Joel Howley sighting

[Horton]

[jjackkrash]

Not sure if it's MacGyver or MacGruber.  

[BraceMaker]

He lose his dewalt?

[Cooper_Trelawney]

Franken-ski.  You gotta love this guy's independent approach to ski and binding set up.  Variety makes the world go round. 

[rockdog]

.

31 minutes ago, BraceMaker said:

He lose his dewalt?

Enough of the free advertising. They didn’t want to come to the party

[Maxsend]

Will someone please give Joel a ride to Start Haus in Truckee, CA. It's a proper alpine/downhill ski shop specializing in ski racing. One of the owners is a water skier, and I'm sure he'll replace those pipe clamps with alpine ski boot buckles. Despite the sponsorship opportunity, it's 2023 and there's no need for a Dewalt drill to get in and out of a boot. 

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Maxsend

[MrJones]

As a skier with a history of ankle injuries and a PT, I'd put the odds of a life altering injury at 50/50 over time.

[Wish]

The back boot..wow. I believe that’s a carbon fiber speed skate boot. I used to run home built double hard shells and always elevated the back heal like that. I especially like the rust coming off the mounting bolt. 

[jimbrake]

There is a ski-with-Joel day this week at California Ski Ranch/Redwood Shores. I was thinking of showing up with my Rossi 150 race boots and walk onto the dock with them on to see if Joel would notice and give me a thumbs up. 

[UWSkier]

That rear boot is nuts.  On the idea of elevating the heel like that, I always thought that was counter-intuitive for most humans.  If I build up my heel, I end up pushing on the tail of the ski more.  I noticed an improvement in my skiing when I went from a Radar RTP with a big fat footbed to a flat, wafer-thin Wileys rear.

[whitem71]

Jeez it looks like he’s been messing around with left over crap he found in his garage. Maybe we’re the crazy ones and in 10 years this becomes the industry standard. I particularly like the spring on the back of the front boot to give rubber boot-like dampening..

[Wish]

Let’s not forget…World Champion…

[rockdog]

6 minutes ago, Wish said:

Let’s not forget…World Champion…

Spot on @wish

We've been over Joel's bindings on another couple of threads. I especially love how there's plenty on here who ski maybe a couple times a week at 12m and question what he does despite the fact he's a World Champion, skis every single day year round and very soon to run 41. I'm pretty sure he's got it covered..

[Ski2000]

Joel is as good as it gets. Not vary many of us are willing to build what we need to ski. 
He does it and doesn’t give  be a rip what everyone thinks. 
The dude is full in, and I wish I had his commitment. 

[lpskier]

@Ski2000 I largely disagree with you on skiers”not willing to build what they need to win.” Maybe for folks like you and me, but at the top end of the sport, I see it a lot. Hang out with Kris LaPoint for a couple days and the pros that ski with him. Or with Will Asher.  Or CP. Or Adam Caldwell and Cord.  All those guys (and gals and others) are trying new ideas all the time. 

[Ski2000]

@lpskier I guess what I appreciate about Joel is what he is doing is so different than conventional knowledge. I realize many of the top skiers are innovating in their own ways. 

[Drago]

5 hours ago, UWSkier said:

That rear boot is nuts.  On the idea of elevating the heel like that, I always thought that was counter-intuitive for most humans.  If I build up my heel, I end up pushing on the tail of the ski more.  I noticed an improvement in my skiing when I went from a Radar RTP with a big fat footbed to a flat, wafer-thin Wileys rear.

That is counter-intuitive. It's not as high as it appears, probably close to the normal ramp angle of most waterski bindings. The carbon in the heel of the skate boot is maybe 3mm thick and there's a big posting block under the metatarsals.

I used to do stuff like this, working for my brother making custom skate and bike shoes. I tried double skate boot hardshells (scared the livin' heck out of me);  used to add tons of plastic to bindings, etc. T-Whisper solved all binding problems when he created the T-factor (.)

