Shredded Ankle in Hardshells-pretty much done for season

[skinut]

So first tournament, first set, rounding five ball 32 off, I'm late, I crank a turn on my offside with my nano 1. Boom ski tip finds the water and comes to an abrupt halt. My ankle and shine bone try to touch. End result, as my Ortho put it, Mega Sprain with two chunks of ankle bone ripped off by my tendons. Six weeks in walking cast, who knows how long in rehab. I was wearing Powershells so there was no way I was coming out in that kind of fall. Other than Gator's mod is there any way to prevent this type of injury. Can technique help, what a about a different ski (my prior ski was an X7 and I never had this problem)? I am really worried about doing it again.

[estrom]

Ouch. Hope you have a complete and quick recovery.

[BraceMaker]

Ouch - I'm not sure you'd be OK in any binding on any ski in that type of shut down.

[skibug]

Were you velcroed on the ski? Should it have released?

[ForrestGump]

Sorry to hear that. You're lucky it wasn't worse. Ski really has nothing to do with it. Powershells just don't release in that type of situation.

[jedgell]

That sucks, sorry to hear about that. I miss that tournament, 4th of July at No Wake Lake is great. I'd blame Doug somehow.

[gregy]

@skinut I agree with you on the x7. I could be all over it turn and it never sent me out the front, very forgiving in the turns.

[ozski]

Go back to rubber boots, try the T Factors.

 

[skinut]

@jedgell-Doug was totally to blame. Robert was driving so I'm sure that had something to do with it!

 

Based on other threads it sounds like this is just an inherent danger of water skiing. I was hoping that others had some data on the Reflex in this type of situation. It sounds like it might be a little safer but there is still some risk.

[BraceMaker]

Nothing releases if your heel doesn't wanna come up - which is gator's whole idea - instead of the ankle trying to pull the heel up - the strap heel gets "lifted"

[bishop8950]

Same thing happened to me in Fogmans. I skied again a few months later but shouldn't have. If I were you I would plan on getting the rehab right and don't rush back on the water. If you ski with a limp you will develop bad habits and could get hurt again.

 

I switched to reflex and have had fantastic results. I trust my bindings but its still possible to get hurt, but I think A LOT less likely.

[Brady]

@skinut I am so sorry to hear about your fall. For what its worth, when I played football, I destroyed my RFF right ankle. Since then, I have had 3 complete ankle reconstructions. Basically, my right ankle is a complete mess. Being 250 and 6 foot 7 on the ski, when I go down, every time is a hard fall. The solution I have found is in the Strata boots. The only difference is that now I barely tighten them up. They actually snug up nicely on the course, but almost every fall, including the one you experienced, I come right out with minimal pain. The fall I had on the video I posted was an OTF at the ball where I literally fell forward into the ski--no sideways motion, and I popped right out and was fine.

 

I am open to input on this, but I just don't think it is necessary to be super tight in your bindings. I may be wrong, but my ankles are thanking me.

 

Good luck on the rehab and recovery. That just plain sucks my friend!!

[MrJones]

Sorry to hear about your ankle. I agree with everyone who recommends Reflex. Strada's and rubber will both certainly work. You can ski well on either, but if you are a powershell guy Reflex is going to feel more normal to you. Get an R style rear and an intuition liner. Wrap a velcro strap around the top of the liner and you will think you have a high top hardshell on the back b/c it feels the same. Don't waste your money on the silver reflex liner they sell for it.

 

I hope people reading these threads about powershell injuries will get off of them. I understand the "it won't happen to me" thing, but it will. I had a terrible sprain at the end of the '04 season in them. Kind of put it out of my mind and started back on them in the spring. Fast forward to 2010 and I broke that same ankle in them.

 

I am not a Goode basher at all btw. Just tired of seeing people get hurt needlessly.

[MrJones]

Just a follow up. l spent a year on Strada's before landing in the Reflex system. Had 1 fall that tweaked the front ankle minimally in the Strada. I have been in the Reflex for 2 years now and have not had a fall where I even felt a strain on it. It might happen tomorrow, but for now I could not be happier or feel more confident in my system.

[Ed_Johnson]

Agree that the Reflex White Cuff with the R Style Rear is the safest system going...Unfortunately, I have two sets of Powershells and enough Dual Lock for 20 years.

 

See Andy's Video on his Web-Site as to how to set them up, and he demonstrates the release.

