Mid-loops, are they effective?

[skinut]

As the title states, do you think mid-loops are effective in training for the next line length. I have been running 32off and using a mid-loop between 32 and 35. I can run the pass at 33.5 but when I move to 35off it feels like a totally different world. So I'm wondering if I am wasting my time at 33.5off since I still seem to get no where at 35. Do I just need to spend more time at 35 vs working on my 33.5 length?

[Ilivetoski]

My thought process has always been that you won't get 33.5 in a tournament. You go straight to 35.

[Horton]

The mid loop is great for confidence. I like a 36.5 off loop a lot

[DavidP]

I like the mid loops to transition to the next line length and ran my first 36.5 on Friday. You can also slow the boat down a bit at 35 to mix things up. Remember, pro baseball players perfect their swings by hitting off a tee.

[303Skier]

I had a mid loop put in at 33.5 and used it once I think? I prefer slowing the boat down IMHO.

[buoyboy1]

I think mid loops are a much better use of ones time. I would rather keep getting to 4 ball on the mid loop than 1 or 2 ball while learning the next line length. I have never had much success slowing the boat down as it tends to mess with my timing and I tend to get slow and "in a hole" at the exit of the turn. Keep wearing out the mid loop at 33.5 and the 35's will start to come. Like @Horton says its great for confidence.

[Wish]

Well, sounds like you have the tweener looped rope and it is not helping that much. Could try increasing your speed at your opening pass (1mph) up through 32off (if consistant) then drop speed back to normal for 35off. You will feel like you have extra time. I think that's better then normal speed up to 35off and then slowing down.

[RichardDoane]

@horton - I had to disagree, as practicing a line length that doesn't really exist is a waste of valuable practice time and gas, better to slow the boat in rec mode if you feel the need, IMO

[gregy]

If one thing isn't working try something different. I'm far from any kind of expert but I can't see an in between loop being a waste time. But if its not working try something different. Slow boat speed a mile or 2. Go back a few loops and work on form. Maybe the ski setup needs some tweeks for shorter line length. Post videos on BOS see if someone has suggestions. Lots of options, one may be right for one person but not for another.

[Horton]

I do not like to slow the boat. Doing that screws with my timing too much. Running 36.5 is harder than 35 but not 38. It helps me run more 38s.

[popof]

I've been using it as a way to "ease" into my sets and I actually think it is a very valuable training tool. of course, for those who compete, as you get close to tournaments you might want to go back to "normal" lengths, but for those who don't or for those who are just really trying to get to the next line, IMO it is what makes more sense.

 

I must confess I don't get the "this is not a real line, you'd better slow the boat down" argument, as, IMO, one could answer "that's not a real speed, you might better shorten just a bit" ;) ? (No offense intended, sincerely)

 

Last year I used to tweak with the boat's speed between 32-33-34 mph, and was less consistant than this year, I now only ski 34mph, start longer (22 or even 15 off if i'm really tired), but consistently go 15 - 18.5 - 22 - 25 - 28 - 30.5off, and good days 32off.

 

The true difference with tweaking with the speed is, as others have said it, you keep the same rythm/timing.

 

Now for rope reviews, I've been using the masterline progressor, which is good but the mid loops seem to "undo" after a while as they are just pieces of rope "inserted" inside the initial rope, they come out after a while, I'll post a pic as soon as I can take one.

[mwetskier]

when ever it comes up i always wonder why no one mentions the ' best ' way to use a intermediate loop -you *skip* the regulation loop right before it. so if you have a 33.5 loop you go 22, 28, 33.5, 35. . . the mid loop is a little harder than the regular 32 loop but you have the mental advantage of not feeling gotta-make-it pressure since it doesn't count for anything. every one i ever bumped from 28 straight to 33.5 made the pass and then 35 is only a tiny 18 inches away. try it that way before you dismiss the idea completely.

[Stevie Boy]

1

[ALPJr]

I think the -30 loop is fun and it sounds cool 30off

[Razorskier1]

I think they can be fun, but running 36.5 off never felt much like 38 off to me.

[Wolfeie]

i usually go off the dock at 22 (34 mph) and run up the line to 35 on the normal loops. At the end of the set I may go back to 33.5 to run some passes. It has made my 32's better and my

35 starts better. The 33.5 loop is a lot of fun, run it 90% of the time and having fun is what is all about. Sometimes we get hung-up on buoy counts.

[MattP]

I have mid loops in my rope between 32/35 & 35/38. I'll be honest and say I have not used them once....

I know I would if I was getting more practice time on the water. I've only put the rope on 35 less than 5 times in practice this season but have gotten more shots at it in tournaments. My goal was to become more consistent at 32 this season and that has for sure happened and work on my mental side of the sport. That consistency has helped at 35 in tournaments but because I am not cutting to those shorter lines in practice frequently. I'm getting good looks at 3&4 in tournaments and practice so I am happy with that once I start getting through that pass again I think I will start using the mid loops more, but more than likely not close to a tournament.

 

I do think they will be a good training tool to help running buoys and getting confident as the rope gets shorter. I look forward to using them soon.

[Than_Bogan]

Anybody ever tried 11m? I'm not saying I can run -38 (11.25m) a lot, but it usually feels "sorta possible." -39 (10.75m) feels "clearly impossible." I feel like I might learn something about both of those line lengths with an occasional crack at 11m?

