Advice for group boat ownership

[roda]

A group of us are contemplating purchasing a boat together.  We all live on the same lake so that makes logistics fairly easy.  Looking for advice on contracts or by-laws that have worked well for others.  Assuming we will setup an LLC.  

Thanks in advance and if there are old posts on the topic I would appreciate the link (tried searching but came up with nothing).

[RichardDoane]

we had a group boat at Broho a few years ago, it was 4 of us in the beginning with a thoughtful owner's agreement, and also had a shared boat lift agreement.  The years went by, boats changed, and the group changed, but because we had an in/out agreements the transitions worked out well.  It eventually became just a pair of owners on that boat, and the group of skiers just started paying a user fee for another club boat, owned by one of the other owners.  Once again, we had an agreement in writing about policies, fees, etc. and everything went smoothly for a number of years.  Eventually life gets in the way of water skiing, and the club boat owner no longer has ties to the lake, so that's why the boat needs a new home.  Hence the listing on SIA for the 2015 Carbon Pro with 1284 hours.

https://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?endless=summer&topic=Search&category=Boat_3Event&postid=66826

If your group is seriously interested in this boat, you should buy it, and we'll deliver it, and furnish copies of all the agreements you'll need.

send me a PM, or call/text my cell number in the ad.  I can furnish quite a number of Ballers who have skied behind it, and will attest to it's magnificence.

[lakeaustinskier]

I would keep the group small (2-3 max) and pretend like everyone is married to everyone else.  For example, use your nice words, be considerate, don't be a jerk etc.  Written words/contracts are great but at the end of the day you don't want to rely on them.  In a disagreement with small groups of friends/skiers you need to fall back on personal relationships to resolve issues.

I would also make sure that everyone in the group has the same mindset about how nice you'all want to keep the boat cosmetically and how the boat is maintained.   Example - someone who never wipes down their boat would never be in my group. 

And make sure insurance is in everyone's name and clearly define who drives the boat.  

I hope this helps.  

 

 

  

[BGrow76]

A little off topic but how nice would it be if there was a program in the flat screen display of all new ski boats where each user could enter their own code and have the boat keep track of hours for each owner. With a shared boat the hardest thing is keeping track of how many hours each owner uses, it sure seems like a simple program in the flat screen display could easily be implemented. 

[rico]

@BGrow76 agreed. A bit of a pain but a log book recording hours works. It could also be on a shared doc.

It is important to establish a very clear set of rules and have each member sign.

if any issues or concerns, talk to each other. 

[RichardDoane]

for the Broho club, we used a simple log book, tracking sets.  each member was allotted so many per season at a certain fixed cost.  boat always had the fuel tank at 1/2 level.  everyone supplied their own fuel.   maintenance costs were on the owner, simple to just wipe down the boat when finished.  damage was on the individual, luckily the only issue was a prop ding or two which happens.  insurance was through DeVito at Alcott Insurance in San Diego.  they do a lot of lakes, special events, and are very knowledgeable about marine coverages needed.  it's  nice to say how important proper communication is necessary,, but a signed agreement with specific rules/policies/requirements is a must have.  always have an exit plan because things will eventually end and if there are procedures in place then you're just following the agreement and no one has to be the bad guy

[Bdecker]

We’ve had a group ownership arrangement for 10 years or more. The key to success for us has been to keep it small. Just a couple of partners, using an LLC and splitting costs equally.  In the early days, we had a member who wanted to leave the partnership, we bought him out and never replaced.  Ironically we also share a Cpro which makes it much easier to keep the group small than $100k+ asset.  Only advice is to treat each other like family (that you like), expect that you’ll never get a dime of your buy-in back, and don’t do it with anyone that can’t/won’t kick in immediately for a big repair.  In my opinion, it’s far more important to partner with a group that will write a check when the boat is down or prop is dinged than someone who will wipe every bead of water off the gel coat.    We manage gas informally and really never think about tracking engine hours out of the context of managing oil changes.  
 

The insurance landscape has changed, and we did pay more for insurance in 23 as the LLC is deemed corporate ownership.  

[owennibley]

We have a group of 8 people on our club boat. We set up an LLC and have a written agreement with all the formal stuff but we are all considerate and treat each other with respect. 

 

To make it fair we each have an hour meter that keep track of use per owner and then and the end of the year we collect the per hour rate. That hour rate pays for gas, maintenance, storage, etc. It's worked out very well for us so far. 

[Killer]

12 hours ago, owennibley said:

We have a group of 8 people on our club boat. We set up an LLC and have a written agreement with all the formal stuff but we are all considerate and treat each other with respect. 

