Is slalom too easy?

[Than_Bogan]

DISCLAIMER: Thought I'd take a minute to open up a giant can of worms just for some thought-provoking discussion. Please don't kill each other along the way...

 

I am not yet taking a "side" as to whether this is net good or bad; I just think it's interesting how the sport keeps drifting easier.

 

Here are some ways in which slalom has gotten or is getting easier:

 

1) Skis. Anybody who has watched either of my two successful -38 videos on my N1 can tell that this ski is basically cheating. No way in hell do I run a -38 with that form on an older ski -- not even the mighty 9100.

 

2) Boats. Smoother pull, softer wakes, more reliable tracking, etc. I thought the Nautique TSC hull was about as good as it was ever going to get, but the 200 (and apparently now the Prostar as well) seem to be proving me wrong.

 

3) Sites. I haven't built a site, but my impression is that the basic goal of building a site is to make it as easy as possible while clearly adhering to all rules. That's what I'd do if I built one! And certainly I "chase" the easiest sites: I'm way more likely to make a trip to John's Pond or Wrightsville Reservoir than some place where I'm not as likely to get a great score.

 

Just how far we've come was driven home when I was talking to an even-older-than-I-am New England skier. He noted that Oakham MA was considered one of the easiest sites 30 years ago, because it was a private site with fairly consistent conditions. These days, with all of the carefully crafted man-made sites and even just carefully tuned private natural sites, Oakham is one of the toughest tournament sites I go to!

 

4) Technical knowledge. Thanks to sites like this one, along with a ton of amazing ski schools around the country, it's very possible to get very advanced technique knowledge. And the techniques are simply more advanced today than they've ever been.

 

5) Rules. Now some people have lost their minds and want to stop scoring the gates. (Oh wait, that was me...)

[Chef23]

I want to go back to the Northland Bantam behind a 1972 Correct Craft Skier that I learned to run the course with.

 

I do agree that it is easier now than it was when I learned to ski the course but I certainly don't think it is too easy. Talk to me when I have run a 38 in a couple of years then maybe I will agree it is too easy.

 

Frankly I don't think any sport that always ends in failure can ever be too easy.

 

 

[The_MS]

All the new stuff only makes it easier to get a few balls. In the end, you can either ski or you cant and most of it has to do with vision and how you react to what is in front of you.

[ozski]

I know a few people who can't run -38 .....

[Texas6]

Too easy...Great question but I will defer the answer to the following subjects:

1. The pulled muscle in my middle back

2. The torn labrum in my right shoulder

3. Both ankles suffering post-OTF's through the years

4. My torn hands

5. etc etc etc etc

Nope, they all believe the sport is plenty difficult as it is

[ral]

Try snow skiing with 20 year old skis...

[6balls]

Being able to run 35 always seemed like a big separation point back in the day. That now seems to be 38 probably having to do with all that @than_bogan mentioned above.

[jimbrake]

Heck yeah, it's too easy. For Chuck.

 

and apparently for Goodeskier.

 

It's all relative. It may be relatively easy for a moderately skilled skier to run 32 off now, but that used to be a big deal for a very skilled skier because of the equipment and at some sites. The sport just continues to become more refined. It's all evolution, man.

[jimbrake]

@ral - you mean on the new FIS-mandated 35 meter radius GS skis?

[Wish]

Ha, didnt think of snow skiing but had an eye opener there. Moved to FL thinking I'd travel out west just as I did living in MN. 13yrs went by before that happened. I was thankful that the attic space above my garage destroyed my ski boots from the heat as I was forced to rent. The performance of the new parabolic shaped snow skies DID make it easier. A lot easier. Cant imagine going back on a 13 yr old water ski and think I could get anywhere. But with everyone else on new equipment, its all equal. Just means that 35 wasn't easy back then and 38 as a pain now.

[Horton]

Some readers might be insulted by this thread....

 

answer is no

[escmanaze]

I just bought a new really expensive mountain bike 2 years ago after riding my same old hardtail since 95 that was built in 91. Does it make it "easier" to go down hills and off drops? Yes absolutely. Does that also make the sport a lot more fun? Yes absolutely.

 

The average summer will only put me on the lake 15 times a season, so I don't plan on running -38 any time soon. However, do I have a lot more fun because I have a boat/ski combination that helps me run 32 mph at -15 instead of just 28 mph at -15? Yes, absolutely.

