BallOfSpray Video Coaching preview

[Horton]

This is a preview of the new coaching platform. This system allows coaches to use the system however they want. Any coaches and elite skiers in the sport will be welcome to participate. BallOfSpray is simply the platform. Let me know if you would be willing to submit a test lesson.

 

[Andre]

Did i miss how much it cost ?  Good work John!

 

[chaloux]

Awesome! Building the platform is the hardest part. As long as it's clean, simple, and straightforward to post media and comments/criticism I don't see how it can fail. The hardest part will be finding a balance between cost/fees/payouts for coaches. 

[Horton]

@Andre

I'm so glad you asked. Each coach is going to have the freedom to set their own price. Again BallOfSpray is simply the platform or the infrastructure. 

Every coach is going to have a different different approach. The coach that is going to type you out three sentences is probably going to charge you a different fee than the coach that's going to download your video to their computer, and mark it up and re-upload it.

I think in the very beginning it's going to be a little fluid. To work the bugs out I'm going to personally coach as many sets as I can at a discount. 

[BrennanKMN]

This is amazing! Thank you for the time and effort required to put this system together. I am excited to use it after the struggles I had with GiveGo. 

I like that the system is fluid and allows each coach to use their own style. However, that opens up the door for potential confusion. For example: is the price for one video review? It looks like the system allows for multiple comments/videos to be ask/answered under one 'coaching thread or session'.

Is there a mechanism to advertise what each coach will provide before you submit/pay? That allows us skiers to seek out the best coach for a particular question or issue.

[Horton]

@BrennanKMN

Clearly there is going to have to be a FAQ page as well as a page listing the coaches and their individual comments.

The lessons are designed to be one student video and a coach response plus maybe some clarification replies. 

[Horton]

I would like to start some test lessons. I have set myself up as a coach. The cost is $10 per test lesson. To be clear, for the test lessons I will put in as much effort as if it was a full-price coaching session. 

 

Below is my first draft of the instructions. 

BallOfSpray Coaching Instructions 

1)      Set your BallOfSpray account notifications to get an email when your coach posts a response. See the Video at the bottom of this post. You can and should view this in full screen.

2)      For best results submit a hand-held Horizontal cell phone video. Wide-angle GoPro, vertical cell phone, shaky tracker video or any low-quality video will prevent your coach from accurately assessing your skiing.  Video shot from shore is also useless. Good quality video from a cell phone shot from the boat is what is required.

3)      The system will accept the following video formats mp4, webm, ogg, mov, and avi formats. In some cases, coaches and students may have to use alternate browsers or download the files to view them. Unfortunately, Google, Apple, and Microsoft files are not always seamlessly compatible.  This should not prevent anyone from using BallOfSpray Coaching. If you have concerns or issues with files, please contact me directly. Horton@BallOfSpray.com

 

[Horton]

Your lessons are all accessible from the Coaching link as well as the Orders link.

See below is a summary of test transactions from the  Orders page showing the testing I have done with this account. The point is here is a clear record of all transactions. 

 

[Horton]

Completed the first real test of the system this morning. I am not going to lie, it works great.

[Horton]

So @ColeGiacopuzzi is on board as the first Pro Coach and I plan on personally doing a few more discounted lessons to work out the bugs.

[Adam Caldwell]

How do I submit a test lesson!

[Horton]

@Adam Caldwell 

A) Cord says you are uncoachable

B) the instructions are in the video at the top of this thread 

C) I am working on something that may be useful to ski companies.

[MitchellM]

Great concept!  I selfishly hope this does not cut down on people posting videos here on BOS for critique.  As a novice, I've learned quite a bit from those threads.

[Adam Caldwell]

@AdamCord is not wrong.

AI_coaching on deck.

[Cam]

Looks like I was 1st to take the video coaching from @Horton, the platform was really easy to use and it wasn't long before I got a 10 minute video back from him, it was straight to the point and I have a couple of things to go away and work on, I am sure I will use it again later in the season, it's always good to see new innovations like this on BOS 👍 

[Horton]

Thanks @Cam 

I will do a handful more sessions at the discount price of $10 as I look for problems with the system. So far I can not find any 🙂

 

[03RLXi]

5 hours ago, MitchellM said:

Great concept!  I selfishly hope this does not cut down on people posting videos here on BOS for critique.  As a novice, I've learned quite a bit from those threads.

