Reflex Supershells

[webbdawg99]

Anyone know anything about this? I won't be at Nationals until tomorrow.

 

[303Skier]

Any pictures surface yet??

[Horton]

I expect a press release today. Reflex told me it is a major upgrade

[Horton]

 

[Andre]

Double horseshoes,micro adjustements,heel block...Looks good too!

[Ilivetoski]

How much and do I need a new plate? It looks like something you slide under an existing plate for the front horseshoe

[Deanoski]

wow nice looking boot,flat toe and many more new features

 

cant wait to try one!!

[MattP]

@Ilivetoski The plate on the bottom is the reflex bond plate. It is used on their skis without inserts. I would say it looks like a different plate with how the two horse shoes line up. I'm sure you could drill an existing plate...

 

Looks like Reflex is realizing that everyone was using bondo to achieve what heal piece does.

 

I will be taking a look at Nationals tomorrow. I am happy with the release system I use but new boots are always fun to try out.

[jayski]

The heel block was needed, lots of guys fabricated their own out of epoxies and such

 

@Ilivetoski the bottom plate is the "Reflex Bondplate" , no inserts you use that instead

[Deanoski]

@MattP please take some pic of the shell with the liner out would love to see the lower shell design!

[MattP]

@Deanoski will do.

[Nando]

It's tempting just for the improved buckles...

[webbdawg99]

Will this new shell work on the current single toe loop set up?

[Ilivetoski]

@Nando my buddy has those on his reflex. He said they're aftermarket you can get for about $50. I'm not sure where to get them

[mmosley899]

@webbdawg99 those are the same shells that OB4 has been using since last year, with buckles upgraded. The toe is a different shape from the old style shells.

@Nando the buckles are available from m2 inc.

[davemac]

I wonder if the heel block can be retrofit into the current system...

[Than_Bogan]

@mmosley899 I thought that shape looked familiar... Cute paintjob, but I think I'm more an all-black kinda guy anyhow.

 

Looks like we're standardizing on low cuff and integrated heal lift as the way to go as well.

 

To me, the fundamental delta is the omnidirectional release, which is why I'm so vocal in my support of the OB4 system.

 

But no matter my personal preferences, it makes me happy that so much waterski tech is coming out these days!!

[DefectiveDave]

@davemac,

 

I was just thinking that same thing.

[skinut]

What is the heel block for?

[Jordan]

The heel block is for a more positive connection to the ski. The double toe horseshoes are something Andy Mapple has had on his Reflex set-up for some time.

[pregom]

Newbie question. Are these bindings useful (necessary?) only for advanced skiers who are chasing buoys at amazingly short rope lengths, or also for people like me who are just starting to slalom with full length rope or 15 off at 30 mph and making 2-3 balls so far? I'm currently using some old plain vanilla equipment from a local ski club I joined and I'm thinking of investing in my first real set of skis and bindings. As I push myself harder, I'm scared of getting hurt and these bindings look so similar to what I would use on snow skis, even at a beginner level. What do you guys think? Saving your ankles and knees seem cheaper than the price of these bindings...

[Than_Bogan]

@pregom I think that's a great question, but unfortunately it doesn't have a clear answer. Here are some thoughts:

 

In terms of saving your knees and ankles, a properly set up Reflex binding is usually safer than "plain vanilla" equipment, by which I assume you mean a highwrap rubber binding. In my opinion, a properly set up OB4 system is even safer, because it can release in all 6 degrees of freedom (3 directions and 3 rotations).

 

The only thing that prevents me from a strong recommendation of these systems to a beginning slalomer, is the transfer of responsibility. A rubber boot cannot be set up at all, so it cannot be set up wrong. It nearly never releases when you don't want it to, and it sometimes releases when you do want it to.

 

Releasable shell systems have a tension setting. The awesome news is you can now control your release characteristics. The less awesome news is, now you HAVE to. If your tension setting is way off in either direction, you're actually less safe than a simple rubber boot. In addition, setting up and maintaining a shell release system is a little more effort than a simple rubber boot.

 

So gauge your goals and personality. If safety is important to you and you're willing to take on more responsibility for achieving it, then go buy yourself an OB4 system (or a Reflex if you insist...). If that's not you, then just make sure your rubber boots have the right fit and don't over-tighten them. Waterskiing is not THAT dangerous in the end, so we're not talking life-or-death decision here!

 

On that note, make sure your head physically cannot get into your handle triangle -- there are many means to block it including simple duct tape. Although extremely improbable, that is the one place where your life is at risk when skiing.

[EFW]

An orthopedic surgeons dream come true!

[Than_Bogan]

@EFW Not sure I'm following. Do you see something newly unsafe about this Reflex system, or have a concern about the entire concept, or something else?

[Ilivetoski]

I haven't had any problems releasing from the side on my reflex, but I feel like that 2nd horseshoe can completely keep that from happening.

[Nick Sullivan]

I have pre-released from my front boot coming out of the horseshoe several times. I'll take the second horseshoe any day. I saw this first on Andy Mapple's ski.