 

For a guy who waterskis 200 days a year and runs -38 no problem and simply doesn't have the physical attributes to make it to 39, maybe the equipment spoiled him by getting him to his plateau a bit too soon, so maybe he gets bored being at that plateau all the time. But that won't happen to me any time soon, so I'm not too worried about it. Bring on the best equipment possible!!

 

[Than_Bogan]

@escmanaze I resemble that hypothetical skier! :) And I am pleased to report that I'm having more fun this season that I ever have before!

 

Glad you are too!

[ozski]

I'm sure I can dig up an old HO VTX for anyone who is finding it all too easy :)

[RazorRoss3]

I don't think the sport is too easy but I would draw attention to the customization now available in boat pull now that we've gone from PP Classic where we all got effectively the same pull to ZO+ where there are 9 different boat pull options which potentially makes the sport easier since skiers can tailor the boat path to their ski style ways they couldn't before.

 

Personally I'm not sure we shouldn't have stopped with the simple ABC instead of expanding it to ABC 123 and + but that is a topic for a different thread.

[matt_b]

I wonder if waterskiing was available to the mass's, would running 38 off be common, not for me I know.

[MattP]

I say no. Those that commit to it and excel may make it seem easy to others looking from the outside in but the blood, sweat, tears and bank account say otherwise.

[LeonL]

@RazorRoss3, actually it totals out to be 18 options for ZeroOff RevR.

[ral]

@jimbrake, if your name is ted and your last name ligety they work pretty well.

 

I would not think about getting a FIS ski for GS now. Luckily, for old farts even FIS master's races allow nice "pro" skis that are R21-23...

 

At this stage, snow skiing would be one of the few sports where top end athletes get to use worst gear than the rest...

[SkiJay]

Easy is a relative term. Is it easier to run -32 today than it was 20 years ago? Yes. Is it any easier for a skier to progress beyond the point at which they are currently stuck? Nope, no change. Everyone rises to the limit of their competence, then it's hard, real hard. If anything, what's gotten easier is the opportunity for us to get even more in over our heads.

[ozski]

@Skijay I can hit much further off the tee with modern golf clubs, deeper into the trees in many cases..

[ctsmith]

Than Bogan, elitest jerk :)

[skier2788]

I just keep remembering the book 10,000 hours to excellence. If you are willing to put in the blood sweat and tears in 10,000 hours you will be at the top of the sport. Twenty years ago that might have been into 39 now its 41 or 43. Still takes the same dedication. Just a slightly different end result.

[Ntq206]

No.

I started skiing at the age of 38, and the body position fundamentals are still very difficult and I've learned it is required for any ski or boat I've ridden (old and new) . That's a component that just as difficult as ever and maybe even more so today with bigger boats IMHO.

The rest I believe is relative.

[Jordan]

*** just keep remembering the book 10,000 hours to excellence.***

 

Not in waterskiing. At roughly 16 seconds/pass that would be over 2.2 million passes.

 

Certainly not on my life time. ;-)

[jipster43]

It seems like it is getting harder and harder... to beat Nate Smith!

[gjohnson]

Easy? No way. Come to Minnesota. In the last 12 months, 6 guys have run -38/11.25 violet line in this state at an AWSA sanctioned tournament. Four of them doing it at the Midwest Regional Championships during their only tournament run in MN.

 

So in twelve months here is the list of guys who did it.

Darren Janzig (Only Minnesotan on the list)

Mark Brandt

 

The following four did it at the Midwest Regional championships.

Scott Tynan

Bart Rachwal

Mark Johnson

Nate Smith

[A_B]

Panda worthy IMO.....

[skiray]

Is too easy... That's a good one.

 

Too easy to go broke buying new skis / boats / traveling to tournaments.

Too easy to eat crow. "Piss on this, I'm selling my stuff!.... We skiing Tuesday?"

Too easy to surf the Internet. My default page is BOS.

Too easy to lie. "I'm just skiing against myself." Which is code for I'm working as hard as I can and will beat his A$$ as soon as I get the chance.

Too easy to get caught up in the hype of the higher scores. Doesn't make it easier to get on the podium...

 

When I started skiing in the late 80's 2@38 was required to get an open rating. Today those same guys have to ski 2@39 to ski MM. I realize it's only 34.2, I guess that's why it's so easy...

 

Too easy for me to keep chasing the dream. Maybe I will finally qualify for National's next year...

[ToddF]

@skijay nailed it.

 

I would like to see the average scores progression from the seventies through now. Take that data and come up with some comparisons, such as who is the better skier: 22 off in 1978 or 32 off in 2013

 

Which change has allowed the skier to make the greatest gains: the ski? the adjustable fin? the boat?