Agree! I've learnt a lot from seeing collective critiques and the discussions that follow afterwards on BOS. It's highly valuable. Get much better feedback via BOS than when ask on facebook pages.  Certainly hope financial drivers don't mean that non professional video discussion will become banned on BOS 🤞

As I see it this new system is just giving people who want professional coaching good access to it online now that givego is gone. Hopefully it proves to be trustworthy. Users pay and get to hear and see the coaching. I've no issues with their online coaching session being private. It's not like we get to witness on lake in person coaching. Overall it's a good thing as I never get chance to access the international pro coaches otherwise.   

 

[Horton]

6 hours ago, MitchellM said:

I selfishly hope this does not cut down on people posting videos here on BOS for critique. 

&

43 minutes ago, 03RLXi said:

Certainly hope financial drivers don't mean that non professional video discussion will become banned on BOS

I do not see why the Coaching product would negatively impact the posting of videos and conversations about skiing. The general conversation here in the forum is the core of this website. I would not be doing this if I thought it would damage the forum conversations. The more conversations the better. The more videos the better. 

Please think of the Coaching product as an expansion of what is already here. Currently, pro coaches rarely if ever come in and give coaching in the forum because it is their job. I am trying to provide another venue for them to provide you guys with good information. 

 

[03RLXi]

Awesome! @Horton I thought that was your intent but do know that some website owners would use a change like this to steer all content through a system where they can 'clip the ticket' and earn a few $. I'm pleased you're not one of them as skiing as a sport already isn't as popular as we'd like it to be.  

[101driver]

Great concept, I really hope you can make this fly @Horton. I am so pleased your initial trials have gone well. I wish you every success. I will be using as soon as I can get on the water and actually ski and get some video. Great work, great idea, love it

[Jibbo]

Great job!

Givego left a bit of a hole, and although it had its problems it did provide invaluable coaching from many top skiers and coaches to people who just dont have access to top level coaching.

Hope it goes well and ballers support it.

[KRoundy]

Wow! I need to start recording some spring sessions.

[Horton]

with some luck, I think my developer just fixed the last bug. 

For the moment the name of the system is "BallOfSpray Video Coaching" BOSVC does not exactly roll off the tongue. I am open to suggestions. I am also looking for a logo. If someone is a wizard with graphics I will trade some ski lessons for art. 

Nothing is set in stone but I do have a meeting with a pretty big name next week so this could get more real pretty fast.

If one is a wizard with the backend of PayPal I might need that help also.

[jerseysfinest]

9 minutes ago, Horton said:

"BallOfSpray Video Coaching" BOSVC does not exactly roll off the tongue. I am open to suggestions

SlalomSync, CourseCoach, GlideGuide, WakeWizard, SlalomSphere,SlalomSensei

[mike_mapple]

BOS coaching (pretty simple) can be pronounced boss

[Horton]

I briefly considered Baller Ski Video Coaching and then I figured out it would get shortened to BSVC & anything that starts with BS is going to be a bad look 🙂

[Mateo_Vargas]

Might be questioned on the credit card statement but how about Swinger Sessions?

[Horton]

wife says ot should be Y.S.A.W.S.

 

[skibrain]

Baller Video Coaching System 

@Horton check your email. 

[KRoundy]

Coaching Panda

Lesson Panda

Buoy Chasing

Buoy Coaching

More Coaching Less Rope

 

[Mateo_Vargas]

Lurker Pro 2.0

[DvarianDan Johnson]

My sense is Ballers would be interested to know specifics of what caused Give-Go to fail and how this initiative is structured to prevent the same.   

[Horton]

@DvarianDan Johnson

I can only speculate on what went wrong at GiveGo. I think Willie ( the GiveGo guy) was over-ambitious and is a "sell it now and apologize later sort of character".  He is a very charismatic entrepreneur. Frankly, I think he dug himself a hole and then kept digging. From what I hear he is personally good guy but based on our business interactions I am sure I will never be on his Christmas card list. 

