Skiing behind outboard boats

[bowty]

Anyone here ski behind an outboard? Our current boat is a '99 Stratos fish and ski with a 150 hp evinrude on the back. After skiing behind a real ski boat for the first time this year, I can't believe I was able to ski behind our boat. The wake is tall and hard, anyone know the reason for this? Also no ski platform which makes it near impossible to put double boot skis on. Wasn't a problem when I was using the rubber binding recreational ski, but Vapor boots are something else when you're trying to put them on in the boat. I now have tons of respect for anyone that can ski proficiently without a ski boat.

 

Also, if I get a ski boat the trolling motor and fishfinder from the old boat WILL be getting mounted on the ski boat.

 

[6balls]

Trained barefoot Centurions with 225 yamahas for years. Had better long line and slow speed wakes than any inboards of the day. Better in fact thru 28 off 36 mph. Shorter than that wake was small but hard and the inboard won. As a toe loop skier the platforms worked. I still own one, but don't use it for slalom anymore...family and footing boat. I do free ski it a time or two each spring after ice out breaking in the sea legs and ski muscles. Best pass on the old girl back in the day was a few balls at 35 off 36 mph. The Old Man had his hands full with maintaining center line and hand driving/timing. Great father-son memories.

[Ilivetoski]

My dad owned a couple Sea Ray 185 outboard. I skied tournaments for 2 years while we still had an outboard and I skied on a 20 year old Jobe 1600. I dont remember the wakes being tall and hard, they were actually pretty small. I think the issue for me came from no cruise control. My mom will not drive the 'Bu. Says that the 340 hp V8 is too much power for her vs. the 140 hp V6 he we had on the sea ray.

[GregHind]

@bowty I sure do. Check out my posts from yesterday you can see three different outboard ski boats in it

 

If your wake is tall then you possibly have too much weight in the back of the boat. Fuel? Batteries? Oil? Junk?

 

It is quite practical to install a "cav plate" (centre trim tab in front of the engine) to tune the wake and make it heaps smaller.

 

What does your boat look like? How about a photo of the engine/transom

 

 

[GregHind]

 

[GregHind]

My boat benefits from a plate because it is fairly big. Similar in size to say a TXI but no engine in the middle. We often have women slaloming at 26mph with 6+ adults in the boat so the plate helps a lot.

 

Some of the other outboards like the Stejcraft Pro Skier have a tiny wash. Substantially nicer than even a TXI for recreational skiing or longline course at any speed.

[I5boi]

That trailer fits perfectly.

[DmaxJC_ski]

I ski lots behind a campion chase, 175 Yamaha hpdi, wake is super flat and boat pulls good. Grew up skiing behind a 16ft tri hull, as a driver they are a bit tougher to control in the course.

[xrated]

Learned and still ski often behind a 18' Starcraft with 115 merc 4 stroke.

 

I also ski often behind a mid 80s MC and a mid 90s Bu.

 

To be honest for me the wakes are best on the outboard. But it is work to get up on one ski, work to get the ski on and turns, etc of the boat are not as nice. But I am most comfortable behind that boat and find I ski best. Of course the boat is more forgiving and lets me get away with sloppy form.

 

Just the observations from a dedicated free skier.

 

When I buy a family boat that is bigger than a 15 horse, it will be a dedicated ski boat.

[bowty]

@GregHind‌ I would post pictures, but I'm currently in Florida and the boat is in storage for the winter in Nebraska. Tall probably isn't the right word to describe the wakes, it's not the height that's the problem as they are similar in size to an inboard wake, maybe slightly higher. The thing I'd like to find a way around is the hardness of the wake. Does the plate help with that? Also where does the hardness come from? The only thing I could think of is the prop mixing air into the water, but that still doesn't seem likely.

[eleeski]

In the old days I had some very nice outboard rides. They were a bit harder to drive but skied OK. Things like steering cables and throttle cables were critical. The slalom wakes were tiny and the trick wakes a bit too small - hmmm, sounds familiar to today's situation.

 

Are any outboards set up with ZO? Or PP?

 

Eric

[6balls]

@eleeski @ryno has one.

[Ed_Obermeier]

Best outboard ski boat I've ever seen/skied is a Tahoe 20' deck boat. Had a 150 Yamaha OB with a Mercury High 5 prop on it. Hole shot and wake were as good as the best inboard and it actually tracked well in the course too. Used the front of the boat to put the ski on (textured fiberglass deck surface, had to put a throw rug down to keep it from being slick), bit more of a drop in to the water but doable. For someone looking for a crossover family boat that skied well this IMO would be the setup. Top end speed obviously sucked with the High 5 prop but otherwise a workable tradeoff.

[Spuddy]

I skied behind a Barefoot 200 for a number of years, the last three years we had a course. It's not bad for open water, in the course after 22 off you really start to notice the speed and tracking, both driving and skiing!

