Boat choice

[stone88]

I'm looking at buying a boat and I'm looking at 2008 Nautique 196 or a Malibu Response Lxi. I am edging towards the Nautique but my sister wants the Malibu.

Taking PP & ZO out of the equation, which of these 2 boats would you rather slalom behind?

 

[ScarletArrow]

If your only activity is slalom skiing then the choice is pretty obvious - 196.

[Old MS Accout]

Let her drive both and she will buy the CC. Skiing is the same. 

[eleeski]

ZO is a huge factor - don't ignore it. If one boat has ZO and the other does not, choose the ZO boat.

If both boats have ZO, go with the CC if you only slalom and go with the Malibu if you are at all serious about tricks.

If neither boat has ZO, look for another boat. MC?

Eric

[Horton]

I say you forget brand, drive both, and ski behind both.

It is like choosing one of these. You can not go wrong

http://www.strangecelebrities.com/images/content/13331.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lkb]

Stone88, if you decide on the 08 196, I have one that I will sell you

[Old MS Accout]

LKB has a real nice 196. If you can get him to drive it is real nice.

[Old MS Accout]

No, I am going to DFW to ski Deans 3 round on Sat. Its an anual fall tourney.   

[lkb]

If you could get one of the above to drive it would be even nicer. MS oughta buy it since he ran some tourney 38s Behind it

[ScarletArrow]

why buy an '08 196, when you can buy my '09!?

[stone88]

Cheers guys, I think I will go with a 196. Have decided not to buy till next year so probably will get an 09 with ZO.

 

[Ed_Obermeier]

You never detailed your intended purposes for the boat.  IF you're a serious tournament skier and you're strictly wanting a single purpose slalom course boat I suppose the Nautique gets the nod, it's undoubedly the best single purpose slalom course boat on the market.  But that is about all it's good for.  If you want killer slalom wakes only a tick removed from the Nautique, PLUS a much roomier boat that will double as a family boat you can actually spend some comfortable lounge time in, trick behind, pull footers with etc and still hammer it in the course, without a doubt the LXI is the way to go.  Parrish did set a world record behind one you know...

Ed 

[MAD11]

Hey MS,

I just brought home C. Scott's Malibu after being a long time Nautique owner and this is the best driving boat I have been in period. I know it's got couple specials only he get's but man it's awesome. Even the wife is right down the center. The other Nautique loyalist that drove it this weekend were shocked and maybe some converted. By the way there a bargain compared to the 200. I hear they aren't even getting up to speed in time at the short sites with the 5.7. No wonder they pulled the BDF with 6.0 boats (close to a 7K upgrade). Ask the boys this weekend in Big D about the slow ramp up. May see you this weekend.

 

 

[stone88]

Well I will do some tricking behind it but i'm not really interested, I only do it when I'm too tired to slalom. Is the 196 really that bad for tricking? I have watched some pretty impressive back to back tumbles behind a 196.

 

[Old MS Accout]

MAD,

I agree that CS boat is awesome driving. I think its the rudder. Why dont they do that to all of them. If CS would still have the boat, our club would have been in the market as soon as our 06 sells. Both the 08 and 09 that have that rudder handle real well. The only thing my wife doesnt like about the LXI is that she needs a booster seat to get a good visual and when you drop a skier at the end of the course, they carry more momentem and float longer to a stop at the end. They dont come to a stop as quick without using the reverse all the time. On a private lake like ours (2200X300) the LXI, 200 or the 197 are just to big. Any rain down there yet? 

    

   

[tru-jack]

I got my lxi from the promo team director at malibu and he told me that he gets all the promo team boats dialed in with very very minor adjustment to the 3 fins and he personally hits the rudder with a grinder to make it drive just right.  (even though they have the small adjustable tab to load the rudder, the grinding is a larger surface area as well as I think it's his 'old school way' that he is comfortable doing).  Regardless, the result is a straight as an arrow nice driving boat.  The other thing he changed was he added some spacers (like small hockey pucks) to the seat mounts so it's about 1.5" taller, and makes the seating position much better.  Both nice boats, but our club members agree this is the easiest boat to drive straight.  My boat doesn't have the loose steering feel at all, in fact if you let go of the wheel you're in an instant power turn...  I agree that it coasts further than the MC or 196, so a small lake may prefer the 196. 

[Old MS Accout]

From what I know if you put the malibu V drive wakeboard rudder on the RLXI, it will drive like a CC. I wonder if the new 200 will coast/float like the MC/Malibu after throttle back?

I am not going to spend the 15K upgrade to find out. Right now there are no CC promo boats in ND/SD/MN/IA and I think only 1 over in WI if they sell their 08 and stay in. As soon as we get a buyer for the 06 Response we will be out looking for a 09 Promo from someone. If there are any Promo guys out there, ask your dealer if they will take an 06 and some cash for your boat.    

[Chef23]

I think Ed summarized pretty well.  We ski the course a lot but probably only 50% of my hours are in the course the rest are pulling my kids tricking, wakeboarding and even tubing then the extra space in the boat is key.  If both boats had ZO I would go with the LXI. 

[Old MS Accout]

For me, I want my driver happy. If that means a Geko, I will ski it. As long as I dont have to put her behind the wheel of Skidawgs American Skier.   