With Baller Video Coaching if your coach does not follow through in a timely manner they will get a personal call from me and you will get your money back ASAP. That is one big difference.

GiveGo also seems to have had a poor system for choosing coaches. Picking and choosing coaches is an admin problem that I will have to think about. What I can say is I saw some examples of GiveGo lessons that were embarrassingly bad. Those bad lessons would be unacceptable in my system. I personally care about the quality of every lesson because BallOfSpray is my brand. 

[mike_mapple]

10 minutes ago, Horton said:

@DvarianDan Johnson

I can only speculate on what went wrong at GiveGo. I think Willie ( the GiveGo guy) was over-ambitious and is a "sell it now and apologize later sort of character".  He is a very charismatic entrepreneur. Frankly, I think he dug himself a hole and then kept digging. From what I hear he is personally good guy but based on our business interactions I am sure I will never be on his Christmas card list. 

With Baller Video Coaching if your coach does not follow through in a timely manner they will get a personal call from me and you will get your money back ASAP. That is one big difference.

GiveGo also let nearly any coach sign up. Picking and choosing coaches is an admin problem that I will have to think about. What I can say is I saw some examples of GiveGo lessons that were embarrassingly bad. Those bad lessons would be unacceptable in my system. I personally care about the quality of every lesson because BallOfSpray is my brand. 

that was going to be my only real question to you was who decides and how do they, on who can be a coach type deal.

[Horton]

@mike_mapple To start with I am personally reaching out to skiers / coaches that I know and trust. I need to move slow to avoid a GiveGo type disaster. With some luck I will have one big name on the system in the next week or two. Stay tuned for that announcement. Beyond that, if skiers want a specific coach then I want that coach on the platform. My bottom line is I want happy Ballers.

Also @ColeGiacopuzzi may not be a super famous name but he knows what he is talking about PLUS you can trust him. 

For a few less $ than famous name coaches,  l will do lessons until the system gets momentum. My coaching is always about core fundamentals. Skiers between 28 off and 38 off are where I have the most to say.  

 

[Horton]

Looks like "Baller Video Coaching System" is the official name. Mrs. BallOfSpray and I went out for sushi last night and brainstormed name options. She wanted to name it  one of these

A) You Suck At Water Skiing - YSAWS

B) Kaiju Video ( translates to Monster Video)

C) Distance Video Coaching - DVC

I confess I did consider YSAWS. I think it is funny but I am pretty sure not everyone would think it is funny.

@BOS_Shirts shirts that say YSAWS would be super funny to me but I think we might want to skip this idea. 🙂

 

[Mateo_Vargas]

Ok my last entry, End of the Rainbow Pro

[Brokenstack]

I would buy a YSAWS shirt…..shoot I would buy a  ISAWS shirt.

[BOS_Shirts]

Coach shirts. Student shirts.  IDK, maybe the Mrs. is onto something...

[Horton]

okay, I'm going to order two

[braindamage]

I gave it a try, and after a couple of “operator error” issues on my part it worked great!

I got solid coaching and now I just need to get on the water and do it!

[vtmecheng]

Big issues I had with Givego.

1) Some of the coaches listed wouldn’t respond. I personally reached out to a couple of them and they told me that they had requested to be taken off the platform and it didn’t or they said that they were taking a break due to other life things.

2)  Video responses were limited to 2 minutes. I had a couple responses get cut off. That’s a stupid limitation.

3) Customer service sucked when there was a problem.

All of these seem like easy fixes:

Stupid easy that you will be all over: Take coaches off when requested and give people money back when service isn’t provided.

Also easy: 2 minute response limit is often too short. I get a limit so that the site doesn’t go way beyond a storage limit but it needs to be reasonable. Allow coaches to click an option to temporarily suspend taking new videos. Thinking when a pro has a couple tournaments in a row and needs to focus on themselves or just wants a vacation.

I hope this works out in the long run. Givego was great for connecting with different coaches to find a style that works for each individual. Thank you for picking up what they dropped.

[Horton]

@vtmecheng

All of those GiveGo problems noted and addressed. I am sure at some point some student is going to be unhappy with BVCS. It is inevitable that eventually something will go wrong.

