Sethski

I agree with Ed. I will also that each step builds off the next, so for example, the sequence must be: 1-drive the inside half of your body slightly forward which will keep you traveling out as well as wash the ski out from under you in order to get edge pressure without moving to the inside 2-make sure that the inside hip is the main element of this countering move such that the inside hip is pointed in the direction you wish to travel as you exit the turn. 3-to some extent allow the turn to begin on its own based on how well you accomplished #1 and #2, but also insure as Ed said that your COM (guided by that inside hip) moves in the direction you wish to go (in other words forward and across course). That hip sliding will limit your shoulders ability to drop. 4-patiently ride the edge of the ski back to the handle so that you are already accelerating as your outside hand finds the handle. My two cents...or really my comments added to Ed Johnson's accurate 2 cents.

My 2 cents...I don't think Marcus meant this with any disdain for the Big Dawg format and I too understand that pros want to get paid. I don't know if I can speak for the rest of the Big Dawg skiers out there when I say this, but I don't think any of us are trying to steal that glory or cash. We aren't getting paid in Australia and were given this opportunity by Correct Craft and the Moomba Masters organizers and we are thankful for that. They see value in the Big Dawg's existence in the sport. Most Big Dawg skiers are guys who just truly love the sport and also have a desire to compete among their peers. In my first season (last year) I experienced large doses of humility (which I fully expected) but even more than that, a greater appreciation for the skiers who truly love this sport and support it. I will be the first to admit that the competition at the pro level is ridiculously tough. Obviously pros truly are the best of the best. No one wants to take that away including the Big Dawgs. However, on another note even as a pro for years I consistently heard fellow pro skiers complain about what they got paid and the state of professional waterskiing. Being a business owner in the industry as well, I see both sides, but the fact is pro skiers are not alone in wishing there was more cash available. Every other person who busts their ass to earn a living and make things work in this industry shares in the burden of low margins and tough times. We do this for the passion not for the cash. Bitching that pros need to be paid more or that another group of men's skiers at a pro level is causing a problem is a bit short-sighted in my mind (and again, I am not saying that Marcus was saying this). The industry is not a grossly lucrative one as it is a niche sport. We are all doing our part (hopefully) to help grow the sport to change this fact. We have a pro team as well and we appreciate what they do, but much like any other player in the industry, we are each just a small part of th ebig picture. By the way, Marcus, why aren't you at Moomba? I realize I may make enemies with this post and those enemies may be the same skiers that I competed against and with for a long time. None of this is meant with disrespect to those athletes who can ski at a level that exceeds everyone else on the planet, but just know, we are all on board to help it grow and don't think you are the only people who have made sacrifices to make the sport grow and continue. Dana Reed doesn't get paid but he shows up for us all and asks nothing in return... Probably too much of a rant, but...

I believe it is about to start today if it hasn't already. It is 11:45am and Men's Slalom is about to start. Not there right now, and unfortunately I have connection at the site, so I can't keep you updated, but webcast should roll. After the pros there is Women's jump, some wake boarding, a break and then the Big Dawg Round 2.

Yeah, concept is good, but I agree with Horton. Plus, there is already the debate over having a 35 mph division...at some point we will make it a bit too cloudy I guess.

I get it ZO settings "in Theory", but in application, I have done blind testing both as the skier and the driver and find that it is very relative to the various ways I may ski a particular pass. I use B3, but I have had some great results at C3. I do like the 3's though as they leave the boat with the option to use whatever it needs to counter my activity. Since ZO I have tried to get rid of any idea in my head that I can BEAT the boat and therefore I have tried to USE the power the boat provides which may explain why I like the 3 settings. However, I feel there should be no settings at all. One way for everyone. The rules are based around the boat holding perfect speed as it passes through the course. Having different settings really doesn't align with that idea. Wow, most ambiguous posting ever...sorry.

I agree with RAL, the picture says it all. Again, it can be done several ways, but there is definitely value in "facing the high-side of the ski" (the edge that is out of the water. JimBrake is right about your mass being balanced in my opinion. Dang, I try not to over-commit to one method, but there is definite value in the position relative to the ski, but also in the ability to transition out onto the turning edge from an "open" position. If you also face the tip of the ski, then your back shoulder (furthest from the boat) can easily get pulled up during the transition.

