Outside of Florida, how important is 3 event skiing?

[Horton]

I am asking this question because I cannot count 15 jumps in California. I do not know if California reflects the rest of the country. PLEASE understand that I am not ANTI- 3 Event. Simplly taking a poll.

 

The question is two fold. How important is 3 event and is it more of a Florida thing.

 

[Jody_Seal]

South central and southern region thing! however their are hot beds of jumper's in the mid west region and in the east.

Of course in the western region you have a jump Mecca! Goodman's!

[ntx]

Most of the newer multi lake private sites in Texas have jumps. You are starting to see a large number of three event skiers in the SCR. I agree with Jody.

[The_MS]

Bullneck in Little Rock is a pure Jump/trick lake. They slalom when the wind is not good for jumping.

[GAJ0004]

I enjoy a tournament more when there are 3 events. I like being able to slalom and trick, and get the chance to watch jumpers go to work. I usually try to enter 3 event tournaments, but there are a few slalom only tournaments and I try to enter one of those as well. On my lake I only get to slalom in the early morning hours due to the traffic. I can trick the rest of the day. After the 2013 season I will be the only Men 4 trick skier in Ohio.

[Horton]

@GAJ0004 After the 2013 season I will be the only Men 4 trick skier in Ohio.

 

And that says a lot.

[GAJ0004]

There are lots of 3 event skiers in PA, and a few in central Ohio and western Ohio. Northeast Ohio is all slalom specialists.

[Than_Bogan]

My answer is a bit misleading, because I do like the concept of 3-event. But I personally have no interest in trying tricks or jump, so it wouldn't affect my own activities all that much if they went away.

 

But the real danger is on the spectator end. Jump is a great spectator sport. It's simple to understand the goal. It's easy to see the danger. And it has plenty of ooh/aah factor. Best of all, even a beginning jumper can entertain most spectators.

 

Slalom is a pretty bad spectator sport, although the head-to-head format helps a little. Tricks is an awful spectator sport -- all but the best are boring, and the best move so fast that it's a total blur to anybody but a hardcore expert.

 

So if we let jump go away, we REALLY have nothing people will line up to watch!

[GAJ0004]

If I was 20 years younger I would try jumping..

[ToddF]

 

I have never jumped or tricked, but figuring out how the other events can help us grow the sport as a whole would probably do more good than harm.

 

In the water sport pond we are a fairly big fish with the other events being smaller and much smaller. But in the big sports pond we are definitely one of the minnows. When was the last time we were on ESPN? Someone jumping over 15 boats or jumping with one of those skyfly suits would get people showing up.

 

 

We need to hook up with red bull. They have the midas touch.

or the guys who made monster trucks popular.

[GAJ0004]

We don't want someone jumping over boats. It still makes me sick to my stomach when I think when Geoff Carrington had his bad crash. I don't think he ever fully recovered from it. Most people don't even know competitive water skiing exists. When I could see water skiing on TV I liked watching all 3 events, especially tricks. The only people who will watch water ski tournaments are other water skiers. Webcasting all the major events is the way to go..

[MattP]

For those of you responding with

I DO NOT live in Florida => it is NOT important to me that we have Trick and Jump

can you give a justification for this answer other than because I do not compete in trick an jump?

[Bulldog]

Anything that is not wakeboarding is important to our sport.

[rodltg2]

Skied my first tournaments this year. At one event I even entered tricks even though I have only tried it a handful of times many years ago. I had a blast and learned that doing the same tricks back down does not you more points . LOL. Anyhow, I would love to try jump, although at 40 it may not be the best idea !

[ForrestGump]

Jumping is addictive.

[Wish]

I do not trick or jump but know enough who do and really enjoy watching it. Especially the pros.

[Chef23]

I live in Mass and I think there are only two jumps in the state. I know of one in CT, 1 in NH and I think there is 1 in ME. Itis important to me because my son 3 events and we have two other girls in my lake that 3 event but we need to travel an hour to jump so it is tough for them to improve much because they only get to jump about once a week.

[GaryWilkinson]

As a proud Canadian I think it would be a shame to see 3 event skiing go away, we have a proud heritage of 3 event champions especially in the mcClintock family.

 

3 event was where its at when I was young. There were very few specialists, everyone skied all three. I believe there is no other sport with the possible exception of decathlon or pentathlon where the champion has to be skilled in a variety of sports. Look how we'll Wayne Grimditch, Greg Athans and others have done on the world stage.

 

If you've ever tried trick and jump even 1 time, they are thrilling to watch. But for the general public, unfortunately they are less than riveting to watch.

 

I believe the winning combination is slalom, jump and wake boarding for the Mountain Dew audience.

[elr]

Its very hard for your child to be bored at tournaments if they 3 event - slalom only can get boring for the kids in my experience.