In terms of customer service, the obvious difference between GiveGo and BVCS is that you guys can message me anytime. I'm going to take care of any issues in the most timely fashion possible and if there really is a problem you are going to get your money back promptly.

 

---

 

you mentioned the GiveGo lessons were capped at 2 minutes. The four introductory lessons I did this week all stretched out to approximately 10 minutes. The truth is that I probably monologued a bit more than I should have and they didn't need to be 10 minutes. the point is there is no time limit. I would think that coaches would be wise to stick with one specific subject per lesson. 

This does bring me to another point. Each coach is going to have the freedom to respond however they wish. What I've been doing is  voiceover on top of of the students  lesson at quarter speed with some pause and then jumping back and forth in the video. GiveGo sort of boxed the coaches into using a cell phone interface and doing it in a limited time. BVCS has no such restriction.

[6balls]

A button for "are you willing to have your coaching session shared on BOS?"  Just thinking out loud such that if the coaching session were posted--it would satisfy those who felt they got value from the videos/coaching being posted on the forum.  Basically an opportunity to learn from s'one else's coaching session.  Having said that I wouldn't want that feature to diminish the value the coaches are imparting by giving away some knowledge after the fact for free.  Just thinking out loud. 

 

Otherwise great job here @Horton  

[Horton]

@6balls

One of the design choices that I specifically made was to keep all the lessons private. there's a number of reasons for this. two of the many reasons are listed below.

The first reason is from the coach's perspective, they don't want thier information given out for free and they don't want to have to debate their coaching with the open forum. You will notice very rarely do elite skiers give advice in the public form. I can see a counter argument that this is short-sighted. it is what it is.

The other reason is that many skiers very much do not want to be judged in the public forum. they don't want tons of comments on their skiing except for from the coach that they're asking for advice from. 

 

so lessons will 100% private until somebody convinces me otherwise. Good luck with that.

---

let me be perfectly clear. The existence of professional coaching inside of this website does not preclude any of you guys from publicly posting videos of yourselves or commenting on the videos of other members. I don't really expect the professional service to diminish the amount of publicly posted videos.

[vtmecheng]

1 hour ago, Horton said:

@vtmecheng

All of those GiveGo problems noted and addressed. I am sure at some point some student is going to be unhappy with BVCS. It is inevitable that eventually something will go wrong.

In terms of customer service, the obvious difference between GiveGo and BVCS is that you guys can message me anytime. I'm going to take care of any issues in the most timely fashion possible and if there really is a problem you are going to get your money back promptly.

 

---

 

you mentioned the GiveGo lessons were capped at 2 minutes. The four introductory lessons I did this week all stretched out to approximately 10 minutes. The truth is that I probably monologued a bit more than I should have and they didn't need to be 10 minutes. the point is there is no time limit. I would think that coaches would be wise to stick with one specific subject per lesson. 

This does bring me to another point. Each coach is going to have the freedom to respond however they wish. What I've been doing is  voiceover on top of of the students  lesson at quarter speed with some pause and then jumping back and forth in the video. GiveGo sort of boxed the coaches into using a cell phone interface and doing it in a limited time. BVCS has no such restriction.

I figured you knew and covered most or all of those issues. Never hurts to mention in case one wasn’t known or thought of.

[Horton]

17 hours ago, BOS_Shirts said:

I think we are going to have to make these shirts. @BOS_Shirts are you on board?

I plan to wear the YSAWS shirts and buy all my friends ISAWS shirts. 😁

[Mastercrafter]

2 minutes ago, Horton said:

I think we are going to have to make these shirts. @BOS_Shirts are you on board?

I plan to wear the YSAWS shirts and buy all my friends ISAWS shirts. 😁

I used to do a lot of competitive shooting and firearms training, and one of my favorite course names was “you suck, it’s not the gun”

 

I have come to also find that I suck, it’s not the ski.  

[BOS_Shirts]

@Horton let’s make it happen!

[scoke]

You still doing the $10 thing? I’ll give it a try!!!  
 

im a Luddite so I might have to pony express you a check.