[andjules]

I mentioned this years ago, but the funny thing about Joel is that when he first came on the scene, he was slaloming in a helmet (most over cautious on the tour?) and now wears that boot (most under cautious on the tour?)

[lpskier]

@Ski2000 Jump ski bindings of retired pro jumper. Not all ideas are necessarily good ideas! 

[epnault]

@swc5150 isn't this the Marker MRR from the 90's snow slalom skis?

[MNshortliner]

I believe that is actually a snowboard boot. 

[Jordan]

Remember that Joel shattered his ankle (leg?) with that set-up at the World championships

[BraceMaker]

http://i-carve.com/snowboard_hard_and_soft_boots/mountain_slope_point_951_standard

[Horton]

@Jordan to be fair, he won those world championships

[Mastercrafter]

43 minutes ago, Jordan said:

Remember that Joel shattered his ankle (leg?) with that set-up at the World championships

I was always thinking this was post-injury setup.. but is this what he was using at worlds? 

[Deep11]

Has this always been JH set up? Would be interested to know what he was running on a conventional set up before he started tinkering? Suspect as the athlete he is, that 39 goes down on a conventional set up. This looks like searching for the extra bouy rather than the reason he skis well. Ie no one else should be doing this 🙂

 

[Jordan]

@Deep11 At the World Champioships, he was using a different snow ski boot, but pretty similar to the current setup.

@Horton He did indeed win. He also threw his ski out to make an impossible ball in horrible conditions. There is a pretty decent chance that he would have been injured no matter what binding/boot he was using.

 

[Drago]

1 hour ago, Jordan said:

There is a pretty decent chance that he would have been injured no matter what binding/boot he was using.

This is always true ⬆️

[LeonL]

I can't remember the year (old age does that) but Joel contacted me when I had a set of Fogmans for sale.  They were already gone. 

[Wish]

Wasn’t there, can’t say how it happened but if memory serves it was not his knee or ankle. So to me that style boot pushes all the load up past the delicate ankle bones and into some pretty hefty bones. If both boots were the same, that would mean any twisting would be transferred to the hips as the 2 legs would be as one bolted to the ski…even harder to break something. Now two vastly diff boots with diff load breaking points is not cool in my book. That goes for hard shell front (reflex) and rubber boot in the back (willeys). To me they will eject at diff loads and diff times. Safest in my head is both feet stay in always or both come out close to if not at the same time. I skied double hard shells bolted to ski for decades with gnarly falls and never had a leg injury but did get scorpioned in the back by the ski once..that was bad. No 100% safe system but there are ones better than others IMHO. I don’t see Joel’s as safe but that’s not because he uses a snow ski boot. It’s because he doesn’t use 2. 

[Horton]

2 hours ago, Jordan said:

@Horton He did indeed win. He also threw his ski out to make an impossible ball in horrible conditions. There is a pretty decent chance that he would have been injured no matter what binding/boot he was using.

I disagree. Injury is always a possibility but Joel's boot set up certainly increased his likelihood of getting hurt. 

[LK_skier]

11 hours ago, Jordan said:

Remember that Joel shattered his ankle (leg?) with that set-up at the World championships

The boot broke at that worlds causing the injury.  If the boot didn't break he wouldn't have had the injury - more than likely.

[OldboyII]

Probably old HO EXO with modified front boot ((higher cuff) is an option? Both feet are firmly connected to the ski and still safe enough in nasty fall.

[Horton]

@LK_skier

I am unaware that Joel's boot broke at worlds but he certainly broke a bunch of bones. If he had been in a safe binding we would not be talking about this now.

[BraceMaker]

 

[BraceMaker]

It sort of looks like the fracture was during the front flip when his ski leaves the water for the second time.

[LK_skier]

10 hours ago, Horton said:

@LK_skier

I am unaware that Joel's boot broke at worlds but he certainly broke a bunch of bones. If he had been in a safe binding we would not be talking about this now.

It definitely broke. Joel has said that several times when questioned about his boot set up and why would you still use similar after that worlds injury. He has also never said he’s wearing it for safety and never advocated that it is safe. Its 100% performance based and he fees this set up is best for his style to get the most bouys.  Can’t wait for his podcast on this one day. 

