jwroblew Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Over the past 7 years I have been renting a lake in the middle of a corn field for what I consider a steal. At the inception of the club I was the only one with a boat and the only one that could afford it. We started with three members who split the cost of the lake rent; I took the hit on the boat, just so I would have people to ski with. As the years went by the club is up to 10 people now and I’m still taking the hit on the boat. A although I’m not aware of everyone’s finical status I can say that everyone else in the club has multiple toys: motorcycles, snowmobiles, cars, etc. so I would think it is time for them to pony up. Bottom line, although I can afford it, I don’t think it is fair to shoulder the burden any longer. So I was going to up the club membership for the 10 people to $1,925. Which includes the use of the lake, depreciation on a 2015 MC Prostar and any gas that is needed. This will be roughly $1,000 more than what people are paying now. I’m I being unreasonable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller andjules Posted November 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 17, 2014 It kind of depends on where you are & how often people ski. If you're somewhere north with a short season, and the average skier only skis (let's say) 30 sets/yr at the club, then by raising membership fees by $1k, the average skier pays $33 more per set, and @ $1,925/yr, that's almost $65/set total, which is at the low-end of the ski-school-for-profit bracket. On the other hand, if you're in the south and I'm skiing 80+ sets a year, the equation is quite different. So think about what the alternatives are in your neck of the woods (are there ski schools? public lakes with courses? are you the only game in town?). The other big factor here is to gauge how both i) you and ii) your members feel about shiny new boats. I'd much sooner pay a little less and ski behind (e.g.) a 2007, but that's me ("frugal"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Chef23 Posted November 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 17, 2014 I don't think you are out of line at all. I would jump at the chance to ski at a private site including a new MC for $2K. I totally agree that you shouldn't bear the burden of the boat if people can afford it. A friend of mine that runs a boat syndicate at a private lake has everyone buy into the boat then put in $5 per set on top of gas to cover the cost of rolling into a new boat every two years. The boat buy in is a lot more than the money you are charging. They also have dues to pay for the lake on top of the boat costs. It sounds like a steal to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeprunc Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I'd expect that a few people to walk away if the price increases that much. Something better would be to sit down with the members and show them the finances. Show them how much $$ you have put into it and get a feeling for if members are willing to pay more. Figure out a number and give them the option to vote for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 9400 Posted November 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 17, 2014 I payed that more than 20 years ago. Do you also have a per set charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skier2788 Posted November 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 17, 2014 I Pay that and use my boat and pay for all the fuel. I do think you will lose members with the sticker shock of a 1k increase. It isn't ideal but could you raise it 250 over the next 4 years? Might be an easier pill to swallow. Or like @Joeprunc said sit them down and get a feel of how they will react. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller SkiJay Posted November 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 17, 2014 Over $2,600 each for two clubs, one in the States and one in Canada, one with one lake and 15 members, the other with two lakes and 85 members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Bruce_Butterfield Posted November 17, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted November 17, 2014 $2k per year including gas for a private lake and a new boat? That's a steal any way you look at it! If it was easy, they would call it Wakeboarding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted November 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 17, 2014 I have to agree with @Joeprunc. With only 10 members, it is a small enough group to just discuss the situation. Bottom line is that you will have to stop providing a "club" boat or they will have to contribute more going forward. Work out some varied pricing options. Present them as draft ideas and ask for inputs on other ideas. Just expect that there will be someone who will get frustrated by the potential change. Also, investigate alternatives in the area. You need to know what it costs to ski at the nearest alternative lakes. You need to objectively compare the cost/value of those alternatives to your site's proposed pricing. Your members will be doing this, so you should know in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddF Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 2K with a new boat I agree. that is reasonable for sure, If you are including gas? then I might move and ski there too. I suppose anyone who doesn't like the price increase will find somewhere else to ski and others will sign up in their place. 10 years ago we used to pay 2600, maintained the grounds and the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Marco Posted November 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 17, 2014 I live on a small private lake (5 homeowners) and our HOA dues are in the neighborhood of $2700 per year, and that does not include a boat. My daughter is a member at a private lake and I think the dues are in the neighborhood of $2750 plus $31 per hour for the boat. I don't think 2K is too much to ask at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mwetskier Posted November 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 17, 2014 the pill will be a lot easier to swallow if you have assembled numbers so you can detail what it costs you to make the whole thing happen. if you show themt you are currently subsidizing their skiing then they are more likely to see the increase in a favorable light. with out those numbers some of them may think you are trying to ' profit ' from their addiction. after 7 years you can bet they take use of the lake and your boat as a given and dont ever think about what their skiing costs you so you need to make that the first thing to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Chef23 Posted November 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 17, 2014 I agree that it makes sense to sit down and discuss the numbers with them but the boat alone is $60K anyway. $2K to ski seems like a bargain. I could see if there are some members that don't ski much but figure $1K isn't a lot of money that you might lose them but if people ski a few times a week and you discuss it with them I would think you wouldn't have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwroblew Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Thanks for all the feedback. Yes the $1,925 does include gas. I did send out a budget for were the break