 

To make it fair we each have an hour meter that keep track of use per owner and then and the end of the year we collect the per hour rate. That hour rate pays for gas, maintenance, storage, etc. It's worked out very well for us so far. 

Wow. Crazy.   Couldn't y'all just keep a notebook in the boat of hours started and ended?   I'm sure there's a level of honesty but if it's a small group like you have, hard to cheat.

[Mateo_Vargas]

13 hours ago, owennibley said:

We have a group of 8 people on our club boat. We set up an LLC and have a written agreement with all the formal stuff but we are all considerate and treat each other with respect. 

 

To make it fair we each have an hour meter that keep track of use per owner and then and the end of the year we collect the per hour rate. That hour rate pays for gas, maintenance, storage, etc. It's worked out very well for us so far. 

What happens when the boat hits 88?

[owennibley]

10 hours ago, Killer said:

Wow. Crazy.   Couldn't y'all just keep a notebook in the boat of hours started and ended?   I'm sure there's a level of honesty but if it's a small group like you have, hard to cheat.

The keys are essentially the same things as a notebook just a lot more convenient. The key box is wired to the emergency lanyard circuit so the boat won't start unless there is a key turned on. Otherwise the boat operates as normal. Very simple and easy way to keep track of hours. i've had a shared boat setup many different ways over the years and this by far is the easiest to manage. Having a notebook and making sure you write down you hours is cumbersome and easily missed. 

9 hours ago, Mateo_Vargas said:

What happens when the boat hits 88?

I'm not sure I follow your question.

Edited August 31, 2023 by owennibley
clarification

[LoopSki]

That’s comparable to sharing a wife or girlfriend to me. No thanks! However both  scenarios definitely keep the cost’s down! Lol

[Mastercrafter]

57 minutes ago, owennibley said:

 

I'm not sure I follow your question.

 I'm thinking the 88 is a Back to the Future Reference.. 

Dr. Emmett Brown : Now, if my calculations are correct, when this baby hits 88 miles an hour, you're going to see some serious *poop* !

[MISkier]

I think the BTTF 88 reference was related to the similarity in appearance of that bank of hour meters/keys to the flux capacitor in the Delorean.

[Jody_Seal]

 its because the Delorean speedo only went to 85mph.

[owennibley]

Well now I feel foolish... I'm normally good at pop culture references. 🤣

[tlarocque]

Buy a cheaper boat on your own.  Too messy.

[owennibley]

1 hour ago, tlarocque said:

Buy a cheaper boat on your own.  Too messy.

Not for our setup. It works great. 30k for the cheapest zero off boat by yourself or 6500 split 8 ways to get a much better boat. Plus, the club tried the whole "bring your own boat thing" Turns out having more than one boat on a small ski lake doesn't work out that well.

But I'll take your suggestion to heart. 😉

[LeonL]

I could never get everyone to share a boat.  In the early days of our private site all the guys that I skied with had their own boat and still liked to hit public lakes occasionally. So, it remained that way.

[Shell]

I would never share a personal boat,  there is no 2 ppl that would keep a boat the way one (me) would. I also own a 2nd home in a gated waterski community that has 2 lakes and 2 boats, and most of the association skiers just want to hop in and ski, they dont give a f*#% about wiping down the boats or pulling them out of the lake every month to give it a detail……….very sad in my opinion, very frustrating to me personally. 

[dave2ball]

Outside of a club boat where you are forced to partner up there is no way I would go in on a boat with anyone. Too much of a hassle  I thinks you are nuts.  

[roda]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

Our situation is a different than a club site in that we all live on the same lake and all own ski boats already so boat ownership by everyone involved is well understood.  You can't ski by yourself so we are often just offering to use another boat because we used the other guys last time.  

What I didn't included in my original post is that we are considering going together to buy a wake/surf boat (not selling any of the ski boats).  Afternoons on our semi-private lake get busy with jet-skis & other users so good time to have group fun surfing etc.  It's more of a group activity so the keeping track of hours thing becomes interesting especially when kids bring friends etc.  From the above comments it sounds like just a good set of ground rules and notebook to track use as best as possible would work as we are all friends already.  Still use an LLC for insurance and ownership documentation etc.

Not sure where to park the fuel truck.

Thanks

[RichardDoane]

my only concern on the shared boat thing was the use of personal  gas cans to refill the boat.  I'm picky about "can cleanliness" and quality of fuel used.  but the PCM design of a large, easy to replace fuel seperator/filter was changed annually and we never had any problems.