gave Dane the choice of running 41 in an L tournament so that the score “counts,” or running it in a runoff to make the finals at Worlds, he’d take finals at Worlds. So don’t feel too bad for him. And recall that he won the preliminary round at the last Worlds.

 

Dane will, in my opinion, run 41 again. And again. And again. Etc.

[aupatking]

The reason T-Gas’ full -41 pass doesn’t put him on the list of guys that has run -41 is that it was a runoff. They don’t do boat path review, among other things. Since Sure-Path is now the standard, and is automatic, should this view be changed? It’s obviously a record tournament.

[Bill22]

@aupatking I am with you, Dane smoked 41 at Worlds, w/ legit driving, on a legit course, on film with the whole ski community watching. He’s in the 41off club even though his score is not recorded in the score book.

[ForrestGump]

I'm with you guys. That should now be counted. In essence, that was another round.

[klindy]

@aupatking semantics maybe and not to split hairs but the runoff passes are judged just the same as if they are in the tournament - including video reviews, boat path monitoring, timing, etc. I don’t know all the details of the T-Gas scenario but for Dane the pass was a legit as if it was in the tournament. HOWEVER, while it did resolve the tie, runoff’s are not eligible to be records. In other words if he ran 4@43 it wouldn’t have been reviewed for a record. Whether it counts on a “list of all skiers who ran 41 list”, is not up to IWWF or AWSA. It’s clearly a tournament quality performance (e.g.- not a practice score). The score IS in the scorebook just noted as a runoff score not one from a regular round.

 

What I’m saying is he clearly is on my list of who’s run 41! Awesome skiing!

[ForrestGump]

What I meant is those runoff scores should be scored in regards to world rankings. They are judged the same. Driven the same. The same technical rules apply. That's a legit score. In fact, that's under as much or more pressure than a final round score.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

I disagree that runoff scores should “count towards rankings”. It is the same as if you fall on your hardest pass then get another chance a few minutes later. Kinda like practice or a mulligan in a novice tournament.

 

First time consecutive performance off the dock is what does and should “count”.

 

Still awesome skiing by Dane!

[Horton]

@ForrestGump I have to agree with Butterfield. Run off scores are not the same as normal tournament scores.

[6balls]

Not the same, potentially harder. Do points scored in overtime count in most sports? To look at football does a receivers catch yardage only get recorded during regulation? A QB's stats? What if it goes two overtime periods with much more scoring. How about basketball, baseball...any other sport. Isn't the run-off similar to "overtime"?

[Skoot1123]

Another counterpoint would be this: they had to start at 39’off - not the usual start of 32’off. If it should count towards an official score can (and maybe should?) be debated for the future.

 

As a “spectator” and fan of the sport it was just incredible to watch these four guys give it their all and see who came out on top.

 

Better competition and awesome skiing. That is what this past year has really been all about.

[klindy]

So what if the runoff skier for 2nd/3rd has a score higher than the winner? Should that skier also get MORE pro points than the winner for that tournament even tho the finished in a lower place?

[aupatking]

Runoffs are for placement, not score. I get that. I don’t 100% agree with @Bruce_Butterfield but I do agree mostly. It’s not a mulligan, but if is basically a round no one else gets. The “score” doesn’t count, but the pass couldn’t be much more official.

Anyway, that was the highest level skiing for a Worlds, that I have seen. I’m amazed, and couldn’t be happier for Dane

[slow]

Did he score 120 - No

Did he run 41 off - yes

He should be in the 41 off club

[RGilmore]

IMO, the single biggest hurdle to running the next line length is knowing for an absolute fact that you CAN - especially under tournament pressure. We haven't seen Mechler's last -41'.

[lpskier]

An interesting question (and I don’t know the answer) is whether the tournament is sanctioned as a two round event. That’s what it is, a two round event. If that’s the case, the runoff is not a sanctioned round, and therefore the score can’t count even if you wanted it to.

[A_B]

Maybe there should be an asterisk in the rule book that states:

 

*when starting at 10.75 meters in runoff and first pass is completed, any score thereafter COUNTS because it is freaking awesome skiing!

 

No, I agree, consecutive score off dock is the best way to go.

 

:smiley:

[klindy]

@lpskier points out the important technical issue.

 

A run off is only meant to break a tie. It’s not meant to do anything else. In fact, let’s assume Dane went last, he would have never even got a shot at 43 since something deep into 41 would have been enough to break the tie. He could have run 41 but the return pass would have been straight back to the dock.

 

So for this discussion (“which skiers have run 41?”) you can obviously add his name to the list. But what is his “final” score? Just 6@41?

[Roger]

@aupatking - "The reason T-Gas’ full -41 pass doesn’t put him on the list of guys that has run -41 is that it was a runoff. They don’t do boat path review, among other things."

 

Boat path was not measured on a number of the skiers on the 41 off list as no record was set... We have no way of knowing if previous skiers on the list had legit boat paths or not.

[jjackkrash]

Q: "Hey, have you ever run -41 in a tourney?"