down was, lake rent, boat cost, gas, course supplies etc. so everyone could see how there money is being spent. I did offer another plan of $500 up front and $5 dollars a pass so about $30 for a typical set extra. I didn't track sets last year but passes everyone skied, so If I divide the passes by 6 to get a set count, most everyone was in the mid to high 60's. I had one person in the 30's. All the clubs around me charge anywhere between $1,850 to $2,500 not including gas. I would hate to see people leave, but at the same time I hate being taken advantage of. And it seems like there will always be a back fill of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GOODESkier Posted November 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 17, 2014 I belong to 3 different groups/clubs: 1. I have a course on a public river in front of my house. I share it with 5 other families. We all kick in about $50 a year for new balls and replacement hardware for the course. Everyone uses their own boat and covers their own costs. Ski as much or little as you want/can. 2. I rent a swamp with about 5 other families 30 minutes from my house. It was around $300 for club dues last year. Everyone uses their own boat and covers all their own expenses. Ski as much or little as you want/can. 3. I joined a club 5 hours from my house (Wife's family all lives there!). I joined as a casual member and the cost was $250 Canadian. Then I pay $30 Canadian for each set of 6 passes. Since I am only at this site about 12-15 sets a year, this work out better than their full member ship of $1250.00 dues and $10 per set of 6 passes. The boat is a new CC200 and almost always has a driver scheduled to drive and paid for by the club. I book my time on the website, show up, hand the driver my handle, ski my set! I don't want to add up my expenses this year.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Skoot1123 Posted November 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 17, 2014 Ok - now I feel like it is super cheap where we ski! We paid $600 for our club dues this year and the previous year. Before then it was $500. Yes - PER YEAR. So really cheap, but you brought your own boat as there wasn't any club boat or club driver. The owners on the lake basically want to have someone cut the grass and help maintain the ski lakes - which the ski club does. The owners of the lake get "paid" but I think it basically covers the cost of insurance premiums and a nice dinner. Next year - I probably won't have to pay a "club" fee....but the expenses will probably be FAR ABOVE $600. Private site? Priceless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MISkier Posted November 17, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted November 17, 2014 I belong to two clubs. Both are on private, purpose-built slalom lakes. They have a similar number of members. One is $175 per year and you use your own boat and gas. The other is $2250 and includes the boat and gas. I do not think $2000 is out of line for a private site with boat and gas. The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skiboat38 Posted November 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 17, 2014 We are a small club....750 a year...respect each other and carry your weight...good friends and it works well...Use your own boat and provide your own gas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Razorskier1 Posted November 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 17, 2014 I think that's dirt cheap compared to the alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jerrym Posted November 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 17, 2014 Our club is $2k per year including boat but not gas. In addition, we loan the club money in order to buy the boat. We're all more than happy with this arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller escmanaze Posted November 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 17, 2014 Alternatively, you could keep prices the same and tell them to bring their own boat? Then you would be just about in line with pioneer lake here in Utah. If i understand correctly, they are about $1200 per year and it is byob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GOODESkier Posted November 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 17, 2014 @richarddoane what is the membership costs at BROHO? That is a bring your own boat set up correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted November 17, 2014 Administrators Share Posted November 17, 2014 My HOA dues alone are $7,200 per year Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted November 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 17, 2014 @Horton how much of that goes to pump water? There are only 8 owners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted November 17, 2014 Administrators Share Posted November 17, 2014 6 Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller gsm_peter Posted November 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 17, 2014 Not useful in US but maybe intresting as comparison. Our club in Sweden has approx 80 members. Type 25 ski a lot. We have a club house, boat house, one course. Boat is SN 196 from 2007. Everybody has to help to maintain our stuff. Individual gas. Unlimited skiing. We drive each other. Skiers pay type 400 usd per year. Family and kid, youth discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jimbrake Posted November 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 17, 2014 $2,400 per year for me and my two boys. One club boat, one member's promo. Pay $13 per set to cover gas, maintenance, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GregHind Posted November 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 17, 2014 The new price is fair but I would have left the fee the same as it was and added a per set fee. Takes the sticker shock out of it and also makes it easier to raise the fees when boat or gas prices go up. Eg $1000 season fee plus $15/set Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller LeonL Posted November 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 17, 2014 @jwroblew, based on what you say about other opportunities in the area, you won't have to worry about losing anyone to the competition. Oh, you may lose a true cheapskate or two, but they'll just quit skiing instead of going elsewhere unless of course they're really dedicated and cheap too. Your prices are more than fair. Just taken the advice given above. Lay it all out to them and show them how you've carried them for seven years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DmaxJC_ski Posted November 18, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 18, 2014 I'm not a member anywhere but I have payed $55 -$70 per set Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller savaiusini Posted November 18, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 18, 2014 $3000/year for me and the wife... Sam Avaiusini - HO Sports Company - Director of Inside Sales and Business Operations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller gregy Posted November 18, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 18, 2014 Use of a new MC is worth a lot. Storing, maintenance, towing boat back and forth, plus time spent doing all of these. Really adds up. Plus your paying for gas. Seems like a pretty good deal but your