I like @6balls point about the real idea of "hold" and I agree personally (and I am also in the do as I say not as I do group he mentioned). A semi-static position (especially with the upper body) doesn't mean you are stagnant. IF you can maintain the things @6balls mentioned, you can move through your transition much more fluidly and therefore maintain line tension and control on your way out to the buoy. In general, I think power is necessary, but just always realize that for any power that you exert on the boat, it counters your action...especially with the solid pull of ZO. So, don't take more than you can handle. Also, relative to the comment Horton made, you may feel like you don't get as much angle, but don't confuse ski angle with travel angle. The ski may feel like you are going more down-course when in fact the overall path is virtually the same or better. We often turn at skis to 90 degrees knowing forgetting that we aren't really capable of crossing the course at 90 degrees. Additionally, a lot of the angle gained is given away as soon as you transition because you aren't able to maintain...a whole additional thread needs to be started on that one. By the way, Ham, I like to test all of these ideas on Guntersville lake on the weekend in the main part of the river on a windy day with jet skiers, tubers, and barges all around...damn, I miss the good ole days of just spending the weekend on the public lake. Gonna hit you up to meet in Guntersville sometime this year.

Jody's comment regarding keep your eyes level with the horizon is, in my humble opinion, more important than "where" you look...although I also understand the shut your eyes and hold on for dear life mentality as well. Most comments regarding where to look are relative to the boat, the course, etc. One thing that I believe is important is to think about where you look (and consequently where your body faces) relative to the ski. Where your body faces (and this will cross over into that other thread regarding "opening to the boat", "hips facing the direction of the ski" etc.) has everything to do with how you pressurize the ski. Now, as a disclaimer, I still believe there is more than one way to do all of the things we are trying to accomplish in the course, but with respect to trying to find the most efficient mechanics on a water ski, I feel pretty strongly about what I am about to say: -When you are not loading the rope (in the approach to the turn and through the turn) I feel it is important to face the high side of the ski. The high side of the ski is the side that is out of the water. By doing so, your hips maintain pressure on the "down" edge of the ski which gives the ski direct information and a solid stable ride. As soon as you turn and face the "down" edge of the ski or the "pressurized" edge of the ski, your hips starting moving out to the high side of the ski giving the ski conflicting information. This takes pressure off of the turning edge and can also cause a tail blowout through the turn. -Once you are connected to the rope, I believe the same holds true, but that you don't want to take the concept to such an extreme that you put yourself in a completely unnatural stance. This is where people lose faith in the idea of "staying open" behind the boat. The key is to do it to a manageable degree rather than over-exxagerating the idea of being open. -So with these two basic ideas (providing you believe they make sense) then the idea of where to look is a dynamic idea relative to the course and the boat. For example, we can say look at the boat, but if you are looking at the boat in the turn, your body is over-rotated and therefore your hips are "lost" and creating pressure on the wrong side of the ski. Coming into the turn, the idea would be to have your body facing the outside of the course (or as stated the "high-side" of the ski. IF you do this and maintain it, by the time you finish the turn you will be facing the next buoy or down course, and by the time you reach the wakes you will be facing the boat. -My last point is this...and I believe it is the most important part of all of this. WHERE YOU LOOK IS ONLY A TRICK USED TO GET YOUR BODY TO FACE A PARTICULAR DIRECTION. With practice, you can separate the two ideas. How many times have you been told not to look at the gates in order to keep your body open. Well, I call BS on that one as I am pretty sure that without the gates, the rest of the course counts for a score of 0!. A better way to say it might be to look at the gates out of the corner of your eye or look over your right shoulder as you glide for the gates, but looking completely away really doesn't make a ton of sense...at least to me. That's my two cents...sorry for any typos.

I am incapable of skiing like Andy at this point. I also believe learning to ski exactly like he skis would be difficult for most mortals. I like the idea of techniques that require less body movement so as to keep us normal folks from screwing something up. I appreciate great technique, but I also like the idea of guys who just "Get it done". I saw a lot of guys who I actually had never met during my first season skiing the Big Dawg, who are now skiers I love to watch because they know how to run buoys...no matter what it takes. Pretty cool aspect of slalom skiing or any sport for that matter!

I love this thread because it really proves the idea that there are many ways to do it as several of you stated. I like the comment about the ski being "dumb" as well. The goal is for you to do several things in the power phase in my opinion: 1-effect pressure on the cutting edge of the ski in a balanced fashion such that the ski "stores" energy as you approach the wakes. 2-keep your mass moving so that you limit "wasted" load on the rope. 3-do these things from a position that allows you to maintain your direction and position as the ski moves through the centerline of the wakes in order to advance outbound without having your upper body immediately release to the inside of the optimum handle path (this is one of the many reasons that most people try to limit loading their down shoulder to the point that it is not maintainable through the transition). This is done in many different ways by many different skiers. If you are less efficient in this phase you are forced to become more efficient in other phases in order to make up the difference. The physical movements in water skiing should not be based on plain and simple rules. Different skiers have different bodies, different levels of experience, different mind-sets, and different aptitudes and ineptitudes. For this reason we all may execute things in a little different manner. The key is to find the most efficient way for each particular skier (for you) to accomplish the task of running the course. Jodi says it differently than Chet, and Chet says it differently than the next guy, but they all have proven results to support their efficacy as coaches as MattP pointed out. I personally think that each skier has to be assessed in order to decide what methods can work best for them. Just my personal philosophy. Oh, and have fun doing it too...