[ALPJr]

Two ski buddies have Flightcraft XLOB's. One is an original Flightcraft from AU, the other is a Malibu Flightcraft. Both have 200hp Mariner power. Both ski and drive very well, and have a nice amount of interior floor space. They have a bit more give at the finish of the turn than the PS190's on our pond, which requires a slight adjustment on the skier's part to keep the line tight.

 

Back in the day we skied behind outboards exclusively until I discovered buoys in 1989 - 16' Checkmate CB, 16' Glastron V164(io), 16' Larson OB, 15' Glastron GT150, 14' Glastron GT143, 14ft MFG Corvette II, 13' Boston Whaler... All very good for what we were doing at the time.

[liquid d]

Glastron Ski Machine!

[liquid d]

http://s21.photobucket.com/user/Musmaro13/media/Stuff%20For%20Sale/Boat/Picture908.jpg.html

[bowty]

@liquid d‌ That is one cool boat, looks brand new

[liquid d]

Not mine, just a photo I grabbed from net so people could see what they looked like. My brother was a rep for Glastron Carlson when I was in high school. He lived in an apartment and I still lived with mom and dad at the lake. So, we got to keep his demo boats at our house. I had a brand new Glastron about every 3 months! Cvx's, CV16's, the Ski Machine was my favorite....had a blue one and a gold one for a while. The ski machine was not only a great slalom boat, but fast...pulled a lot of footers with it too.

[Dacon62]

My first boat was a 16' Swiftsure which was a copy of the Glastron.

It had a 115hp Mercury skinny straight six. It already had a good tripod style pylon but

I made it more slalom course freindly by turning the observer seat around, adding a large rear view mirror, fabricating a rope guard loop so the rope wouldn't snag on the motor and propping down to a 17" pitch.

I had a short line skier that was sponsored by an early model year supra join us for some ski lessons and he said my boat yanked him out of the hole faster than his.

Man we skied our faces off in those years, no family yet, just non stop fun, went out every chance we had.

While skiing is still a passion nothing can compare to the excitement of those early years.

[GAJ0004]

I skied behind a Hydrodyne outboard, I am thinking a mid 90's outboard. It skied nice. The wake was big, but it was really soft and easy to cut through. It was almost a foot high at 15 off, but I did not feel a bump at all. There is a company called Dyna-Ski that makes boats using the same molds.

[6balls]

This is a pic of my Centurion Falcon Barefoot--at that time my Dad's. The pic taken from another outboard Ski Centurion Barefoot Warrior that was @razorskier1's

 

 

[andjules]

From about the mid-70s to the early 90s, most everyone in Ontario & Quebec cottage country skied behind J-Crafts. Despite 1-2 tracking fins, they didn't track worth a damn, but you couldn't beat the (lack of) wake or spray.

 

 

[Spuddy]

@andjules‌ I ski in Ontario and agree about the J Craft! I skied behind one for the first time in I think 1988, thought it was the greatest boat in the world! Of course I was around 12 so anything with a big outboard was cool! After skiing behind a real tournament boat a few years after that my opinion on the J Craft changed drastically!!

[bassfooter]

@skibrain‌ The Barefoot 200 came out in 1991. It has a V-hull with a great hole shot and good top-end, but it tracks poorly, so it's not very good for course skiing.

 

The Prostar 200 before it is actually pretty decent in the course at slower speeds and longer line lengths. It's basically their Prostar 190 hull -- tracking fins and all -- with a different layout for an outboard. It's wake is almost non-existent. I would recommend this boat to anyone who needs or prefers an outboard rig for serious skiing.

 

Both are great rigs, but are no substitute for an inboard when it comes to trick wakes and slalom course performance. Plus you can't beat an inboard's full swim platform for convenience. A recreational club here in San Diego has one of each, and they love those boats to death. They beat the crap out of them pulling skiers year-round on Mission Bay and at the Colorado River, where they can run them up on sandbars without any concerns. You don't want to do that with an inboard. The Yama 200s on those things are thirsty, but bulletproof.

 

 

[6balls]

Unless there is a lot of people in them, they often stink for trick/wakeboard as it's hard to keep that particular speed. The boat can't decide if it's going to sink back into the hole or break onto plane and gain 5 mph.

[estrom]

We used an Avenger O/B (similar to Sanger barefooter in looks) for 25 years and LOVED it. Smallest, smoothest wake ever, and fun to drive! Sports car on the water.

 

[Ryno]

It's only taken me 6 months to read this and now I have to chime in!

I'm a big fan of outboard slalom boats and the right boat when properly setup will rival most of the best 3 event boats of the previous years.

I have used a Flightcraft 18XL with Perfectpass (and z-box) since 2010...