[ForrestGump]

That is no lie, MS! We have one at our lake and although that thing has a sweet slalom wake, it'll seperate the girly men drivers from the real drivers very quickly. lol

[MAD11]

MS,

 

No rain here in Austin yet. Even our turtles are pissed off. Totally dry. Two years in a row of great BD tournaments and now were thinking about hosting a mud bog race in our pit.  I just stare out into the mud and fondly recall the memory of Jones missing the gate against Dave Miller and it at least makes me laugh a little. (he doesn't think it was funny) I do have a place to ski now I can bring guest so come on down if you want a ride. Your host this weekend in Dallas doesn't talk too much so it's a good thing Darwin's coming along.

ma

[Old MS Accout]

Ma

After a few barleys, he loosens up. He can sure take down 38.

I hope it rains a bunch for you guys so I can get down and check it out.  The BD finals Jones blow out at 35 off was fun to watch. It nice when we can make fun of someone else besides the ol MS on this board. Missed gates, missed 35 off. I think he needs a new ski.       

[lkb]

MAD11, sorry to jump you'lls thread but do you have a Warp? If so could you tell me what #'s you use? Thanks-lkb

[sixball]

I ski and drive a 03 196 and my 07 Rlxi. I think my Rlxi is a much better driving boat. I love skiing both.

[Tuney]

Why wouldn't the 196 be a good tricking boat? Couldn't you just throw a little ballast in it and get a nice wake? I can see where the open bow of the Lxi would benefit a couple extra people but other than that it isn't much bigger, no?

[ScarletArrow]

Lxi is much bigger and roomier throughout than the 196...it's the biggest of the "big 3".

 

i'm not a trick skier, so i can't comment on the trick wake of the 196...i believe the table has been compromised by the evolution of the TSC hull...eric seems to have experience and strong opinions about it.

 

can't use ballast for trick.

[eleeski]

The problem with the 196 is the trick table. It is so rough that beginners struggle just learning backs and fronts. Advanced skiers suffer with surface toe tricks. It may have the worst table of any boat I've ever skied behind.

The wake on the 196 is great for tricks. No ballast is needed. Really high level skiers will like the Nautique because they have runs filled with wake tricks and the wake is as good as any boat's wake I've skied behind.

There is a huge variation between boats I've spent time skiing with. Camilo's boat and Tom Nathan's local promo boat had an acceptable table. The Morris' boat is a challenge but skiable. The SDSU boat is atrocious. Given that the 196 is now obsolete, it would be reasonable to modify a 196 to give an acceptable table. A bit of bondo on the trailing edge of the boat and a different prop can make a significant difference. Jody Seal may have some tips - but a 196 will never be a Mastercraft for tricks.

If your primary love is slalom, choose the 196. It is the best slalom boat. For me it is worth 1 to 2 buoys.

The Malibu is a nice all around boat. I find it a bit harder to drive as the seat is too low for me. The rope is hard to pick up after a release. Dean's 08 boat (which I have a bit of time driving) doesn't have ZO which makes that boat really hard to drive for tricks. But the wedge is a great toy and really easy to use. From the skier's perspective the Malibu feels very nice for both slalom and tricks.

For the record, I prefer Mastercraft. But John's picture earlier on the thread says it all.

Eric

[scoke]

 

 

January 20th, 2009 at Okeehelee in West Palm Beach: 16 boats lined up on a sunny Saturday afternoon.

 2 Malibus

2 Mastercrafts

12 Nautique 196's....

[Old MS Accout]

73% CC to 27% on the poll.

Minnesota is Malibu country but everyone wants to ski the CC at regionals.  

[MAD11]

Warp Fin Numbers

Here are the Warp numbers I used for the stock carbon fin that comes with the ski. Lenght 6.8135 jaws 6.901 tips, 2.51, .689 dft, Back of front boot from tail 28 7/16, wing D3 size @ 7 degrees.  Boots were Goode powershells with interloc. Had to file the back edge of the fin to get it that far back in the fin box because it's so thick. Couldn't keep it the ski wet until I did that.  Have fun but don't spank her with the handle!

ma

 

[ForrestGump]

Eric, I wonder if the 3 blade acme 470 would help with the trick table on the TSC3 196. I know it softened the slalom wake as compared to the stock acme 4 blade. My perception is that it reduced the turbulence inside the crests.

[Ed_Obermeier]

Scoke wrote "January 20th, 2009 at Okeehelee in West Palm Beach: 16 boats lined up on a sunny Saturday afternoon. 2 Malibus 2 Mastercrafts 12 Nautique 196's...."

Must be a Florida thing, Okeehelee is an abberation to the average skier.  Okee is a super serious skiers slalom specific mecca (try saying that fast 3 times...), you gotta be running 32 as an opener to even be allowed on the lakes :>).  Even then you gotta know someone (been there) to get access.  On smallish, private sites the 196 is king because it's only being used for the one thing it's good for - slalom course skiing.  If you do ANYTHING else with your boat, a one-trick-pony ain't gonna cut it.  I'm taking nothing away from the 196, awsome top notch slalom course boat.  But that's all it's really any good for.

Most of the places I ski around home (KC area & Table Rock Lake Missouri) the VAST majority of boats are Malibu's, with a smattering of MC's both older and newer.  Occasionally you might see one CC.

Ed