Help me teach my 12 year old

[daryl]

Hello all, I'm looking for advice on how to coach my 12 year old in the slalom course. (and from where we live - I'm likely the best coach he is going to get (sucks for him)

 

His details:

He is LLF, 108lbs, running on a Total Radar Awesomeness ski.

 

Running the mini course with ease at 40km/h

 

My details:

I'm a hacker/slasher - get into 28off at 34 sometimes (ran 28 a couple). I read all kinds of things (long time lurker on BOS) and I'm always trying to get better. I just want MORE for him!

 

My thought process for teaching him so far is this:

 

stand balanced on the ski

practice some wake crossing drills like Seth's video, initiating with the hips.

practice some pull out type things

 

Just looking for some solid simple advice on what to tell him next.

 

I have him shadowing the full course but he loses a little interest because he just doesn't have success there yet.

 

So, I need a way to show him progression without frustrating the heck out of him!

 

I have lots of ideas - just looking for some feedback.

 

And YES - maybe I need to get some video up somewhere......

[boarditup]

Green buoys on bricks that you move out toward the Red turn buoys. Start 13-feet in from the Reds (or 15-feet, whatever). When he masters the distance, move the buoy a couple of feet outboard. Make a big deal about moving the buoys. The key is to have the kid successful in his mind and fully engaged. INT rules have 1/2 bouy for the Green balls and 1 buoy for the reds. Total up the score. It works to keep the kids engaged while learning the course and developing the strength to make it through.

 

Finally, don't let the kid get frustrated or feel pushed. This is supposed to be fun. Keep it fun and they will beg to go skiing.

[Stevie Boy]

Best thing you could do for your son, is take him to a well respected coach/school if you have one in the area, Basics are what he needs, this is going to sound a bit harsh, but he is going to listen more to a good coach, than yourself, that way he feels no pressure, and the information is coming from somebody who knows how to get the best from him, trust me, I wish I had good basic training when I was younger, as soon as you see a skier come up out of the water, you can immediately see who has been coached correctly and who is self taught, when you see stylish good skiers they have been coached the correct technique by people with knowledge from an early age.

Do not let him become a Hacker/Slasher and he will thank you forever. Good Luck, I hope he becomes an awesome skier.

[Jordan]

One great thing about taking your son to a lesson, is that you can pick up some of the key points. For example, if the coach were to talk about the pull, for example....later when you see that your son needs to focus on his stack....you can say "remember what the coach told you" , ie hips to handle....

 

It will be more effective than just you telling him over and over.

[Texas6]

40kph is basically 25mph. I would try to slow him down enough to give him time to run a few buoys in the big course. Let him experience some success. If he can easily run the mini course at 25mph, he could surely run a few buoys at 21-23 which should make him smile and properly start the addiction

[Jordan]

One other thought:

 

The other day I could hear my neighbour "teaching" beginner two ski to a little kid. I have never heard more instructions shouted in my life. All of us, can only think of one, maybe two instructions at a time.....less is more.

 

You can't fix everything at once...so keep it fun!

[Chef23]

A couple of thoughts on the mini course start shortening the rope until he is running it at 32 off. That will start to get him thinking about angle through the wakes.

 

Second let him start trying the big course. Don't use the gates have him pull out super early for 1 ball then pull as hard as he can to try to get to two ball. If he gets to 2 ball have him turn for 3 ball. Make sure to tell him to pretend that 2 ball is 20 feet earlier than it is he doesn't want to pull right to 2 ball he will never get there. If he doesn't get to 2 ball have him stay on that side of the course and go around 4 ball and try for 5.

 

Another option is to have him start at 1 ball, shadow 3-5 and try to get around 6 ball. Once he does that he can ski 1 ball shadow 2, round 3 shadow 4 round 5 etc. I didn't do that with my son I followed the above path

 

I would slow the boat down for either option to 34 kph. He may sink a little and get some spray in his face but you want him going as slow as he can and still get support from the ski.

 

For kids starting out you need to emphasize that they need to pull through both wakes not pull to the first wake, pull behind the boat then pull after the second wake.

