Baller Texas6 Posted April 1, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 1, 2012 2003 MC TT197, indeed a throttle cable and not DBW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markchilcutt Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 My 06 LXI is a drive by wire. ill see what happens without doing the cal passes??? I think ill call PP tomorrow and see what they recommend on the cal passes? My boat ran really good times with PP classic 16.93 to16.97 with alot of 16.95 MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil2360 Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 @markchilcutt, Rather than running a No Skier pass to veriy times, you are better off running a pass in Cal Mode. That way you can see the suggested RPM change & decide for yourself if you want to use it or not*& make a note of it for later if things don't seem quite right. We quite often run a pass like this each way if its a bit breezy. Can then look at the 2 suggested figures & pick a mid point if we decide to change the Baselines & just adjust them manually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markchilcutt Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Sounds like a plan ill run 2 passes in cal mode. Thanks, MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller kurt Posted April 2, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 2, 2012 I had decided to wait for a while before I posted how the Z-box was working for me .I have a 2001 malibu lx mechanical trottle . We have probably pulled 100 passes with it now and I think it's as close to ZO as you can get.It took a little bit to get it all dialed in but now it is running actual's almost every time ,I found it was critical to have the right base line & also the right crew weight as well . I was a little hesitant to spring for the Z-box ,I had stargazer and never got that to work right it was always coming in hot or slow then it would make a huge adjustment at 3 ball ,but all that is gone now it is worth the investment IMO. PP is extremely helpful when you call to figure something out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller kurt Posted April 2, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 2, 2012 Scot, I tweaked all of them ,mostly lowered the values of all 3 it still would not settle in with SG, totally different with the ZB. My lake is 2000' so it's not real long but now with the Z-Box it settles in at the 55's , not quite as noticable driving as with ZO but you can feel it ,when the promo guy's put their boat in ZO settles in at the 55's as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller usaski1 Posted April 2, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 2, 2012 Bit the bullet and ordered Z- BOX today... looking forward to good times and no surging after 3 ball... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Laz Posted April 3, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 3, 2012 A few questions before pulling the trigger: 1) We often ski in a portable course. We don't have magnets, but use a little switch on the dash with Stargazer that we press as the boat goes through the gate. Will programming in a course each time we install our portable course take a lot of time? The course goes in on a river, so it is never In the same place twice. 2) Sometimes we have short setup. I have had some issues with SG but haven't tried to tweak it. Is the ZB better or worse for short setup? 3) Does ZB use calibrated RPM baselines like SG? And, does it use the same ones? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east tx skier Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I can answer the last questions. From everything I read, you need to save your baselines before you do the upgrade. Zbox sounds like it is basically an accelerometer placed in between the GPS antenna and the master module. So it is adjusting the GPS input based on movement of the boat based on the skier pull and whatever other forces might be present. Just ordered mine today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Texas6 Posted April 3, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 3, 2012 @laz. To map a course with ZBox, it takes only as long as it takes you to idle from entry gates to exit gates and push the up button and then the down button. no problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller usaski1 Posted April 3, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 3, 2012 The big question is, because ZO doesn't use baselines, why does the z-box need them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Texas6 Posted April 3, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 3, 2012 usaski1, we're applying a band aid to older boats with throttle cables here, I would assume the answer lies within this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markchilcutt Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Talked to PP yesterday he is telling me to first input all baseline data from my previous PP classic. Done. next map my course. then run passes in cal mode with crew weight no skier and see what the system suggests for baseline adjustment if any? Next run a pass in GPS slalom with no skier and zerolbs skier weight and chck all six ball times. If all checks out go skiing!!!!!!!!!!!! I am planning to run it tomorrow after work i will report back with results. MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller usaski1 Posted April 3, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 3, 2012 You shouldn't need skier weight or crew weight, but have heard some put the crew weight at 500 and leave it, regardless of who is in the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil2360 Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 @usaski1 ZO does actually have an internal set of baselines. The just does not see them. They are adjusted dynamically. It's all explained in their patent document. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markchilcutt Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Sweet! way stoked after 2 sets lastnight!!! mapped course took 2 minutes ran one cal pass. system told me to soften baseline by -15 ran another cal pass boat ran dead perfect segments no questions asked!!! I did have a OM skier Tom Henderson with me lastnight and we both thought while in the boat driving a skier that with a C2 setting the boat seem to act a little more extreme than ZO in the newer boats with C2. I did feel myself getting free from the boat like ZO once i settled down relaxed and skied!!! Overall i am very happy and will be trying a C1 Or C3 to see if it feels any diff?? Also the system has plenty of adjustment to change the pull to suit your needs. I have some vid with audio that i will post tonight after work. We really noticed that immediate reaction from ball to ball depending on how much load the skier applied to the line. system works great. now maybe i can start working on not overloading the line so much!!!???? ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east tx skier Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Mine is on the FedEx truck and should be delivered before lunch today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller usaski1 Posted April 4, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 4, 2012 Fed ex screwed up my zip code, and now I have to go 15 miles in the wrong direction through traffic to get it tonight! argh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markchilcutt Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 usaski1 that sucks!! but whatever it takes to get it and get it now if your anything like me!!! What boat you upgrading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east tx skier Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 @usaski1 I just happened to see that an "indirect signature" was required. I wrote a nice permission letter and signed a piece of paper with my tracking number on it. It was waiting at the house for me when I went home for lunch. Installation looks like it might take 10 minutes, including the time it will take to write down my baselines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller usaski1 Posted April 4, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 4, 2012 yeah... I left the note at my door today... but fedex botched my zip, and never even attempted delivery... I prob wont get to ski it good till this weekend... maybe tomorrow... @markchilcutt.. look at my sig... Moomba Outback.. 08, with 63 hours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller usaski1 Posted April 5, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 5, 2012 Wow.. I hate Fedex. FedEx told me the wrong location, massive bad traffic at 4:30 in Austin, TX. spent 2 1/2 hours in trafic to get my z-box tonight. Got to the fed ex place "oh its not here, its over on techni center" All because they got one digit off on my zip code. Finaly got it.. will install tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markchilcutt Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 pay attention to the motor revving not the skier!! Skier had an off day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markchilcutt Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 You can laugh out loud now!! what a hacker. how about that 3 ball wheelie!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east tx skier Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Got mine installed tonight along with a replacement GPS antenna to replace the one that crapped out on me. No troubles, but I forgot to write down my baselines. No worries though. I think only one of them was different from the stock IIRC. New GPS antenna is definitely an improvement. Picked up in the garage; never did that before. Didn't mess with any of the ball settings. Unlike with standard SG, pregate setting is gone. Now you only have 1 ball, 3 ball, and 4 ball to exit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markchilcutt Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 C2 and yes great ski site while the water lasts!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skihart Posted April 5, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 5, 2012 Nice site! ZB does sound like ZO. Hey just out of interest how wide is your site at this time of the year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller colo_skier Posted April 5, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 5, 2012 It looks like both run's are going East to West in the video's. At least that's what it looks like from where I see the buoys on Google Earth at the base of Provo Municipal Airport. The boat certainly sounds like the video's of zero off and the one boat we have at our lake that has ZO. Thanks for posting the video and audio very enlightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east tx skier Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I would be going out of town this weekend. I'd really like to get the boat in the course and get this thing setup (again since I forgot to enter my baselines). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller usaski1 Posted April 8, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 8, 2012 took my first set, and in fact will post some video later.. I have it on B2. I can say its quite a bit different than SG or classic, I would guess pretty close to ZO. A gopro on the dash couldn't really capture the audio nicely. The pull seemed firmer, and I skiied lousy, so yup, I'd say its working fine. What I can say is that the timing is way better. Its always on time now, and that is awesome. Haven't had an out of tollerence pass yet.. My only beef, And I guess it needs some tweeks, is that it take a bit for it to settle in, and is still hunting even after the 55's. After it hits the gates, we are good, but its screwing up my gate and 1 ball often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller usaski1 Posted April 9, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 9, 2012 oof.. tried A2.. dont like it hit me hard off the ball... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mac Posted April 9, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 9, 2012 @usaski1...I assume your 2008 Moomba is DBW? Was this an upgrade from a previous PP/SG version or brand new? Did you accomplish an auto CR/CS and CAL for your baselines or just manually transfer your old data? How were your segment time tolerances? My 2005 MC 197 TT, 5.7L MCX, 1.26:1, with the Z-box, overshoots the baseline when pulling up a skier by 400-500 rpms depending on what skier weight setting (F, L, N, X) is selected. It's annoying since the previous SG 7.062 vers was "perfect." Been working with PP for a few weeks, but no fix on that one yet. However, after tweaking the background settings, my buoys/segment times are .02 or less, so that part works as advertised...mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller usaski1 Posted April 9, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 9, 2012 How do you adjust.. !!anything!! with the z-box? I couldnt even ger it into cal mode last night?! I thought I hilight gps and press up pr dwn or menu... nothing worked.