Rodics off course question

[JoshMan]

Hey, all.  I am considering purchasing an off course.  I live on a busy lake and am concerned about effectively being able to see the splash from the paintball.  Hopeful that y'all can weigh in!  Thank you

 

Josh

[MDB1056]

If traffic and conditions are THAT bad you shouldn’t be skiing at all. Too dangerous. Wait for the crazies to leave . 

[JoshMan]

1 minute ago, MDB1056 said:

If traffic and conditions are THAT bad you shouldn’t be skiing at all. Too dangerous. Wait for the crazies to leave . 

Maybe, I should rephrase the question to ask- if it isn't glass, can you still effectively see the splash? 

[UWSkier]

absolutely.  The splash is super obvious.  In two years of OffCourse ownership, I think I've missed seeing a splash once or twice and that was only due to a very low sun angle and blinding glare.  Complete non-issue.

[JoshMan]

4 minutes ago, UWSkier said:

absolutely.  The splash is super obvious.  In two years of OffCourse ownership, I think I've missed seeing a splash once or twice and that was only due to a very low sun angle and blinding glare.  Complete non-issue.

Thank you!!

[swbca]

@Hortontested and reviewed OffCourse. 

https://ballofspray.com/articles.html/offcourse-by-rodics-innovation-review-r3386/

 

 

[Horton]

 

[Horton]

What I did not say in this video was that I shot this on one of the hottest days of the year. I was screwing around all day trying to get this video right and it was well over 110. It as brutal. Anyway Offcourse is very cool

[Jsh809]

I have one for use on lake of the Ozarks before it gets crazy in the mornings. You can see the splash very well. The only issues I have with mine is because of the seawall lined lake. It is very sensitive to not only side to side roll, but bow attitude as well. After my 2nd-3rd pass, a cove can get too choppy and if the bow rises at the right time, you could possibly hit a dock with the marker even if it’s calibrated correctly at 38ft wide.

[swbca]

In Horton's review he pointed out he had to recalibrate while testing OffCourse because he changed drivers.

I know some owners have worked out a way to re-balance the boat when you have different drivers, rather than recalibrating OffCourse multiple times in a morning of skiing.  So the actual calibration is permanent.

We have four 10 pound rubber coated dumbells in the side pockets of the boat.  Because our three usual drivers have 20 pound differences in weight we can shift dumbbells from one side to the other the balance the boat.  With the heaviest driver we have 3 on left and 1 on right.  With the lightest driver 1 on left and 3 on right.  The medium weight driver we have 2 dumbbells on each side.

Moving one 10 pound dumbbell from left to right is a 20 pound shift in weight. With our ProStar 197,  forgetting to move a dumbbell causes the boat to be 20 pounds out of balance and shifts the position of the OffCourse splashes about 4 feet on each side.  This will vary with boats and with boat speed.   If we have a second person in the boat on rare occasions they have to sit in line with the pylon. 

We only have trouble seeing the splashes if there is a lot of wind chop.  I love OffCourse and use it almost every ski session.

 

[coach3]

Question. The Zero ball splash I understand is 188' before 1, which seems like an odd distance, or possibly signifying the pre gate. I wonder if it splashed at where 5 would be on an 8 buoy course, that would indicate the "turn in" at Zero ball. 

How do you know where to turn in with such an early splash for Zero?

 

Also, on boat level, do you have a "level" mounted to OffCourse when moving weights and balancing the boat?

It sounds like a great solution and we are considering, as our sinkable course has been hit by multiple anchors since Covid. 

[Jsh809]

Yeah, we have a level on the unit itself, but it’s rather small and it’s actually behind the CO2 magazine. So it’s kind of unusable after your set up. I prefer a lager level that you can place on the dash of the boat. Also, we don’t have much variation in the ski crew, so we figured out quickly where the 3 50lbs bags needed to be placed in our 92 prostar. We will have a new prostar for next year with MTS. I’m assuming we won’t need as much weight in the boat to help level it.

[Jsh809]

Regarding the zero ball splash. It just took some trial and error to get the turn in timing down. I try not to make it too complicated and use it as a fun trading tool.

[Mastercrafter]

If somebody could mount this to a gyroscope and make it auto-level....