 

http://www.mappleskis.com/value/andy-mapple-tips.php

 

 

[Ed_Johnson]

@OB.........Who is this skier...He is one unlucky SOB !!!

[Ed_Johnson]

I know, just couldn't resist...Must be a Pilot thing !!!!

[gator1]

@Ob: you don't know anybody who got hurt on a gatormod. Of course the sample size is a bit limited to declare success. Only two more centuries of use and my descendents will FRICKING OWN the water ski market.

[BraceMaker]

n=1?

[ral]

The Reflex system tends to release more on this kind of fall, although no system is 100% safe. For this scenario, and without a Gatormod, the plate systems (Fogman, Connely, Exo, Powershell) are most prone to cause injury as the back foot prevents front foot release.

[gator1]

What @ral said. Three of these injuries in the last 3 weeks, and those are only the ones I know of. And many of these are life changing injuries, not a bruise or a scar.

 

@bracemaker, n=1. Should be n=3, since I'm supposed to be making gatormods for two more ballers, and they've signed releases so I have no excuse. Well, its been flat and hot for a week, and my steering cable broke Monday, and I had to go to Portland yesterday, and we had all the kids and grandkids home for the weekend, and and and.

 

@OB, no disrespect. I've been reading your posts, and you seem like a great guy. But I'm flabbergasted and confused by your thought process. You've been crippled by a piece of technology (dual boot plates) that continues to cripple your fellows in a small and tight knit sub-culture, in exactly the same manner that it hurt you. Just the anecdotal data from BOS says that Reflex, Strada are much safer (seen any posts from anybody on BOS that's been hurt like you in either of these two bindings?) Plus opinions from guys who are authoratative sources, like AM and @horton, that concur with the anecdotal data.

 

Is the prospect of switching to other boots too daunting from a learning curve aspect? If so, gatormod is too wacky and unproven? I'm not meaning to bash you, I just want to stop the carnage and you seem like the ideal example of the victims. Get wounded, get back up and limp back into the same machine gun fire. Tough guy, willing to accept the risks of the sport you love, I respect that. But, seriously, with the alternatives, WTF?

[BraceMaker]

@gator1 I have a test sled for your system on hand. I'll shoot you a message once I'm done w/ work.

[Mazda]

Where can you order intuition liners from? Are they the same as the ones used in snow ski boots? Wouldn't a normal reflex liner work with the r style rear binding?

[KcSwerver]

@mazda reflex has a cut down version of liner that fits the shape of the boot, but for someone coming off double hard shells, using the full liner height of a normal liner can mimic the feel of having doubles.

[Klundell]

@skinut were your power shells set up stock or did you remove the rear spring assembly? I can't tell you many times I've stuffed the tip on my off side turn with no serious injury. (Knock on wood).

[jackski]

I had a similar injury last year and was lucky to be off for only 3 weeks (powershells). However since then, I modified my velcro to the recommended amount of strips for weight as posted by someone here (thank you). I also put the bulk of the tape at the front and rear of the plate. Last night I was at ball 4 (35) and had a similar fall again. This time my ski came off, abit like a yard sale, but not injury. Again thanks to whoever (Scott ?) posted the recommended amount of velcro because I'm convinced that saved me.

[Ed_Obermeier]

"Is the prospect of switching to other boots too daunting from a learning curve aspect? If so, gatormod is too wacky and unproven? I'm not meaning to bash you, I just want to stop the carnage and you seem like the ideal example of the victims. Get wounded, get back up and limp back into the same machine gun fire. Tough guy, willing to accept the risks of the sport you love, I respect that. But, seriously, with the alternatives, WTF? "

 

Just an observation here. Does gator 1's advertising model remind anyone a bit of Thomas Wayne's when he first came out with the HandleGuard ? TW proved to be right (IMO anyway) but turned a lot of people off with his "in-your-face, dumbass" approach. Gator, you may be right as well but dude your approach is a total turn off. Just an observation.

[MattP]

@OB gatormod is basically a dog collar and bungee cord...

[skinut]

@Klundel-Kevin-my boots are set to stock(with the spring) with the recommended dual lock for my weight.

[gator1]

@mattp, thanks for your consistent support through this experiment. Your openness to new ideas, and your tolerance for others whose interests in other methods then your "just go ski" mindset, has set a great example for moderators now and in the future. Your technical understanding and summary of my device also sets high standards for reviewers in the future.