[Brady]

In my humble opinion @MattP, I will give you my answer. First off, Jumping. I know of only a couple of jumps in Utah and it is something that I am sure is exhilerating to do, but rather boring to watch. I think that is why there is not a lot of TV exposure, they simply won't get the ratings. It is similar to Golf Long Driving. It is incredible to compete, but after the crowds see ten balls going 400 yards, it becomes boring for the audience. We ALWAYS had a hard time getting crowds to even the finals in Mesquite--the majority of people in the audience were either friends and family of the competitors or other golfers who didn't make the finals.

 

I think very similar when looking at trick skiing. The moves are very technical, but rather boring to watch from a laic point of view. It reminds me of street skateboarding competition, very technical, but from the untrained eye, very hard to tell the difference between many of the tricks. In skateboarding, the half-pipe is the one that gets the highest ratings--it has the crazy element of ski jumping, but there is a big variety in what happens each jump, whereas in ski jumping, it is the same each time.

 

With all that being said, I will support all three events with both my words and my money. It is critical that Wakeboarding doesn't take over as the main water event. Just trying to be as honest as possible to answer your question from a different point of view.

[MattP]

@brady I respect your honesty.

 

Jumping is boring to watch? Slalom can be really boring to watch and I am a slalom skier. Some of the most fun you can have is watching someone taking their first plops and watching guys like Freddy and Dodd boot big jumps. @Horton was a open ranked jumper back in his prime and still coaches jr. tricks. Have you ever been to a professional jump competition? The crashes are just as good as the 250+feet jumps.

First time over a ramp

to the word record stage

 

 

As for trick skiing the moves are very technical I agree with that and some people find it very boring to watch. I enjoy watching tricks, but I can see how watching amateur tricks for a long time could be boring. I am fortunate enough to ski with some very good trickers and the flips and such are really cool to watch. You would want to shoot your self if you watched me trick, actually you would sit there and laugh.

 

I love watching the summer, winter Xgames, the winter and summer DewTours and downhill ski comps. I never have competed in those sports or even been on a snow board or skis, but I get almost as excited as I do watching them as I do when I am watching 3 event skiing. It could be because I know what technical skill it takes to perform such actions and I respect the athletes for what they are doing.

 

I have been following waterskiing for as long as I can remember and though I did not trick until last year and jump until this year I followed those atletes year to year and event to event and this showed me creditability to their sports and a desire to try them. This applies to XGames and Dew Tour athletes as well.

 

I will end with this. I take it you have never tried to hurl your self at a stationary 5.5foot red ramp in the middle of the lake or put your foot in a handle for toe tricks. Don't bash it until you at least try it you will have respect for it.

[GAJ0004]

I have been told the first time you approach the ramp it feels like you are skiing into a brick wall.

[Horton]

My question really is

 

Is slalom the core? And would we have a better chance of growing as a slalom only group?

 

Do boats cost more because of jump?

[rodltg2]

Slalom, jump, wake boarding, barefoot event. That would be an exciting venue.

[fu_man]

Didn't the Masters (a long long time ago) used to require skiers to compete in all 3 events? I'd like to see the pendulum swing more in that direction. Lucky was a good jumper in his day, Andy just showed his trick run is still great, Sammy was great at all 3. However, I have never seen current pro slalom guys do anything but that. CP on a trick ski would be cool to watch.....

 

I recently started on thre trick ski and it is nice to have something else to do but just slalom even though slalom is my favotite event.

[GaryWilkinson]

I believe slalom is the most popular since it is the easiest and cheapest to progress to. (My English teacher is rolling in her grave on that phrase). Most that have tried their combo on and have mastered the wake crossing get their uncle to teach them next to drop a ski and swerve.

 

Jumping and tricks require much more dedication AND access to a boat. You can progress reasonably far with only occasional access to a boat with a cable-pulley rope attachment then i think you're somewhat hooked and can relate to what will Nate and Andy do. If you've never tried a toe 360 you can't relate to how magical it is when the guys and gals do a toe 720 and do 7 flips in 10 seconds.

 

I wish more people had tried all 3!!

 

(Plus I'm tired of people telling me how great their buddy is because he can barefoot!) sheesh!

[RichardDoane]

@shaneh - very true about the addiction to hitting the ramp

@jody_seal - if you ever get to WA state, we'll go up to Borderline

@gaj0004 - it's never too late, I learned to jump at age 40, and it's all @KrLee 's fault

@horton - boat's only cost more for jumping if you buy the "upgrade" engine option

[Ed_Obermeier]

All three disiclipines are subject to ACCESS. Access to a slalom course is an issue for a lot of skiers and potential skiers as is, especially the up-and-coming types that potentially help the sport to grow in numbers. For jump and trick you first gotta be exposed to it to have a chance of getting into it, you've gotta be exposed to someone who does it and can get you stated on the basics. Unless you live on a lake with trickers and/or a club that does it (very limited access to either, in my area anyway) there is no way to know anything about it much less become interested in it. I think there are maybe 3 - 4 jump ramps within 150 miles of where I live (in the middle of Podunk, I know), and 75% of those are in Wichita 170 miles away. Access to jump and trick is way lower than access to a slalom course IMO so it just follows that interest and participation would be lower. It's gotta be available before you can have a chance to give it a go.

