Baller mmosley899 Posted May 9, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 9, 2015 Dear Dave, boots don't set world records. Injury free water skiers Do! Mike's Overall Binding USA Water Ski Senior Judge Senior Driver Senior Tech Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jayski Posted May 9, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 9, 2015 Boots, skis, boats, ski sites, drivers, etc all contribute to WR's nice dig @ a competitor but a little inaccurate, I'm sure if some one set a record on your system you would be tooting the horn pretty hard... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted May 9, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted May 9, 2015 What ad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller webbdawg99 Posted May 9, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 9, 2015 It's the Indian, not the arrow. (or his shoes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted May 9, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted May 9, 2015 @MS .... This add. @mmosley899 you should run that sentence in an add and set it up so looks similar. Your sentence on one page...your boot on the other ...seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted May 11, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted May 11, 2015 I think that corrupts rhymes with rupture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ RichardDoane Posted May 12, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted May 12, 2015 @ms - co-rupture... is that when you blow both Achilles at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted May 12, 2015 Supporting Member Share Posted May 12, 2015 @richarddoane Damn that's clever but I'd feel a bit brutal if I marked that Awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller drewski32 Posted May 12, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 12, 2015 Dang, a lot of people seem to really not like these. I mean, I don't trust them either, but I've never skied on them. Anyone have any stories they wanna share about a bad experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller aupatking Posted May 12, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 12, 2015 @drewski32 I'm having connectivity issues. If the pictures don't come through I'll repost. Offside, what should have been an otf fall, actually not a bad one, did not release. pulled until it broke the talus. Same pair of boots broke my ski partners leg. Same situation, not exact same break, but same cause. We were told it was user setup error on his. When I did it we had set them up EXACTLY AS DIRECTED. When I expl that, Goode stopped responding to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller aupatking Posted May 12, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 12, 2015 @scotchipman I really appreciate the info. You're the first person to tell me they've had the same, in other boots. My Powerplate did release, maybe 100th of a second after the bone broke. I had actually been running the HO EXO system for about a year before I moved to a Goode ski to help me get off the tail (my bad habit, but that Goode just helped me stay in the right place). Either way, those Exo's may have been bulky, but the mechanism worked wonderfully for me. I'm Sure there were some bad injuries using those too, but I've personally seen one, experienced one, and talked to a bunch more with that same injury, running those Powershells. Dave makes phenomenally performing skis. I just don't agree those boots are, at all, safe. How many of the same injury has occurred in the same boots with the Gatormod? If the design needs to be modified for safety, the effing factory putting them out needs to be the one doing it. You wanna charge a BS price for it, put the money in R&D for safety. I think his safety money is buying a disclosure sticker and paying a lawyer. PS, that was May 25th of last year. I have another surgery scheduled for next Tuesday, the 18th. I'm Not terribly happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bishop8950 Posted May 12, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 12, 2015 A few statements that I think are objective and true: 1) I am not aware of any perfect data set or study that concludes on binding is safer than the other and skiers are left to choose based on the information they have. I doubt this is going to change anytime soon 2) Many top skiers swear by the Goode set up for both performance and safety. Other top skiers may say otherwise 3) You can get hurt in any set up and the only way to be truly safe is to stay on shore. If you do brave it on the water ski smart and avoid crashes. Sounds obvious but seriously some people crash way to often! 4) No matter what you use make sure its set up right and will release as intended. In the Powershell case, use properly installed fresh velcro and the right amount For my personal view (only one of many on BOS) having skied in a lot of set ups (double rubber, Fogman, dual lock single plate, Reflex) and broken my front ankle twice in Fogmans, I personally believe your front heal must be able to lift independent from everything else. In any single plate set up this cant happen. It can in double rubber or Stradas as long as neither are to tight. It can in a Reflex as long as the release is not to tight. OB4s look good for this as well. Even then, as @scotchipman said in falls where you compress into the ski (like stuffing the tip in your off side turn - my case 2x) it will be hard for anything to totally protect you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller aupatking Posted May 12, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 12, 2015 @bishop8950 and @scotchipman do either of you know if Goode has released a definitive "how much Velcro and where"? something possibly based of skier weight and speed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Killer Posted May 12, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 12, 2015 @scotchipman dont you rely on dual lock to release a plate from your ski, and cinch up your rs1's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skidawg Posted May 12, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 12, 2015 1. No binding is absolutely safe 2. Dual lock is definitely not safe, simply a matter of time before serious injury occurs. 