@ed obermeier, you are probably right, but since I wasn't trying to sell it I don't care. My day job keeps me out of the weather with food on the table. I was/am trying to help people avoid getting hurt. Polite wasn't working, so I tried some tough love. Interestingly, in the last two days, quite a few ballers have tried to order gatormods from me. I don't have a way to fulfill demand. Anybody out there have a machine shop with an interest in making these? Anybody want to go into business for themselves?

 

As I discussed with @Horton last night, I've enjoyed corresponding with a number of ballers over the past few months, learned how to cure my sore elbow, and I respect and admire what Hortons trying to do with the site. But at this point the time has come to say adios. Anybody that wants to talk, I'm at cgates@keytronic.com.

 

Gator has left the building.

[JohnCox]

@gator1....I'm interested in the curing the sore elbow thing. Totally off subject, but mine is killing me.

[Than_Bogan]

@gator1 Quite sorry to see you go, and I hope you'll change your mind. I think this is the perfect place for "crazy" ideas.

 

I've already sent an email to stay in touch.

[Ed_Johnson]

@JohnCox...I know mine was cured by switching to the US Gear GR Pro-V Radius Handle. Felt immediate improvement, gone in 2 weeks. 13" X 1" with Spectra.

[jimbrake]

I love a good, good-bye post.

[skibug]

Did I just see Ryan Leaf?

[jipster43]

So long @gator1 ! I for one will miss your posts and your enthusiasm for invention.

 

[jcamp]

Wait, a person can "quit" BOS? Tell me how, I need to be more productive at work.

[ForrestGump]

@gator1 Don't leave. No one is ever going to agree with you 100% of the time. Your participation here and your ideas are welcomed.

[Than_Bogan]

@ShaneH I don't know -- lately you and @MattP seem to be agreeing with me all the time. I'm getting quite concerned for all of us! (At least you called me out for being a super-geek, otherwise I'd be panicking.)

[Brady]

I hope his product doesn't give as easy as he does. I think I will invent a product to sell on BoS called gator balls! They allow you to take constructive feedback without the need to "take my ball and go home." Sad, the only one he hurt was himself, and quite frankly, the feedback was spot on. Anyway, let me know if you would like my product!

[jcamp]

I'm sure it's not the first time someone has surrendered after being challenged by a Marine.

[Brady]

@OB I thought the best departing speech was the one @Horton gave to h2odawg. That one was classic! And Guaranteed Gator1 will be back under some anonymous name. This site is worse than Heroin. Once it is in your bloodstream, there is no way out!

[6balls]

Regardless, the tip bite fall is a tough one where the ski tip stop with all of the skier momentum going at high speed forward. It creates a quick dorsi-flexion (foot up toward shin) movement that may result in sprained ankles, broken ankles, partial or complete achilles tears etc.

My two cents is it's far more likely as skiers get to shortline as we get closer to the ball. A little bump from a narrow ball to jump the ski and it catches. I'm in rubber bindings and came out in both cases...both on 3 ball. 2 years ago pretty difficult but no surgery, today luckier and strained lower leg with achilles and ankle ok. Bindings/schmindings we all take a risk every time out there in multiple ways given the forces/speeds we encounter.

Stay thirsty my friends.

[Brady]

@6balls I am still planning on getting up there this year, so save some beverages for me!!!

[6balls]

@brady we gotcha covered.

[londonskier]

I had a similar fall the other day in Double PS's. Cranked my offside turn and Stop! The ski came to a halt and my plate released. Some minor pain in my front foot and ankle, but I skiid another set and pain went in 24 hrs. Seems to me you can get hurt on any bindings. I do wonder however if that's more likely in PS's. I'm not sure. I love my PS's, not many skiers are on them in the UK, so I see more injuries in other types, Strada, Rubber. The problem is, nothing feels as "secure" on my back foot which due to a weak rear ankle, I need. It would be interesting to start a poll. Injured Foot / Ankle? Y/N. Binding? Then we can see the ratio of PS's to others. Someone else do the poll please, I don't know how to.

[popof]

In deed I don't know if it's related, but an X7 and loose-TFactor (I never tighten the laces more than a very little pull) + RTP here and never had that kind of fall either. Now I don't compete in tournaments but still, I've burried the tip a few times, it somehow always seems to come back to skiing position.

But i've never experienced hardshells either so this is all I can say ;)

Good luck with your recovery, hope you heal soon.

Romain

[Klundell]

@skinut I don't know what to say. That just sucks. Get well soon!