[BraceMaker]

Personally I find access to slalom courses harder than access to trick skiing, which can be done in open water.

 

Exposure to trick however is difficult like you said. However I think they do trick in minnesota.

[eleeski]

There are groups who don't care about slalom. But realistically we need all the disciplines.

 

I took up jumping. Maybe I can break 60'. At least it's fun going 50'.

 

Tricks rock!

 

Eric

[GAJ0004]

On one of my trips to Minnesota I got to ski with my cousin and a couple of his friends. All of them tricked. I asked if anyone had a barefoot suit I could borrow. I wanted to barefoot on Pike Lake outside of Duluth. Darren's friends told me there were no local barefooters that they knew. This was in the 1990's. I think the popularity of the different forms of skiing depends on where you go.

[Klundell]

I've been competing in UT for probably 15 years and I don't think there has been a trick or jump event here during that time. It's pretty much extinct here but slalom is doing pretty well considering our limited season.

[6balls]

I have not participated 3-event since college and even then was a slalom specialist who got us team points in trick and jump. Both are indeed fun. Trick/jump are only important to me in that they are towed, competitive watersports that add variety and hopefully as a result more skiers.

@garywilkinson no kidding on the barefoot thing. We've taught our athletic nephews who can't even ski to barefoot in about a day, a few more days to slides and tumble turns. The general public thinks barefooting is the pinnacle.

[jcamp]

It's important to have three events because it provides three opportunities for people to get involved in the sport. Not everyone likes slalom, but maybe tricks or jumping interests them. If they later add another event or two, even better. I think this is especially the case with kids, who seem to like tricking.

[Not_The_Pug]

I enjoy 3 eventing, not very good in any one event, but combined I have a chance of placing at Regionals. Plus if I pay $50 for an entry and get three rides vs. only 1 or 2 if I slalomed only.

 

I try and introduce people to all the events, if only one sticks then we have someone else for the sport.

 

@richardoane - anytime I can help spend your money is a good thing!

[Brady]

@Horton I think that the biggest chance we have to grow the sport is thru slalom and that is where the main focus and resources should be. The reason is very simple: availability

 

Take a brand new person out on the water, and if their choice is trick skis vs wake boarding, they will pick the latter. And with the lack of jumps in abundance, that is not a viable option.

 

Take a person and put them on a pair of skis and let them feel that rush and they have a much better chance of being hooked. I am the youth leader for my local church and I took all of the teenagers out on the boat last summer. Naturally they were all wake boarders and not skiers. Also, like most wake orders, they all sucked. On average, they could jump half the wake and could switch feet, but that was about the extent of what the "average" wake boarder can do. (To become truly proficient at wake boarding, it takes years and a great deal of balls).

 

Wen I had them try skis, they were instantly hooked. They had fun, and could make immediate progress and could see that, with some practice, they could really do it and get the rush from it. I converted about 12 kids to skiing that fast. Now, they are talking about how great my boat is because is DOESN'T make a big wake and I believe they will continue.

 

I believe jumping and trick is a sub set of slalom. As more and more people get involved, they will gravitate to the other venues naturally. But, to promote this sport as a whole, I absolutely believe it starts with slalom.

[als2104]

I don't ski in tournaments anymore, so its not important to me that we have any form of competitive waterskiing. If the question is irrespective of competition, then I think its important that we have whatever forms of watersports that keep us enjoying the sport as a whole.

[The_MS]

I see that USAWS club membership is at $100. Did that go up? I thought it was $75.

[disland]

I was able to ski with a buddy this week that lives in jupiter florida on the intracostal. No way anyone could have slalomed or jumped but I broke out the trick ski and had a blast launching off his wakeboard boat wakes. The point is 3 event skiing is fun, if you arent doing it your missing out

[FrankS]

@MS madness...

[DW]

@JTH: no, jumping requirements don't raise the price since it is an engine option to make a "lower power" DD jump capable and all mfg's offer multiple options. Mass acceptance requirements add more to the cost of the boat, things like cup holders, mega stereo's, blingy dash & interiors . . . all things that a slalom focused session/geeks can do without.

[Horton]

@DW You I trust. Now I know.

[DW]

@JTH: thanks. The looming question is what the boat manufacturers are going to do when the iron block SBC (small block Chevy) goes away shortly. The LS aluminum series is replacing the iron block and costs a lot more so the engine price is going to go up a lot (more than double). The iron block SBC is dirt cheap and an excellent match from a power / torque curve to a slalom boat. The only real negatives are fuel use and weight. In addition, they are really bullet proof compared to other options and are barely stressed in the application.