 

... and I've now just upgraded to a 2000 Malibu Barefooter, and have installed Perfectpass and swapped the Z-box across from the old boat. This boat has a direct injected Optimax outboard, which is unreal. The torque would rival any inboard and the throttle response is instant, so it performs very well with the Z-box. I've only ever seen times through the course between 16.08 and 16.11s. You can also hear the engine surge to compensate for the skiers pull, similar to the inboard z-box videos I've seen posted on here.

I expected the wake to be worse than the Flighty as the hull is essentially the same design, but it is a heavier boat, however it has a flatter table and I actually prefer it.

 

When I get a chance I'll put up a video of me running through the course behind it, so you can see what the wake looks like.

[6balls]

@ryno sweet boat!

[Jibbo]

@ryno We have a friend who has a Flightcraft 18XLT outboard that is looking at adding stargazer or even z-box to the perfect pass system they have used for a number of years. Any additional info on set-up you have used would be appreciated.

[ALPJr]

We ski behind a Malibu Flightcraft OB about 30% of the time. 200 FI Merc hot rod. Great boat - nice design, roomy for a closed bow, rides nice, handles well, easy to trailer, pull is more forgiving than the 97 MC 190 we ski behind. Surprised no one is making a similar boat these days.

[ALPJr]

Last fall

[GOODESkier]

I skied a j craft in Quebec many years ago. Remember having fun pulling the boat all over!

[Ryno]

@Jibbo I'm happy to pass on any info he needs, as I've now done this install on two very different Mercury outboards. Just click on my profile and pass on my email details.

[Ryno]

Hopefully this link works... This is the video of my Malibu Barefooter to show you the wake at 58kph. You really don't notice it when you're skiing through the course. It seems that because of the flatter table the ski settles better after crossing the wake (when compared to the Flightcraft) but there's probably not much in it.

Don't be too hard on my skiing, I've been away from the slalom course for 18 months!

 

http://vid1059.photobucket.com/albums/t440/RyanJMcGill/IMG_2978_zpsxwwpvtrx.mp4

[foxriverat]

@Ryno Love the malibu barefooter. Used to have a 95 that I bought in 96. It was a demo from Tommy Bartlett water show. It was like a sports car with that 200 merc and stainless high 5 blade. It would rock a little on hard pulls with the higher pylon. And sitting on that little platform trying to get those tight wileys highwraps on were a little tough. Keep a picture of it on my desk when me and the wife were dating.

 

[Ryno]

@foxriverrat awesome mate!

I have to have an outboard due to the shallow nature of the lake I live on, but I must admit I have always had a love for outboards. I cannot think of a boat I'd rather have than my Barefooter, it's a shame you moved on from it!

[dihrdskir]

Hi Ryno,

Love the 2000 model 20. Where the hell did you find it and how did you convince the owner to part with her? Good for another 15 years of fun for sure. I've had a couple of 18's and loved them to bits but my fruitless searches has led me to a 2000 stejcraft pro skier. The walkaround boarding platform is a huge win but the flighty has unrivaled looks, performance and build quality. Congrats, I am envious.

[eddie_roberts_jr]

I have a 1979 Glastron Carlson CVX 16 with a 100 hp Javelin and a small 3 blade cupped stainless prop that we take on a few cruises during the Summer. It's a lot of fun free skiing behind it but it would seriously challenge the driver in a slalom course.

[Stevie Boy]

How about this then, a young Guy turns up at Champions Lake from New York, he ski,s behind a outboard on a river with no slalom course, he goes off the dock 22 Off @ 32MPH and finishes at 4 Bouys 32 Off @ 36MPH, he had 18 Passes on the first set, disappeared for 45 minutes, then returned for another set 12 Passes, he was coming off the bouy giving it everything he had, practically horizontal with the water, but my o my he sure could turn that ski, I saw some of the best turns ever, good power to weight ratio, on top of that he was a really nice Guy.

He scored 4 Bouys 32 Off @36 MPH at the comp that weekend, the following week he was off to ski with Lucky Lowe, if he makes it onto the scene, he has the potential to shake the tree.

[wilecoyote]

I read pretty quick through the thread but no one seemed to mention anything about the pylon height required for an OB. Is it noticeable? I skied exclusively behind outboards of various stripes prior to joining the club and subsequently buying an old Supra, but in those days I was a total hack, so I can't compare. Most setups I skied behind were with the rope on a bracket above the motor or the old school pulley on the rope from handle to handle on the transom LOL.

[6balls]

@stevie boy I skied an outboard all the way through Mens I and part of Mens II at 36 only seeing inboards at tourneys. Was kind of a joke around the dock but I often ran into 35 off at 36.

Unlike the kid you mention...I didn't have a spectacular further upside!

[VONMAN]

My 1992 Ski Centurion Barefoot Warrior. I'll be retiring to Florida after skiing at a club in Michigan for the last 12 years. No more 50k inboards and Zero-off. Going back to the future. It was a great boat 23 years ago and still is.