group my be a little too spoiled already. I always have a list of things I want to do to my boat but never seem to have time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swerveit Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 intersting: In the UK we have a number of ski clubs with annual membership and price per tow £400 membership £20 to £24 per tow current exchange rate $600 membership $30-$34 per tow behind a SN 200 gas converted. edit: I ski around 6-8 times a week for May-August probably 5 for the summer. October- April maybe once a week if that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skidawg Posted November 18, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 18, 2014 $3000/year covers 1-4 members (family)- one club boat "CENTURION". Fees cover boat, gas, insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jimbrake Posted November 18, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 18, 2014 @skidawg - that is a very fair deal for the skier family. Four tournament-oriented, 3-event ski hogs can use a lot of gas. Wait, do you have a ramp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skidawg Posted November 18, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 18, 2014 @jimbrake - sold the jump years ago, slalom/trick only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ RichardDoane Posted November 18, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted November 18, 2014 @goodeskier - Broho for me is $2300. /year, supply your own boat/gas, use of the lake any day/time. I just wish it was closer to my house, it's the hour + drive time each way that is the expensive part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwroblew Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 @GregHind I thought about the Lower upfront cost $1,000 plus $3 a pass, but the people that actually responded to my questions had an easier time with the larger up front cost. Maybe they felt like they were not getting nickel and dimed. So far 7 of the 10 people said they would be back at the new increase price. I also did say if they could find a better club price in the USA that included boat and gas I would match it. After reading all your responses, I'm not to worried about that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kstateskier Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 $750 per year, but we each have our own boat. If there had been a $2000 per year option with boat & gas included I would have jumped at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwroblew Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 Oh and I will be putting in a jump next year. No one in the club besides my family will most likely use it, so I was not going to pass that expense on to anyone else. If people want to jump in the future I was going to add an additional jump fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rayn Posted November 18, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 18, 2014 Private lake, brand new mc. Unlimited sets. gas. Maintenance no trailing etc . Great coach to ski with - all for 2k seems to be a no brainier. Hope to see you at Coble's this year! - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller gsm_peter Posted November 18, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 18, 2014 Some clubs in Sweden are very cheap. They can even get some l'ocal goverment support'. On the low end I have seen close to 100 usd per year. Unlimited skiing. Gas is never included. Ok they are rare and none of these are close to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller A_B Posted November 18, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 18, 2014 We had a BYOB rule and everyone pitched in gas money so the owner basically didn't pay for his gas, non boat owners paid in more gas. We were $500 for the year and when we wanted to go to $650 and give one of the lake owners first dibs on a day or two so he could take his kids out (which rarely happened), you would have thought we were ripping their livers out without anesthesia. We wanted to buy more rip rap and make it better for everyone. Basically the club shut down, so me and the other owner paid for it and now we enjoy it ourselves and don't have to beg people to work or pay dues. The guys who dropped out now drive further away and I think they all pitch in for a club boat, and it's in the $1500 range plus gas if I remember. The two other guys built their own lakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GOODESkier Posted November 19, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 19, 2014 @richarddoane I have the proximity in my favor, just not the pristine. All of my sites have their own issues unique to their lack of design (All natural bodies of water initially). Hoping someday to live on a real one, but until then....... I enjoy the sites I have and THANK everyone that has been so nice as to let me ski on their lake behind their boat! THIS IS A GREAT SPORT AND A GREAT GROUP OF PEOPLE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jetpilotg4 Posted November 19, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 19, 2014 I wanna know where's the lake and where do I sign up ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted November 19, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 19, 2014 We rent a farm puddle where 2 courses fit for $750/yr split between two of us so $375 each. We keep a dock, boat lift, SN196 and the two courses there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ lpskier Posted November 19, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted November 19, 2014 I pay $3600 to rent a boat slip on a public lake in Northern NY, plus another $200 to park my car. I maintain my own slalom course (that you can only ski between sun up and about 9:00 AM and then you are blown out or other boats are out), own and insure my boat, and keep it tuned up and full of gas. The ski season on the lake is May to Mid October if you are hardy, and ice out to ice in if you are super hardy. No matter how you cut it, eight months of boating and skiing is what you get at best, more like seven. LaPoints' here in Otown is $2000 per year and $10 per set, and you can ski all day all year. If you bring a friend, $10 per set. I see that as a screaming deal. Lpskier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller LeonL Posted November 19, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 19, 2014 What kind of rates does Lapoint have for a drop in, from out of state for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingshredd Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I am looking at paying 1800.00$ for next year. You bring your own boat and have use of two lakes. One slalom one wakeboard lake. My whole family is included and can bring guest with a signed waiver. It's about 30 minutes from my house. You can leave your boat on site if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ lpskier Posted November 20, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted November 20, 2014 @LeonL Kris charges $30 an uninstructed set. If you are interested, contact me directly and I'll give you Kris's contact info, or just go to http://lapointskipark.com and go to "contact us." All his contact info is right there. Lpskier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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