 

I am with the folks who find slowing the boat just feels really weird.

[popof]

There is another very interesting side to mid-loops that we have not discussed here:

 

They can come in very handy whenever you're pulling someone who is "mentally" struggling, over one given line length.

 

You can fool them into thinking they are still skiing at one length when you actually shortened it a little without telling them, and without them noticing it, and you wouldn't believe how much people perform when they don't know the rope is shorter ;)

 

We've all heard a story about a guy who mistakenly ran a line because the guy in the boat messed up and shortend it too much ;) well mid loops are kind of doing this intentionally :)

 

Obviously this also applies to "normal" loops, but then, the gap is bigger, they might notice it / feel it .

[Waternut]

I can maybe see the mid-loop being somewhat helpful after 35off as I keep hearing the jumps to 38 and 39.5off are big. However, I also felt like the jump to 32off and 35off were also a whole new world the first few times I tried them and eventually I just learned that I needed to quit having expectations on where I should be turning. Just manage the slack, set your ski's angle, and pull like crazy. When you get around the buoy later than you've ever been before and end up earlier than you've ever been before to the next buoy, you just learned a whole lot more than you ever would've with a mid-loop.

 

I don't really understand how slowing the boat down 30-40rpms messes with timing unless you always turn at the same point regardless of all other things. The whole pass is time management. Whether you're a little early, little late, little fast, little narrow, little bit of slack, etc...all affect your timing.

 

Bottom line though....if it works for you, who cares. However, I would strongly discourage a mid-loop after 15off, 22off, and 28off as all of those should come pretty quick if your technique is good. If you're not picking up those passes in a reasonable amount of time, you should probably be focusing on your technique and not on some line length that doesn't exist.

[2tracmind]

From a training perspective does it not make sense to have variables that challenge you ? Changing speed, both faster and slower,and line length can improve your ability to adapt. Do we go home and not train with a head wind and tail wind ? PP AND Zero make the speed perfect but is it limiting our ability to adjust to variables ? When coaching other sports I have inserted variables to make athletes adapt. IMHO , if I were a waterski coach I would often throw variables in to train the athlete to adapt.

[Wish]

I take pride in running around and skiing different sites, drivers, boats, cruise control systems and more. I absolutely believe it makes me a better skier especially in tournaments. So I'm taking my own advice. Last 2 sets I've been skiing 35mph. Just 28s and 32s. Have not missed a pass but still finding the rythm and will probably try it at 35 off next time as long as I can run the 32 with reasonable ease. Once 35 is figured out, 38 off will be put back to 34mph. The theroy is that things happen faster at higher speeds, obviously, and has forced me to adapt. Once at 38 off and back down to 34mph, a pass that is inherently a much faster feel then 35@34, will feel more comfortable as my system has adapted to things happening quicker. Or it all could be a total bust and a waist of time. But the Italian 41 off skier I'm skiing with for the next 3 weeks does not think its a waist of time. And he kills 38 and runs 39 on a Monza with Whileys. Yes he is the Italian version of @MS as far as the Monza obsession goes. Vastly different after that.

[Horton]

@wish that sounds good and I know it works for a lot of skiers but I just don't know how that does not screw up your gate timing

[Wish]

@Horton we will see. That was the hiccup with the initial attempts. This is an experiment for me. I can see the validity in it. Far more then slowing the boat below 34. And keep in mind I ski behind the oldest PP known to man. And then go ski behind the latest ZO when I get to a tournament. Adapting quickly to what I'm being pulled by has become somewhat second nature....especially gates.

[Horton]

@Wish have you tried doing shots of tequila after every pass?

[Wish]

Hmmm.... not sure how to respond to that. I can definitively say that the smell of it makes me gag.... Not gonna confirm nor deny that college may have played a part in the disliking of that fire water.

[Horton]

@Wish i am suggesting that multiple cruse systems & multiple speeds & multiple line lengths would drive me to drink.

[Horton]

(More)

[Wish]

This from a guy that changes skis more often then most change pants....

 

It's a buy in of sorts to what @2tracmind is saying. I really cannot say I'd be a better skier utilizing the same thing all the time. Somewhat boring. I think bordom would drive me to drink (more) and possibly get used to tequila again.

[Horton]

Haaa

[MillerTime38]

I like a 16.08 and actual line lengths.

 

If you are struggling on a line length, get someone in the boat to watch and make suggestions. This is the most important part, LISTEN TO THEIR SUGGESTIONS. Then go back a line length or two and try to correct the errors. You are not going to get any better by using mid loops or going faster because you are not doing anything to change your technique, slowing the boat down may help because it is giving you more time to think and react but make sure you are trying to correct your technique and not just scrapping out the passes or it will all be a waste of time

 

 

[jhughes]

@MillerTime38 you hit the nail on the head with this. In previous years I've tried everything else besides restructuring my own ego. I tried the spectra sections, the half loops, odd mid-speeds, and everything in between. Before I took a hard look at my own ego and built up a mental game there was no chance of progress, just spinning my wheels for years. This year has been a game changer for me as a result, easily up a full pass from last year with a mental game and approach that will support future growth vs. getting in my own way.