[2Valve]

One of our skiers installed this on his boat. 

None of us could see the splashes, but to be fair, we didn't do a precise calibration.

[JoshMan]

Thank you all.  I went ahead and purchased off course. 

 

 

[Jsh809]

1 hour ago, JoshMan said:

Thank you all.  I went ahead and purchased off course. 

 

 

I don’t think you’ll regret it. I love ours.

[UWSkier]

3 hours ago, Mastercrafter said:

If somebody could mount this to a gyroscope and make it auto-level....

yeah, already been researching that for a while.  :)

After using it for 2 years though, that juice isn't really worth the squeeze IMO.  It would have to be able to react and settle in quickly if you have a spike on the boat at shortline.

We just use a 50 lb weight.  If you're running late and that next ball splash is way out wide, don't try to round it, just use it to tell you when to turn and go inside of it to try to get back on schedule.

[swbca]

On 10/9/2023 at 7:09 AM, coach3 said:

Also, on boat level, do you have a "level" mounted to OffCourse when moving weights and balancing the boat?

Following another Baller's example . . We have digital levels fastened to both OffCourse guns.  We calibrate both guns with our boat tied to our dock and with no waves on the lake.  With a third digital level on the boat, reading 0.0 degrees and with each level on the guns at 6.8 degrees from level, our guns are calibrated for regulation width.

By chance, if we have our boat balanced to read 0.0 degrees with driver and weights standing still, the boat will still be at 0.0 at 32mph.  When we remove and reattach OffCourse from the boat, we can reset the calibration in minutes with the boat tied to the dock.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OffCourse is calibrated when we have the boat parked on quiet water balanced at 0.0 degrees and have set the guns angles at 6.8 degrees.

This setup requires three of these levels.  We have verified this setup by driving our boat through a cable course setup on our lake occasionally.  

Message me if you want details on fastening these levels to your guns and your boat.  

The 6.8 degree value will not directly transfer to other boats because the height of OffCourse above the lake surface will vary with other boats. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by swbca

[Jsh809]

Man. That is a fantastic solution! I love it and will be getting some of these for next season!

[Windsurfnut]

That looks like a good solution.  Ours has been very difficult to keep consistent distances.  Whether its boat levelling or scrambling and pulling the boat, it seems to always fire a ball or 2 too far in a set.  The narrow SN196 isn't helping, it seems particularly sensitive to weight placement.  

[UWSkier]

2 hours ago, Windsurfnut said:

That looks like a good solution.  Ours has been very difficult to keep consistent distances.  Whether its boat levelling or scrambling and pulling the boat, it seems to always fire a ball or 2 too far in a set.  The narrow SN196 isn't helping, it seems particularly sensitive to weight placement.  

Short of a gyro, there's no real solution to the "rocking the boat" problem other than to be a smoother, better skier. 🤪

[BraceMaker]

Its where you wonder does it make more sense to have the thing sit level constantly with some sort of gimbal mount or to correct prior to the shot.

I would think due to the way this is mounted in the sightline that you really don't want it to be bulky so you would probably want to use some sort of linear actuator to position the shot as opposed to having a large mechanism but then again if you redesign it to work off a bimini or a tower you'd reduce some of the constraints.  Also from my life I think I'd rather have a unit mounted into a Bimini than on my window no offense to the design but I really don't think having that on my boat is going to fly when we pass the sheriff but that could easily be tucked up into the bimini frame.

[UWSkier]

1 hour ago, BraceMaker said:

Its where you wonder does it make more sense to have the thing sit level constantly with some sort of gimbal mount or to correct prior to the shot.

I would think due to the way this is mounted in the sightline that you really don't want it to be bulky so you would probably want to use some sort of linear actuator to position the shot as opposed to having a large mechanism but then again if you redesign it to work off a bimini or a tower you'd reduce some of the constraints.  Also from my life I think I'd rather have a unit mounted into a Bimini than on my window no offense to the design but I really don't think having that on my boat is going to fly when we pass the sheriff but that could easily be tucked up into the bimini frame.