I would say from a technical perspective, Terry Winter for sure. Can't deny Nate Smith. Parrish makes it looks pretty easy, but how about the way Andy just gets it done...especially at the peak of his career...and by the way, you guys don't need to use Andy's last name...he is Andy.

IXL, I agree that the P6 is probably the best option at that speed. The only thing that stands out to me above the P6 would be the Theory. The Senate is too narrow for your current speed. The problem is that you don't want to have to buy a ski for every single speed you ski (although those of us who own a pro shop would love it if it worked that way...ha ha). Since you already own a P6, I say stick with it. As for being a slalom skier, you became one the minute you felt that first bit of cross-course acceleration. You became a junkie the minute you starting obsessing about it as we are all guilty of. We're always glad to have another skier out there. Keep the ski fire stoked! Seth Stisher SethStisher.com for training... H2OProShop.com for all of your gear needs.

Thanks Brent.

Yeah, this is consistent with a lot of things I believe some great skiers work on, but another way to approach it. Sounds good. I never try it this way, but the goal is the same (which seems to be what 6balls and ShaneH seemed to experience). The place where most of us mortals lose much of the value of the work we have done in the course (in other words where we lose most of the energy we create) is through the transition where we give up our connection to the rope, our power, our position, and our outbound direction. Some of this was perhaps taught to those of us who have been skiing for 30 plus years. In order to combat this and keep people focused on moving out and maintaining their position, I did away with using the phrase edge change all together. At the point where we talk about the edge change (which I personally refer to as the "transition") the real goal is to swing off of the centerline with energy and actually USE the energy you created from the turn to the wakes. If you give up the pressure on the rope you lose the ale on the rope and are no longer able to maintain an efficient path into the subsequent turn...much like you guys mentioned. Nice idea Horton. Seth Stisher SethStisher.com for training. H2OProShop.com for all of your gear needs.

My advice would be based on the potential growth curve. The answer is a little tougher if you think you may be skiing 32 and 34 very soon. At 30, in general the wider ski will give you the ability to maintain a smoothe carving turn whereas a narrower ski at slower speeds might have a tendency to bite therefore bleeding off some of the energy and momentum you carry into the turn. On the other hand, as you speed up, the wider ski might end up being too much surface area for you to manage through the turns. If the goal is truly to run the course at 30mph, then I would say Senate shape is best. The one idea I might suggest is to get a Senate (not the C) and learn the course on it. If you speed up rather quickly after settling into course skiing, then you will not have spent so much on the initial investment. Then you could still upgrade to the Strada or maybe even find a demo or cosmetic blem and get a deal. Does this help or further advance the ambiguity of the situation? Seth Stisher SethStisher.com for training. H2OProShop.com for your gear needs.

My buddy JAson Hux is a PT in Savannah and he has done a couple of sets for me and has helped several skiers with this same thing. Go to a specialist and take your best pair of running/training shoes as well as your ski boots and explain to them what they are for. IT makes a big difference in your connection to the ski for sure. Seth Stisher H2OProShop.com and SethStisher.com

I just competed in the best waterski tournament I have skied in for a long time. I skied in two sites in Chile, Chicureo and Chacabuco (One site on Saturday and one on Sunday). Sure, I have skied in competitions with more fans, more crowd, etc., but never with any better people than the very welcoming Chileans as well as the skiers from other countries. There were participants from Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, Miami-FL, Canada, and even Greece. The best part of it all was that even with this many different countries represented, I felt like I walked into someone's family ski day. Even better still, my daughter (who barely speaks spanish at all...and my Spanish is pretty bad) and I were received like family. This is what waterskiing is all about. Everyone speaks of growing the sport, and I agree it is great to promote the sport to people who have yet to experience it, but the fact is there is a great waterski family already out there. Embrace it first, then grow the sport! Thanks to all of the people responsible for the events in Chicureo and Chacabuco for accepting me and making a great weekend for everyone! -Seth Stisher www.sethstisher.com