3. Situational awareness is your best bet, know when to let go!!! Broken bones and Achilles ruptures are not worth a .25 bouy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BlueSki Posted May 12, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 12, 2015 @drewski32 asked... In 2005, I was wearing a set of Powershells when I tore the retinaculum across the front of my front foot. One of my ski buddies tore up his ankle too, but stayed with the Powershells. I tried EXOs when they came out (no injuries), tried Reflex (injury 2014), and am now on the OB4 System. Here is the father/son setup at our house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mmosley899 Posted May 12, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted May 12, 2015 Twenty two years on the OB4 style release system, skiing into 39off. Numerous crushing out the front falls, never a serious injury. The front heel can lift and release, and the rear heel can lift and release, both at a pressure that limits strain on each foot before the threshold of injury when properly set. The only fall and release I had last year was a crushing OTF @35off, the system worked as intended. Mike's Overall Binding USA Water Ski Senior Judge Senior Driver Senior Tech Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skidawg Posted May 12, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 12, 2015 Would love to try the OB4 system, but it is price inhibitive with several of us skiing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BlueSki Posted May 12, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 12, 2015 @skidawg, my thought on the cost was that yes, there is an upfront cost, but as my son's feet grow, I only need to buy new boots. This is an advantage over some, but not all systems. The other was that last year was a very expensive year for me to ride in the boat. I paid urgent care, multiple doctors until my deductible was met, the portable left-foot accelerator guy, Amazon for a hands free crutch, my physical therapist (before and after surgery), and even Walgreens so I could shower post-op using a shower seat. That is why my Vapor is green. When my son first tried the ski pictured, the only bindings I had for him were the rubber boot and RTP that came with his old ski. He fell across the wake and strained front foot, but no major injury. I considered myself lucky as I did not have all of those costs for him too... Although I had met my deductible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted May 12, 2015 Supporting Member Share Posted May 12, 2015 @skidawg OB4 is indeed very expensive. But if you believe, as I do, that it is fundamentally safer, then you just have to ask yourself "What is a season worth to me?" If you're already in shells, that's pretty much all it comes down to, since you can put your existing shells onto it. If you're currently in rubber, then you have a transition to make. I just got through that, and I'll admit it was uncomfortable at times, but worth it. And hopefully my "guide" that I've linked a few times can shorten the path for other folks like me. P.S.: After 35+ years in rubber boots, it's amusing that I already find myself looking at high wrap bindings and thinking they look so unsafe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skidawg Posted May 12, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 12, 2015 I've been in hard shells for years. I've looked at the ob4 system up close and I am not sure if I would feel the same level of connection to the ski as I do in my current set up, my original statement should have been-I would have to demo before putting up that much cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller lakeaustinskier Posted May 12, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 12, 2015 Can people tell me what kind of bindings they run with their OB4 system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted May 12, 2015 Supporting Member Share Posted May 12, 2015 Well given that the universe tends towards irony, I think we can all guess what just happened. (Don't worry, I didn't get seriously hurt.) I apparently put my springs back wrong after winter maintenance, with the front boot considerably too loose. This caused it to release right behind the boat, leading to quite a spectacular crash that I suspect will leave me sore for several days. So kids: DON'T DO THAT! Test the release tension. Duh. However, there is a sliver lining. I think I just did a pretty impressive live demonstration of the system's ability to handle a "one foot out" situation without further risk. My back foot ejected promptly (I don't have the video to know exactly when) and my ankles etc. took no impact whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted May 12, 2015 Supporting Member Share Posted May 12, 2015 @skidawg That's a fair point. Will be interesting to see how people who are used to other shell systems feel about the contact/control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted May 12, 2015 Supporting Member Share Posted May 12, 2015 Update: Misinterpreted my own marks in a REALLY dumb way. Now fixed and land-tested. Ready to go with confidence. But seriously be less dumb than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ozski Posted May 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 13, 2015 Than, I've seen mechanical release systems fail for different reasons so my personal choice is to avoid them and stick with the radar boots bolted to the ski. I've adapted to running them quite loose and I don't believe I'm skiing any worse for it. Release works just fine and for the record I've had at least 2 confirmed broken ankles in rubber boots. The Goode system has zero appeal for me.. I still think binding systems have a lot of evolution left in them. (And gloves but don't get me started) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted May 13, 2015 Supporting Member Share Posted May 13, 2015 @ozski Sensible viewpoint! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted May 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 13, 2015 @Than_Bogan well that's interesting.... @lakeaustinskier You can use any kind of shell you want. I use my Reflex shell. @mmosley899 uses a softer skate boot. I have seen HO Exo's, Strada/Vapor bindings, PowerShells, and some other hard shells. Pick your binding and mount it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted May 13, 2015 Supporting Member Share Posted May 13, 2015 @MattP Interesting indeed. In fact, back last year when I was configuring them I was joking about wanting to force a crash so I could see how they work. Who knew all I needed to do was set the front spring completely wrong and the back spring correctly and voila! Seriously, my confidence in the system's capability has grown: that rear foot got outta there in a hurry with no trauma. However, I now realize the risk lies mainly with ME screwing up the setup. That's probably good, but never underestimate the capacity for a "smart" person to do something unbelievably dumb! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mmosley899 Posted May 13, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted May 13, 2015 @MattP @lakeaustinskier i have used three different boot types this spring, and different rear boot setups also... Matt if you want that new boot, you have to come see me. Mike's Overall Binding USA Water Ski Senior Judge Senior Driver Senior Tech Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted May 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 13, 2015 @OB any binding on OB4??? D3 Leverage front and RTP?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mmosley899 Posted May 14, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted May 14, 2015 @6balls that is possible, but not recommended. Your foot has to stay in whatever boot you use. A partial release form a rubber boot might make the OB4 release not work, or worse if your foot comes out and the release does release you loose everything. Bindings don't float... Mike's Overall Binding USA Water Ski Senior Judge Senior Driver Senior Tech Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted May 14, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 14, 2015 @mmosley899 I like my front binding snug and I'm a toe loop guy. My only experience out of rubber high wrap and RTP was a strada which was comfy but felt like it was a "rock and a hard place" problem. Strap it tight like I want it for control and I'm not coming out in a fall. Strap it so I come out in a fall and it's too loose...who skis in that??? I know some top notch skiers who do but I don't understand how they compensate for the slop. No ankle b'ness til I got short...lucky I haven't fractured on 2 occasions since being a regular in the purple line and beyond...may be early but graze a buoy and ski hops and sticks. Body crush over the front at the ball while also rolling to boat-side with ski at high angle. Big ankle injury and black/blue nearly to my knee up the back of my leg with achilles slowest to recover. What kind of front to I need to run with RTP to make the release work? Will it prevent what I described above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mmosley899 Posted May 14, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted May 14, 2015 @6balls the OB4 system will prevent those types of problems, when the forces exceed the injury threshold, the release works! In all directions... If you like the Radar boots, they will work on our system by changing the laces to non-stretchy. I am waiting on a pair of HO Vmax boots to test on our system also. I think most of the ski companies are making a soft fit boot that may work. But you foot must stay in the boot. Mike's Overall Binding USA Water Ski Senior Judge Senior Driver Senior Tech Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mmosley899 Posted May 14, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted May 14, 2015 @OB I have your size and buckles are easy to change. I'm sticking with the orange ones for now, have them set up the way I like 'em. Mike's Overall Binding USA Water Ski Senior Judge Senior Driver Senior Tech Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ RichardDoane Posted May 14, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted May 14, 2015 @mmosley899 - so if I mounted my Vapor boots on an OB4 plate/system, I can safely over-tighten my laces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mmosley899 Posted May 14, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted May 14, 2015 @richarddoane yes, but the laces must changed to non-stretchy ones so that your foot will not come out of the boot. There are photos and instructions for mounting on our website and face book page. Mike's Overall Binding USA Water Ski Senior Judge Senior Driver Senior Tech Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJVDMZN Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 What I like about OB4 is that I can try my son's Mapple 6.0 or my wife's Senate using my own boots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mmosley899 Posted May 14, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted May 14, 2015 Yes, the boot plates are all interchangeable regardless of boot size. So you can move your boots to another ski with the OB4 System mounting plate. Or change to a different boot without moving the setup... Mike's Overall Binding USA Water Ski Senior Judge Senior Driver Senior Tech Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skinut Posted May 14, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 14, 2015 @mmosley899 -How do you move the bindings once they are mounted to the ski? Can you move them forward or backward with out moving the mounting plates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mmosley899 Posted May 14, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted May 14, 2015 @skinut the mounting plate moves forward and backward. And you can move the boot on the boot plate also... Mike's Overall Binding USA Water Ski Senior Judge Senior Driver Senior Tech Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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