[EFW]

I am NOT trying to start an argument. I mean come on - now we have two horseshoes. I can just imagine stuffing the tip in an offside turn. I'm quite sure that you will see A performance improvement. But at what cost for safety? I know we have all debated this but not for all the tea in China willI put my feet in those. NFW!!. All we do here is share opinions. It's the same thing with the 3m interlock. It was never designed to release! !!!!.

I have got to have two releases on my feet. It's simply flies in the face of common sense. Not that any of us have any common sense. Please don't start badmouthing me it wasn't my intention. I simply see those as unsafe. Nothing you say or tell me will change my mind.

[jayski]

@EFW I have "stuffed the tip" more than once with reflex and always released, unlike dual lock

[Ilivetoski]

@EFW that is not what releases the boot. It's the release mechanism in the back.

[Than_Bogan]

@EFW Well, we have such poor data that argument and speculation are about all we have. So I'm always very interested in WHY anyone has reached certain conclusions about binding safety. Whether I agree or disagree, anything that resembles a good reason can make me smarter on the issue. So I for one would be quite interested in details on your viewpoint.

 

Feel free to send PM if tired of public debate.

[KcSwerver]

last thing I want with my reflex is to have the toe pop out of the horse shoe, after all it's there to keep us IN. If Mapple does it like this, why shouldn't we.

[Horton]

Hard Shells (Reflex – OB4 –Goode - FM ) are safer if you have the knowledge to set them up and wisdom to maintain them correctly. If you are not an advanced skier and do not ski with advanced skiers- with this knowledge and wisdom - these bindings may be unsafe.

 

Hybrid bindings like the Radar Vapor represent the same problem as hardshells. If you wear Vapor boots with the top lace as tight as possible you are in an un-releasable binding. If you run the laces loose enough so you can get your foot out Vapor boots are very safe.

 

The great thing about most rubber bindings is that there is no setting. When you take your foot in and out you know just how much force it takes to get out. That does not mean that you cannot break your leg in rubber but it is hard to not know how tight they are. If your rubber bindings have a lace and you have to loosen it to get your foot out you are going to get as hurt as you would in any other binding

[Skiwoodgate]

I am a believer that no binding system is completely ‘safe’ and you accept you are at a certain level of risk of injury by putting ‘the’ binding on your foot. The level of risk you put yourself at is dependant upon many factors including your goals, your experience, maintenance of the equipment even if you use double boots or RTP and what combination of such.

 

All the binding systems are good, but none of them are perfect. What is right for you may not be right for your mate, try some things out and go with whatever you think feels best and will be best suited to achieve your goals.

 

As someone who ruptured his Achilles in a slalom crash this spring using a reflex binding, I still recomend the reflex binding option, and I think there is a lot to be said for that...

[brody]

I am generally a 35 off skier with the odd shot at 38. I had a really bad out the front crash this week on an older Reflex system. I hit my face in the ski but the binding released no problem avoiding a bad Achilles tear. I love the system and the safety of it

[davemac]

I agree 100% w/ Brody (although I'm not the level skier he is). I've been pleased w/ the release of my Reflex. Last month, first day of vaca, got in a bad postion, lean lock and forward over 2nd wake. Ended in a bad.... actually a very bad and violent, OTF. Reflex released as expected like a champ. Unfortunately my face smashed into the horseshoe on the ski...fortunately just below my nose. Any higher or lower and my nose or teeth would have been crushed.

Almost four weeks later, still haven't got full feeling back in front teeth. I'll take a smashed face over an achilles injury

any day.

 

(gratuitous picture of the beginning of a much larger bruise that filled the inside my mouth and gum)....

 

[pregom]

@Than_Bogan, the plain vanilla (and old) equipment I've been using at my club so far is an HO CDX-1 with non-adjustable HO Pro-Wraps. It's a struggle to get it on, but my foot has come off in a couple of occasions. I'm a real beginner (3 bouys, 15 off at 29 mph so far). @Horton, if I understand correctly what you say, if I were to step up to say a Radar Senate with Vector bindings (that is, a modern era ski) I would not necessarily be safer than now if the laces are too tight. It seems I can leave Reflex or OB4 or any of these releaseable systems to amazing experts like you guys. Something to aspire to! :)

[texas_slalom_trick]

There supper sick. Saw them at nationals.

[Deanoski]

Has anyone skied the new boot???

[MattP]

@Deanoski I head they do not have all the parts in stock yet...

[Milford]

My front powershell malfunctioned at Nationals, where one of the plastic tabs than runs underneath the upper cuff popped out on every pass, causing a locked out position. Not sure why it happened, but motivated me to look at other options. Purchased a front boot only and replaced the Goode boot on my system. Still using Velcro, but now have the new Supershell up front. 3 sets on it and am loving it. Very comfortable and allows the ski to get out in front better than what I was on.

[mmosley899]

@Deanoski I have skied those shells on the OB4 System, as has Matt, those are the boots I have used most of the season, just a different color.

[Fehlindra]

Hi guys whats the difference between the carbon plate and the G-10 (performance vise) feeling and advantages/dis. only seen some videos with the carbon that seems to raise from the ski a lot in the front maybe the g-10 are stiffer ? (+/-) second question they said the supershell will be available for shipping end of aug does that mean that dealers gonna have them swell so its possible to test the shell with liners before ordering.

[Fehlindra]

i found alot of answer in this vid about reflex