So from my standpoint, we could probably use all of the math terminology you guys just mentioned (which by the way, made me feel like I didn't pay enough attention in Trig and Calculus) to explain all of the nitty, gritty details. I wish I understood all of what I read, and I know there is a lot of great info in this thread. I would like to add my humble, and hopefully simple opinion. One of the main differences is that when the line gets shorter you must travel up to a higher point on the boat to achieve the same width. In other words (as someone might have touched on earlier in the thread) you must travel further around the arc created by swinging back and forth behind the boat. The center of the arc is, of course, the pylon. This does NOT mean we travel more distance (the radius of the arc is actually shorter therefore so is the circumference of what would be the circle that represents the arc), but it does mean we move up to a point where the boat isn't actually pulling us (when we are almost directly beside the boat which happens as the rope gets shorter). This means that our speed, direction, and timing become increasingly more critical as we shorten the line. IF you arrive at the buoy with too much down course speed, you must in essence wait for the boat to "get out of your way" before you head back to the other side. This scenario creates a big slack hit as you decelerate and wait for the boat to pull you. This is where the physics of the swing meets up with the timing, and create harsh demands on the athletic skier. In other words, rhythm and timing are very critical and when they aren't correct we must be "more perfect" mechanically on the ski in addition to being more fit. This is the quick and simple version of my thoughts on the subject. I try to keep the thought this simple so that I can keep my own goals centered around the things that have the most impact. For me it's timing/rhythm. I can be as mechanically sound as possible (for me), but if I pull too long I generate tons of extra down-course speed and therefore over shoot what should be the natural apex of the turn. This creates slack which causes my skinny frame to crumble and lose position and therefore power and speed coming out of the turn. At this point every turn has slightly diminishing returns. Just my thoughts... Seth Stisher H2OProShop.com and SethStisher.com

I have now used it for 2 sets and I think it is better than my previous. I never rode the 2011 shell just because I was still using my old shell that matched up with my Reflex 404 Release Unit. Using the white cuff boot is the same as my original, but the tab is removed from inside the heel cuff. This gave me a little more flex back and forth which I was a bit leary of, but it seemed to smoothe out the carve through the finish of the turns. I put the flexion strap on its longest setting so it wasn't a factor while I skied. Nice to see Reflex putting a foot forward. Makes the product easier to ride and therefore easier to sell. Seth Stisher H2OProShop.com SethStisher.com

I have now used it for 2 sets and I think it is better than my previous. I never rode the 2011 shell just because I was still using my old shell that matched up with my Reflex 404 Release Unit. Using the white cuff boot is the same as my original, but the tab is removed from inside the heel cuff. This gave me a little more flex back and forth which I was a bit leary of, but it seemed to smoothe out the carve through the finish of the turns. I put the flexion strap on its longest setting so it wasn't a factor while I skied. Nice to see Reflex putting a foot forward. Makes the product easier to ride and therefore easier to sell. Seth Stisher H2OProShop.com SethStisher.com

Those numbers are for a 66, and they aren't necessarily the best numbers out there, but wanted to make the point that it was waaayyyy too much work with a long blade. For a 67, you may want a touch more length and depth. My boots were/are at stock and wing is at 8 degrees, but maybe 7 today since our water is about 180 degrees... Oh, and as for hair, keep it...you might be running out of it soon... Hope things are good. Seth

By the way, you looked pretty stacked up in photo #2...nice...but the hair...damn that hair...

Just a little additional feedback settings-wise Horton. I have been riding a Fusion Prototype for about 2 months (and I'm now on a new one) and I would beware going with a longer fin setting. The ski needs to release out and the turn kind of takes care of itself. I tried some super long, deep, and back settings and didn't realize (until I undid them and went back to something more traditional) how hard I was working to create speed and width. I went back to 6.880, 2.505, and .725 from the tail and the ski came back to life. Feels much better. Had some other guys trying it at our place and the results were similar. Hope all is well guys. Seth Stisher H2OProShop.com and H2OTrainingCenter.com

Brooks is a great coach. He almost always coaches at my place when I am on long trips and I get great feedback. He rocks and has a good rapport with people. HE will be at our H2O Training Center starting July 18th through the Wednesday before the Malibu Open. Come ski with him. Seth Stisher H2OTrainingCenter.com and H2OProShop.com

Hey guys. The T-Factors are finally available. Haven't skier in them, but will tomorrow. For a hard shell guy, I'll have to say they are about as comfortable of a rubber boot as I have tried on. Hopefully skiing in them will yield similar great results.  We just got our first shipment in and have been shipping a lot of them And yes, Than, and Ed, the Leverage boots are still available as well.  Hope everyone is making it through the winter ok! Spring will be here soon. Seth  Seth Stisher H2OProShop.com and The H2OTraining Center Here's a link to the boots: http://www.h2oproshop.com/d3-t-factor-front-boot.html