[GAJ0004]

I don't think the sport is any easier.. Since we can't send today's boats and equipment back in time we will never know for sure. The advantage of today is there is more known about sports nutrition, training etc.. If the equipment were such a boost then I should be able to ski better in a tournament than I do back home. I am thinking I practice behind a 19 year old boat, but get behind the latest technology in a tournament. Water ski magazine did an article on a similar topic a long time ago..

[footloose42]

I presume you go running in your dress shoes, because putting on those new sneakers would make it "too easy"

[escmanaze]

That's exactly right @Than_Bogan. I haven't yet met anybody who skis the course who has said to me "Oh, I just wasn't having fun anymore because it was too easy." I think that when our equipment makes up for our faults and allows us to ski / ride bikes at even higher levels than we would have otherwise done, it actually makes the sport more fun instead of less fun.

 

Does a Ferrari allow you to do a lap in 30 seconds that would take 60 seconds in the Nissan Sentra? Yes - That's why it's so dang fun to drive!!!

[LeSkiAvantTout]

As a purely recreational skier I'd argue it's anything but easy, requiring time, physical effort, £/$, an understanding partner/family and a huge dose of humility and I'm sure there's plenty that can be added to that list. If I want easy I'll go to my local pub drink some beer and play pool (with more success than slalom skiing)!

[A_B]

Go to to any sporting goods store. Go over to the exercise area and put on their 20 pound weighted jacket, then imagine wearing 3 of them and saying hit it. Ski a few rounds in my bindings and then tell me how easy it is. :)

[woolly110]

i would say its less physically hard than it used to be. but there is always more bouys to get.

[John Brooks]

If it was called "easy" it would be jet skiing or wakeboarding.

[BCM]

Until you find a way to ski every length on the line, it isn't too easy. Waterskiing is a game you cannot beat. After each successful pass there is another line length until it will be physically impossible to hang on to the handle and have your ski go around the ball.

 

[otisg]

I don't think it is "Too Easy"?

But a 7 ball course would make it much more interesting forcing all to set up on our Bad sides on one pass or the other...

I bet that you would see a drastic lowering of scores.

[ForrestGump]

Keep in mind that not only have skis, boats, and sites gotten better........... but technique made a great leap forward. Regardless, 38 is still hard.

[TheBigHead]

@otisg except a lot of us would gain a "on side" set up

 

The only easy things in this sport are spending money and getting injured.

[A_B]

I'm waiting for a ski with on the go switchable bindings so you can move your feet back and forth and have two onside turns while your skiing.

 

I do have some older HO and KD skis in my basement in case someone wants to make slalom skiing harder...

[scuppers]

If "easier" is the case - then the same is true of every other sport - speeds/times for down hill, home runs in baseball on and on hey the cars are so fast now in top fuel that they had to shorten the track. Still very difficult to win a top fuel race. NASCAR.......

[Skoot1123]

I would say NOT easier. Scores higher? - YES. But not easier - the playing field is just elevated from where it was back in the day. I'll take the nice flat wakes, better ski's and more consistant pulls any day!

[Than_Bogan]

Well this has been fun so far! Surpisingly universal opinion: Higher scores due to a lot of factors, but that's a good thing.

 

Not exactly how I thought this was going to play out, given what seemed like a lot of concern about potential rules changes sending scores yet higher.

 

[A_B]

Pot stirrer

[ricar116]

Well I ski behind a 20 year old Nautique once a week on a public lake 3 mos out of the year with a portable course. Me and my ski buddy and our boys are learning the course on our second season. The most challenging sport I have ever attempted to learn ...and I always look forward to the next set. Even with the technology there is nothing easy about it... at least to me guess that's why I keep going back. I know it's a different level than how you guys live, but it's all relative.

[jcamp]

Sometimes I think @Horton pays @Than_Bogan for every comment his threads earn.

[ToddL]

As all of the elements advance, all of the skiers who can access those elements advance as a group. Thus, the average advanced tournament skier used to be -22 off, now -32. The elite used to be -39.5, now -43. So, relative to each other, we are all in the same spot. All of the advances just push each of our individual limits up a bit higher, but our individual limits compared to each other or compared to the elite are still about the same.

[A_B]

If you want to know how hard this sport is, work with beginners. It is VERY challenging to learn how to cut through the wakes, not stand on your back foot, hold the handle in tight to waist, etc....... I have worked with several and working with 3 newbies right now. All fairly athletic people, and all are working hard to improve. No gimmies in this sport.