On my boat the windshield is far more stout and sturdy than the bimini frame.  The off-course is a well-built (not lightweight) piece of kit.  You could do something with linear actuators and Arduino, but it'd need to be able to react quickly and probably unnecessarily complex.  I thought of a gimbal mount also but you'd need to account for wind resistance at 34MPH and effects on position, crosswinds, etc.

I do like the idea of a tower mount, but you'd need to relocate the controls closer.  A tower mount would have the system mounted higher, meaning a leaned-over shot wouldn't go out nearly as wide since it's shooting more "downward" than "outward."

[KRoundy]

@swbca What boat? That angle sounds really similar to what we measured for my SN 200. I only purchased one of those digital angle gauges, but putting three on there seems like a great solution to me! Well done. 👍🏻 

[swbca]

8 hours ago, KRoundy said:

@swbca What boat? That angle sounds really similar to what we measured for my SN 200. I only purchased one of those digital angle gauges, but putting three on there seems like a great solution to me! Well done. 👍🏻 

A 2004 Prostar 197.  We also have a 24" long carpenter level mounted on top of the dashboard just behind the windshield.  As you have seen the digital levels don't work well with the vibration of a boat at speed.   The 24" level works pretty well to see if the boat is level while underway.   The 24" level also provides a flat surface to fasten the third digital level which we use to get the boat leveled with the boat standing still with the current driver.   The final verification of this calibration method is to drive the boat through an actual course at speed.   Another skier has a course on our lake about 10 days each summer.      

[swbca]

On 10/10/2023 at 11:39 AM, UWSkier said:

Short of a gyro, there's no real solution to the "rocking the boat" problem other than to be a smoother, better skier. 🤪

OffCourse is a remarkably well built product. If there could be a next-generation that could self level independently of the boat it would be a break-through that could greatly expand its market.  I have a great appreciation of what they have done but don't know if their return on effort can encourage them to push forward given the niche market.  I am rooting for them.  Anyone have any insight about their future development prospects ?

[03RLXi]

Add on self leveling and incorporate splash sensing feedback so that it self learns the required width adjustment should the boat is tilted over when its about to fire the next shot.  

[r_maniak]

I've been dormant from this forum for some time, so I apologize for the untimely response, but I feel I should jump in real quick. 

I'm perhaps one of the most "seasoned" OffCourse users, having fired through approximately 17,000 markers so far (just 2 users - my ski partner and I).  The small Klein level was something I came up with and shared on a different thread here years ago.  There was one mention of the occasional errant fire (too wide), I believe from @Windsurfnut.  Someone else on the forum hit it on the head when he suggested that's due to being late on the turn.  While driving for a skier using OffCourse, pay particular attention to what the boat is doing while the skier is loading the rope coming out of the turn.  There is tremendous torsional pull on the boat at that point, causing it to tilt toward the skier.  If the skier is late, OffCourse is firing the next marker when the boat is tilted, causing the next marker to shoot wide.  If you get late down course, you are no longer in sync with the device.  When I'm skiing good, OffCourse fires somewhere in the early stages of my pre-turn when there is no load on the rope.

Overall, I cannot say enough about this product and the company.  It's changed our skiing... oh, and back to the OP - yes - you can see the markers no problem.  Glad to hear you bought one and either have already figured that out, or will find out soon.

PM me for any other tips or tricks.

[swbca]

On 11/14/2023 at 10:45 AM, r_maniak said:

I'm perhaps one of the most "seasoned" OffCourse users, having fired through approximately 17,000 markers so far (just 2 users - my ski partner and I).   When I'm skiing good, OffCourse fires somewhere in the early stages of my pre-turn when there is no load on the rope.

As Horton mentioned in his review, on very short Line Lengths, "the markers come up fast".  This happens because the skier advances on the boat with short roap, so the guns shoot the marker very close in front of the skier.  The shorter the rope, the closer the splash occurs relative to the position of the skier, providing no visual guide to setup the turn.  I find the the marks appear early enough to ski around them at 22 off, but my useful practice is at 32 and 35off.  If I am skiing at the correct pace and width for 35off, I am completing my turns before the splashes happen a few feet ahead of me.