A: Yup.

 

I think that would be an honest and correct answer in this circumstance. "Nope" would be a false answer. Even if they did not score 120 buoys in a tournament.

 

T-Gas and and Mechler should both be on the list of skiers who have "run -41 in a tourney." They are both on my list, anyway.

 

Edit: I did not see Slow's post above before I posted but I obviously agree with it.

[Wish]

It’s sad his 41 does not go in the books. I get the reasons. But, as mentioned here, in no way shape or form can you take away the legitimacy of that 41. All known variables were accounted for that may put it into question. It was lagit IMHO. And gives is sub 6’ folks hope.

[skierjp]

I’m pretty sure there would have been a boat path review at Worlds and the Malibu Open since we are operating under Sure Path. Everything has to be legit it just doesn’t qualify for a record.

[Wish]

So in a run off, seems like rules that make passes equal across all skiers in the run off is watered down past that of a non run off pass?? And that’s ok? That seems wrong. What am I missing?

[lpskier]

@Wish Video of all passes -38 and shorter are required for all IWSF tournaments, run offs or otherwise and must be submitted for post tournament review. Sure Path is required for all titled events. See Rule 8.15.

 

Also, Rule 14.08 provides that the tournament is two rounds: a preliminary and a final. A run off would be an impermissible third round were it to be scored and go “in the books.”

[klindy]

@Wish as @lpskier said everything is viewed and reviewed just like it would be in a tournament. It IS “in the books”. What it is not is it is not a regular round of a tournament. In this case only the prelim and final rounds are included as “eligible” rounds for the world ranking list. The score is legit. The path was fine. Run off scores are ONLY used to break a tie. They are not eligible for anything else including a world record.

 

Speaking of records, @skierjp Dane’s score is NOT a record. It is a PB most certainly but not a record. So I’m not sure what you mean by your last sentence above.

[Andre]

So many rules for such a simple sport...

[skierjp]

@klindy That’s what I said. It is not a record! But all our resources that would justify a record is still used and verified in a run off it just doesn’t count as a record. I believe Roger said that boat path would not be reviewed in a runoff which is wrong.

[MDB1056]

I doubt there’s anyone in this forum that doesn’t credit Dane with running a legit 41, in the most controlled event of the year. It was simply the next time that he (Dane) was required to ski in that tournament. It wasn’t a mulligan or second chance, as again it was simply the next time he was required to ski. So as already noted- did it happen - YES. “Counting” or not in standings is a rule technicality, as again it does not in any way make it any less real . Yes it happened and he’s in the club. Discussion about rules changes???? Good luck……. Congrats to Dane. We’re looking for more to come.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Ok let’s back up a little. First, absolutely stout skiing by Dane.

 

However a runoff is akin to skiing a tournament (or practice), falling on any given pass, then a few minutes later you get another chance and ski beyond any previous PB. Is that that the same as running it off the dock?

 

Does the rest of the field get a second chance too?

[APB]

He’s def in the club. Him and Detrick have the most legit 43 scores of all time. Zero off combined with surepath is rock solid. Champions and respectable athletes our sport can be proud of. ?

[Intheday]

To play devils advocate isn't the runoff just an extension of the 1st round and therefore counts as a world record?

 

You could argue runoffs are more akin to an equipment failure where you get time (3 minutes) to fix the problem then can ski the round not everyone get this advantage/disadvantage but your scores still counts, or re-ride for hitting a duck.

[andjules]

So we know the rules, and that run-offs don't count towards official scores.

We also know there's an informal thing called the 41 off club.

 

I find myself amused at the idea of a bunch of dudes on the internet (myself included) debating the entry requirements for the 41 off club.

 

There are 12 guys who can decide if TGas and Mechler are in the 41 off club.

We aren't them.

 

Can you imagine yourself being at a lake with Mechler and TGas and throwing shade on their 41s, to their face? I know I wouldn't.

[Nater]

He ran 41off at the Worlds! This shouldn’t be a debate. He did it! Call it what you want…..”He’s in the club”

[Drago]

Nobody said he didn't run 41, and just an FYI, the world record is 2 1/2 @ 43

[Skoot1123]

@Drago - great point. And what would have happened if Dane went to 3@43? Would that “count”?

[skierjp]

@Skoot1123 NO, I’m assuming you’re being sarcastic and you actually know the answer.

[Skoot1123]

@skierjp - yes. But posing the hypothetical.

 

Maybe a step back to ask some questions. Would the skiers even attempt it? Would the skier “hold back” in this scenario? What do the skier’s think of this rule? Do the skiers think it should count? Why was this rule (“runoff scores don’t “count”) written in the first place? (Is it because they don’t have to go up the standard rope lengths?) Is there any incentive to change it so these scores do count? I don’t know the answers - but am curious to know how the competitor skiers feel.

[lpskier]

I think there is a huge difference between the entry qualifications for the 41 Club and whether you can find the score in the score book. Dude ran 41 in the World Championships. He’s in the club and probably already knows the secret handshake.