 

[XR6Hurricane]

From a free skier who is an outboard fanatic since birth...I grew up with outboards and that is still what I own. I do most of my skiing now behind a friend's inboard and it's mainly a matter of what you're used to. If I take a week off from one boat and get behind the other, the first few cuts feel strange.

 

Don't shoot the messenger: The very best wake I ever skied over was a 1976 Crestliner 18' Muskie tri-hull with a 135 Johnson. 2nd place went to a 1985 Checkmate Sportfire with a 115 Merc. Every other outboard I've skied behind including my Rapid Craft was still well ahead of the best inboard in terms of wake size and softness, hands down. If you're finding the Stratos' wake to be large and hard, you may have a unique situation but for the most part a V-pad or modified V outboard should be a winner for slalom in open water at 22 off and longer and under say 32 mph.

 

I think the biggest advantage to an inboard for recreational use is it forces you to use better technique. It's the only way for the typical recreational goofball like myself to survive behind one.

[6balls]

@XR6Hurricane and @vonman (love that Barefoot Warrior!) at longer lines the outboard was the bomb over the inboards in the 80's and 90's. I never felt the inboards held a distinct edge until 32 off. At 15 and 22 the Centurion outboards...both the Barefoot Comp and the Falcon Barefoot...were better. At 28 off equivocal and at 32 off and in the inboards took over.

 

The Warrior and Falcon tracked fairly well, too. The Flighty and Sanger tracked ok as well, but had bow rise with each strong pull by the skier that was noticeable. There was no skier spray on any of these boats.

 

Back then the inboards were nicer in terms of the big platform...thankfully as a toe loop guy I could make the mini-platforms on the outboard work just fine. Perfect pass was a game changer for the inboards...and throttle/speed control was always tougher on an outboard...just not very precise. Tricking/wakeboarding on the outboard...man it's an active experience (I still have one and pull a lot of kneeboard/wakeboard) to keep it from deciding to plane and pick up 5 mph or bog back into the hole and lose 5 despite no throttle adjust. Helpful if she's loaded heavy with people, gear, or both.

 

Having said that...I can put 8 people in my outboard, along with 2 knee boards, 2 wake boards, a set of jump skis, 10 life vests, a barefoot boom, and a cooler without touching a dime of my floor space. She will still run 55 on the way home loaded. Alternatively, I could pull 6 footers at 40 mph, or fifteen 200 lb teenage boys on tubes. She looks cool, too. Works great for a public lake tow and does what I need her to do there...but wouldn't trade my Nautique in the buoys at this point!

 

If I had to get squeezed to one boat today...open bow tourney inboard. Might have to pry my Dad's Centurion from my cold, dead hands, though. If she ever is for sale, there may have to be a pre-screening application process to eligible buy.

 

 

 

[XR6Hurricane]

@6balls I used to have twin platforms on either side of the motor that came with the boat from the factory. They've been in the rafters in my garage since I had the transom rebuilt in 2007, partly because it's 16 more holes in the wood that you have to worry about getting completely sealed up. I've thought about putting them back on but I've never really missed them. I sit on the rear gunwale to put the ski on (rear toe strap so no problem there). Getting back into the boat is the bigger problem for some people. When I pull certain people, I bring a folding boarding ladder with. Unfortunately those people usually have just as much trouble getting in with the ladder...it's amazing. I keep meaning to jump in and climb the ladder myself to see what the problem is.

[ALPJr]

 

[Ryno]

@dihrdskir I found it by chance when I looked at another ski boat and they then referred me on to the guy selling the Barefooter. It was purely luck, as it hadn't been advertised yet and fortunately I was able to snap it up for a good price. The boat was actually being looked after by Pete O'Neil (one of the worlds best bare footers).

As you say the boat should last at least another 15 years - I love that there is no wood in the construction, so like most modern boats with the right care it should last a life time.

Pete O'Neil actually has his own Malibu Barefooter (of similar vintage) that has clocked up over 3000 hours and is onto its third outboard!

It's a real shame Malibu stopped making the hull and I'm bloody lucky to have one in the driveway.

[Ryno]

@6balls The throttle/speed control at low speeds is all down to the type of outboard you have on the back. My old Flighty (with an early Fuel Injected Merc) struggled to hold a set speed at anything below 15 kph and would often fall on and off the plane.

However the new boat has a direct injected Mercury Optimax, and that engine is amazing. I can now adjust and hold speeds below 15kph to the accuracy of around 0.1 kph... It has better control and response than an inboard!

[6balls]

@ryno cool, I love her but she's not getting a new engine!

@XR6Hurricane shut down the motor and turn it all the way toward the person getting in, have them step on the cavitation plate above the prop. We did that for years with out outboard Switzer boats growing up which had no platforms.