In spite of that deficiency, OffCourse is still useful for short line practice because it lets you know if you are late, early, wide or narrow.  Its a great product for improving and measuring your performance when a conventional course is not available.  Like @r_maniak , I have gone through a few thousand balls in the last two years.

QUESTION for r_maniak . . At what rope lengths do the splash marks occur early enough for you to consistently ski around them ?   

Edited November 16, 2023 by swbca

[r_maniak]

@swbca - I start my sets at 32 and generally finish at 38 if I'm skiing well and conditions are good and the splash marks never seem to sneak up on me.  Just like skiing a course, anticipation comes into play.  I had not thought much about exactly WHERE I am in the turn when the ball fires, but we took some video in September, and I looked closely at it and paused it right at the moment the ball fires (35off).

[KRoundy]

Man, this really motivates me to get my Off Course out more often. It was quite an investment and I need to just start using it.

[coach3]

@r_maniak I am considering one, as anchors have been hitting our sinkable course. 

1. My wife/driver is concerned about keeping the boat straight enough not to throw a wide splash. Are gates required to drive straight or can she pick a spot on far shore to aim to?

2. I am training 32/35 off at 32 mph. Is it really viable here?

3. The turn in splash seems to be too early, 188' vs 134' where 5 ball would be on an 8 buoy course, or where actual "0" ball would be. How do you handle that?

4. The "level" ideas on this thread seem to fix that problem?

Has anyone heard if there is an update next year. The price is elevating significantly!

 

 

[swbca]

Not exactly breaking news but I recently asked the OffCourse guys if they were considering an upgrade that would add width stability by "dynamically leveling the guns independently of the boat".

This was the reply: it shows they are still developing the product.

"We have a couple of things that we are looking for when creating the next version, I will have your thoughts in mind regarding dynamically leveling the guns independently of the boat" 

Robert Ungurjanovic   

 

@coach3

Regarding your questions

1.  Driving straight doesn't require gates.   Targeting something on the shore ahead of you works. 

 

2. Training for 32/35 off.  Skiing only with OffCourse without frequent use of a conventional course, will not fully develop your skills for skiing in a real course.  It will help you develop the general performance level required for skiing in a course at different rope lenths, but skiing around the splash is much more forgiving than skiing around a physical marker >> you don't care if you run over a splash but you never want to hit a ball. That changes how you ski.  

 

3. The position of ball zero . . .  they drew a straight line from ball one back through the center of the starting gate and put marker zero where that line intersects with a line through balls 2,4,6.  They give you extra space because there is no way to know precisely where you should make your first cut towards the wake.

 

4. We only recalibrate OffCourse when we have a real course to drive through.  To keep the guns accurate we distribute six 10 pound rubber coated dumbells in the left and right side pockets to get the boat level with every crew combination.  In our case we have 3 drivers and no observers, so we know where the six dumbells go for each driver, moving weights on the fly when changing drivers between sets.  We never take OffCourse out of the boat. It is locked to the windshield with fully imbedded security Allen bolts and removable Locktite.  If we took it out of the boat we would have to recalibrate OffCourse every day instead of simple leveling the boat.  The digital levels we have attached to each of the guns read 6.8 degrees for regulation width with the boat level.

** On our boat the vibration and shake of the windshield when running over choppy water slowly unwinds the screws used to adjust the angle of the guns. This causes the splashes to become narrow.  I have thought about adding a Nut to the adjusting bolts to lock the position, but so far have been using a small strip of duct tape to secure the position of the adjusting bolts. 

 

The Digital Levels we have installed helps us level the boat to match our current crew every time there is a change in crew.  There is no way to keep the boat level once a short-line skier starts skiing because the skier rocks the boat.  1 degree of lateral roll changes the width of the splash by about 6 feet (depending on how high your OffCourse guns are above the lake surface at speed).  With OffCourse, I am used to skiing inside some markers and too wide on some markers because they are always changing width once you start skiing. 

For me the value of OffCourse is to maintain my ability to ski the required width and a sufficiently aggressive pace needed for a real course at 35off@32.  To run an actual course at 35 off takes a couple of days of adjustment because real balls require you have a precise preturn and timing for the turn to keep your ski a few inches outside of each ball.   When the splash varies in position by a few feet with each turn you can't train for that precision. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by swbca