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mac Posted April 9, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 9, 2012 @rico and usaski...the SG part of Z-box is the same as the previous SG as far as functionality...you can still run CR/CS, CAL, and tweak the background settings to get pretty close to perfect segment times which I have done on my system. Yes, there are Z-box settings where you can adjust the feel of the pull, but these settings will not help the boat "settle down" as usaski was experiencing. @usaski1...if your boat is DBW, then run your auto CR/CS and CAL for your baselines: CR/CS: MENU & UP key, highlight CTRL Settings & press UP, highlight AUTO CR/CS Set, press UP key, accelerate the boat over 3500 rpms, the system will engage and settle back to ~3000 rpms and a message will show the CR/CS has been corrected. CAL: Highlight >, press UP, Highlight SLALOM, press DOWN, ,Highlight CAL BASELINE, press UP, Highlight >, press DOWN, run through the course without a skier Background settings to tweak your segment times: ON/OFF & UP keys together, select a skier weight you want to adjust This should get you close if I didn't mess up the directions:); if these "auto" settings do not help, call PP when you are on the lake; they will walk you through some other ideas...mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller colo_skier Posted April 9, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 9, 2012 Anybody know what the effect of mapping a course with SG that has magnets may have? We have an entrance gate magnet that is missing from 1 direction into the course and I do not pick up readings at the moment so the times are screwed up in that direction. Until we get it fixed I was thinking of using the mapping feature. However I see that the manual says if you map the course then disconnect the smart timer. Anybody mapped a course that has magnets and also left the smart timers on? Just wondering since I would suspect the smart timers are more accurate/realistic of the course. However I don't know which would have precedence if mapped and also smart timer signal present. Sorry it's not really Z-box related, hopefully I can get to that later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller usaski1 Posted April 9, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 9, 2012 @colo_skier I mapped the course and disconnected those timers... It was a great day! I've had no problems with the course mapping, and it so cool now, I don't have to worry about if a course had mags or not. Why would you map the course and leave the mag timers in? Accuracy? Naw.. I ain't worried about that. @mac ... I ran the auto cr/cs function, and it locked in at about 1985 or so. Yup, DBW. Thanks for that tip on the baselines menu.. to be honest, I'm so impressed with the z-box timing, its always on, and I've never had an out of tolerance pass yet, which happened 1/4 the time with SG. I guess if I dropped the baselines by 200 or so it might not come in to hot, but once its hits the gates I'm good with Z-box. Throttle control is VERY important. Easy on, and don't floor it like ZO. thats a lot of it right there in coming in hot. The other thing that pisses me off on PP/SG is that in wakeboard mode, it goes over the speed set in the turns.. Called PP, they said to lower the cr/cs value.. did so, and got no improvement. Only help was to manually pull it down when it starts taking off in wakeboard mode. I think its also going over the set speed in slalom on the pull up. and thats why I come flying into to entrance gates.. Loved the old RPM mode (wakeboard) , but with the system engaged, you cane barely pull up the skier, its engages and screws up the pull up. Taked to PP, they said "manually engage system after the pull up" what a pain. I hear ZO is no better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thompjs Posted April 9, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 9, 2012 colo_skier -- if it is as good as ZO on its speed and distance integration , there is no difference. Now if your course is 10ft to long or short -- well you've got problems anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller colo_skier Posted April 9, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 9, 2012 @usaski1 Thanks I will disconnect the timer map the course and see how that works. I just read in the manual that it stated you may hear the beep prior to entering the gates once the course is mapped but this is normal. Made me a little nervous that it may be a little bit less exact than the magnet pick up. Using the timer the beeps occur exactly at the point the pylon is next to the bouy's and the times without a skier have been spot on. It's been to windy to actually try it with someone skiing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller usaski1 Posted April 10, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 10, 2012 Found the cal mode w/ z-box tonight... going to try bumping down the baseline a bit (200) and see if that helps the gates and setteling in. seemes fine once it hits the course, but getting up to speed is a ride... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_G Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 We used our Z box this weekend for the first time on our 2003 SN196, Already had stargazer, so very easy to fit, removed the timer, mapped our 2 courses checked the baselines and skied, Wow just saved £8K! no longer need to upgrade our boat, it worked very well, no more racing through the gate 1.5KMH faster, it gave 16.97 pass after pass, and all the split times were within 2 thousanths of actual. And it feels just like Zero off. If you havent bought this upgrade go and get it now. And if you are thinking of upgrading your boat save your cash for something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller colo_skier Posted April 12, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 12, 2012 Disconnected the timer mapped the course as stated in the manual and the times were spot on for all 6 buoy's. Also the beep's were exactly as the pylon went between each of the boat guides. I did have to map the course twice since I was a little off the first time. I'm going to have to find a different excuse now!!! No one is skiing well enough at the moment to gauge the Z-box addition. Everyone is using B2 so it should feel pretty much like PP normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller usaski1 Posted April 12, 2012 Baller Share Posted April 12, 2012 hehe.. I think there is a pretty big difference between b2 and classic or even Sg PP. Im on B2 also. As stated, thought I'd try out A1, and got may ass handed to me between 1 and 2. ZOOM! Off to the races! I'm most impressed with the timing in the z-box upgrade. Dispite the yo-yo throttle, times are nearly spot on. Haven't had a slow pass yet. I have found the z-box real touchy.. don't overthrottle! This is not ZO where you push it to the floor. Also set my baselines tonight, and that made a huge difference, doesn't seem to race before the gates anymore... geez I gotta stop posting in this thread.. this is becoming the "Mark Turner" thread.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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