[Horton]

@LK_skier I have talked to Joel about it. His attitude is that it works for him and he won the gold. He knows the risk and accepts it. I think he is a bit crazy but that is not really news. Crossing my fingers that he skis well this weekend.

[wilyle]

@lpskier Why do you say not a good idea that about those jump bindings. You don't know what you're talking about.  1990s snow ski binding technology is still light years ahead of anything produced by any waterski binding to this day. I built those in late 90s and used them successfully until mid 2000s. They never pre-released and the only time I crashed they performed flawlessly except for some cheap broken buckles. Good rubber jump binding don't release and you are going to hurt your leg in a crash. They were rolleblade  boots that I fabricated to mount on snow ski bindings. If I were to get back into jumping (unlikely) there is no doubt that I would use something like this. The science has been done in the snow ski industry. I would think Joel would use something like this for his set up. My boots were much less rigid than snow ski boots and I found a much lower DIN number was necessary. I was jumping mid 160s in men 3 back then with many Reg. and Nat. titles. Not pro tour but working full time at a regular job raising kids etc.  

[Wish]

I have to agree with @wilyle ..snow ski bindings are multi directional in their release and the amount of release tension can be set. I am a huge fan of the MOB binding system for that reason. Smart design. I also know that I'd rather crash on water at 50mph with one ski on then crash down a mountain at 50mph with two. I love innovation.  Without it we would not have half the cool stuff we have now. I'm sure there has been plenty of test dummy's over the decades trying out new stuff at high risk.  I applaud Joel. I hope in some way his thought process and theory works its way into some cool design we all may benefit from. But haters with be haters. 

[wilyle]

Spot on @wish.  I like the MOBs as well for the reasons you stated. I think they are an evolution of the ARC bindings from the mid or early 90s. Back then there were a few skiers using the ARCs for jump but there were a lot of concerns about pre-release. I spent a good bit of time talking with the guy who built the ARCs. I can't remember his name (old age) but he was a great guy from NW. I'm not sure what the improvements that Mike has made since then but I hope he chimes in on this thread. I think the ARC was based on the Besser snow ski binding system from way back in the 70s. They used them a lot on beginner rental skis back then. I grew up snow skiing and water-skiing way back then. I'm very interested in this topic.

[MattP]

@mmosley899 Is the new guy @Deanoski is the OG ARC guy. 

[wilyle]

Yes, Dean. Thanks, MattP

[Drago]

1 hour ago, Wish said:

But haters with be haters.

That's a bit strong, just people with opinions.

I used to bolt 2 hardshells down on plates. Never got hurt. Destroyed my ankle, twice, in rubber bindings.

[Wish]

@Drago same…bolted my hard shells to the ski for decades..no leg or foot injurys. Harsh ..maybe.. but it bugs me that the automatic go to opinion on something different is…well that can’t be safe. I swear every tournament I went to someone would…as politely as they could…tell me I was nuts. 

[lpskier]

@wilyle Well, in point of fact, I ski on Fogman bindings whose release mechanisms are based on the Miller snow ski binding, so I take your point. I guess I was more interested in showing a picture of the bindings than I was cautious in how I described them. They certainly are interesting and unique on jump skis. Hard shells for slalom and trick are common, but those (yours?) are the only ones I’ve ever seen. I apologize for being cavalier with my comments. I never saw them in action, so a negative sounding comment was out of line. 
 

Are you in Lake Charles, LA? 

[wilyle]

@lpskier Yes, I believe you took a picture of my bindings when you bought our ski jump? No offence taken or intended.

[lpskier]

@wilyle You are correct. My daughter and son in law now have the jump at Trophy Lakes. Thanks for all your help with that project! 

[EFW]

An orthopedic surgeons dream come true! You have got to be kidding me. Possibly a Daniel Tosh episode?
What part of the picture am I missing here??  "If this is an emergency hang up the phone and dial 911"