 

PS: Carol is bummed that you won't let her have some fun with you on FB during F1 season...

[ToddL]

I think it's pretty clear that slalom is the primary event in 3-event skiing. The number of slalom pulls always out numbers trick or jump at most tournaments. There are few jump-only tournaments; I've never seen a trick-only tournament; and there are many slalom-only tournaments. If we accesses AWSA data for any given ski year, the total number of tournament rounds wound show slalom is king.

 

So what!?!?

 

I still trick when the water isn't good enough for slalom... Jumping is exciting, I just can't do it anymore. (I never was any good at jumping,tho.). SCR is full of 3-ev juniors. We had a tournament where trick pulls were as many as slalom, and jump wasn't far behind. Not the norm, but it has happened.

 

Slalom is the gateway drug to our competitive addiction. New competitors often first compete in slalom. Then, later they are tempted by trick or jump. Anything we can do to make novice slalom training and competition dirt cheap and available will grow our sport - and eventually grow all three events.

[klindy]

@ToddL agreed and if you look at collegiate tournaments trick and jump pulls are generally almost on par with slalom. Why because of the team competition!

 

I believe one of the driving forces behind the decline of "competitive waterskiing" is slalom - specifically the trend towards slalom only rating tournaments. Granted it's the most popular discipline and, arguably, the easiest to run but the gradual decline of emphasis on trick and jump and, most importantly, overall has turned us into a slalom specialied sport where every skier looks the same to a layperson.

 

I understand the high speed and technical complexity of tricks makes it difficult to comprehend to a casual observer. Frankly figure skating or diving are at least equally complicated but those venues sell out at the Olympics. Jump is exciting to watch and longest jump wins makes it easy to understand. The argument is there's not enough opportunity to compete or even practice since most jumps are on private lakes. Of course there's the whole "private lake argument" makes access to competitive waterskiing out of reach to the newcomer.

 

If you've ever looked at the Google Earth file of known water ski lakes around the country/world you'll see LOTS of yellow placemarks identifying the sites. Yeah they're usually private sites with limited or no access but so are most golf courses and tennis clubs!! The primary limitation to access to slalom courses are not the private lakes....it's how we collective operate those lakes.

 

Golf courses are built all the time where ALL of them cost significantly more than any ski lake facility and require more land. Even the most exclusive clubs allow for memberships - many times at a VERY high price. Competitive golf is also a 'solo' sport like waterskiing. Tournaments last weekends or more. So what's the difference?

 

Using golf as an example, most amature competitions are handicapped. That handicap is developed by self reporting practice. That encourages practice, encourages club memberships, sells equipment, develops new courses, etc. Signing up for a tournament (that's handicapped) means if you have a good day you have as good of a chance of winning as anyone. In addition, there's lots of different formats - scrambles, best ball, etc. - which keeps encouraging competition.

 

My point is there are other ways to look at things. The Pro-Ams like @OB runs in Atlanta is a great example of ways to encourage growth and competition. Maybe hiring a driver and opening up ski sites to "day skiers"/club members will provide opportunity for new comers. There's many possible tournament formats that can encourange participation and competition. "Events" like overall or various handicap scenarios are all virtual exercises which opens other ways to compete.

 

For 3-event competitive waterskiing all three events are important. If you have any doubt attend a collegiate tournament sometime and get an idea of what team competition with all three events can do to inspire participation.

[ToddL]

A person playing his first game of golf doesn't have to sign up for USAWS to get a tee time to play... Just show up with your own clubs, pay the greens fee and swing away.

[Murrski]

I only compete in slalom but I do like to watch jump. I was a B-Teamer jumper in college and would like to step into the long sticks if our club had a ramp. As far as tricking goes - I'm bored watching it yet I support those that put in the effort to be good at it. I'd probably give it try but I don't want to burn any energy on the water unless I'm swervin buoys!

[fu_man]

@klindy Well put. Don't get me wrong, I am a buoy head. Slalom is by far my favorite event. However, slalom-only is boring. Variety is good..quite frankly that is why I get more excited about women's skiing these days. A handful of Open women tend to ski multiple events as opposed to Open men who tend to be specialists. @horton I know this site tends to be slalom dominated but in light of the growth in readership, maybe forums in trick and jump should be encouraged. Because of the lack of access to trick and jump, a place to post video and ask for help would be encouraging. People do that for slalom, why not the other two?

[lpskier]

It was pretty cool seeing the clip of Jaret going 299. I saw that jump. OWC in Otown. The jump was huge. If I recall correctly, Andy had a wicked crash in a run off with Coxy at the same tournament.

[behindpropellers]

Last time I checked, ski jumps are illegal in Ohio.