 

I have seen that it tends to click suddenly for kids. They will go from struggling to getting to 2 ball to running full passes in one set. When they were running slow speeds I tended to speed them up every time they made a pass. This had the benefit of making the slower passes easier. I did 1 mph increments until they could run 4 passes then went to the regular speed jumps.

 

Have fun with it.

[BrennanKMN]

This:

http://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/5748/leverage-position-a-massive-treatise-for-15-offers

 

Success now at and short line is fully dependent on good body position. Teach him the proper way from the start and he will be better then most of us by the time he is 20

[Chef23]

The article @BrennanKMN linked to is excellent. For kids I think there are a couple of simple thoughts in there that help. Think about having weight evenly balanced between their feet on the ski, lean shoulders away from the boat, keep your arms long with hands as close to the body as possible. This position generally will result in the ski being on edge which will help them cut through the wake.

 

Try to keep your advice to the kids as simple as possible. When we were at Coble's when my son was young we had just been go cart driving and April told my son to be a go cart behind the boat. That image helped improve my son's effort in the work zone from white water to white water.

[skibumsam]

Open water skiing is one thing that seems to help me, though I can not actually argue this because I rarely see a course. Maybe focusing on one or two things in his technique outside of the course could eliminate the feeling of success vs. failure in relation to bouy count. Could also help progress technique more quickly due to the increased number of consecutive turns made outside a course.

[Stevie Boy]

Open Water Skiing is a great thing to do, it teaches you about your body and your ski, or though our lake is difficult because it is small, recently a Pro actually got me to free ski, and immediately it found a weak spot, without the bouys I could not turn my onside properly ,with some free skiing it improved a lot in a very short space of time.

[daryl]

you guys are awesome - keep the ideas coming - sounds like I'm going down the right path. Never thought of shortening in the mini course - or actually having a set of buoys that I move out. (and make a big deal about it) - those are great ideas.

 

heading to ski now - my plan will be to run a couple of slow passes and catch some video!

[Than_Bogan]

I do like my article, but that seems like WAY too much information for most kids. Just find a few basics to show and if someday they become obsessed then maybe bust out articles like mine.

[ToddL]

My son loved skiing the mini course at -22. No slack rope hits. He progressed quite well. We never shortened to -28, but I suspect he would have run that, too.

 

When learning the full course, it is critical that your youth skier use a youth line vs. an adult rope. When first learning the full course, the skier is likely to pull too long outbound and generate down-course speed and slack rope. Heck, even if the skier is doing well, if they are light, they will have slack out of the turns. If that rope gets into the water before going tight, there is a risk of fall and possible injury. Nothing kills a young skier's passion to improve like getting hurt and becoming scared. The youth lines available through InTow or Masterline will help reduce the chance of slack and rope in the water (both are advertisers on BOS).

 

http://www.jlbmfg.com/InTowRopes.html

http://www.masterlineusa.com/collections/ropes/products/12m-youth-mainline-designed-for-g1-and-b1-skiers

http://www.masterlineusa.com/collections/ropes/products/10-75m-youth-mid-mainline-8mm-line-designed-for-b2-g2-skiers

[Chef23]

@ToddL I forgot about the youth line that is a must have.

[daryl]

thanks for the ideas everyone. Skied last night, kid did well, we ran some slow passes - 21 ish and 23 ish Mph and he had noticeable trouble navigating through the massive wake we had. But he did ok. He could get around a few here and there on the full course (at 15 off), I think he did 1-2 a couple of times, so he might have rounded 1-2, splash 3-4-5, around 6. (I'll have to check the video to see exactly).

 

I think @Chef23 is describing where I'm at to a "T" in his first post.

 

I shot some video (it is crappy) - but nevertheless - I'll endeavor to post it soon.

 

my observations so far are likely this

 

I should probably add rope? All his riding has been at 15off - And go full line - just haven't gotten around to it. We were mostly free skiing and in the mini course and just having fun so it didn't seem important a month ago. What do you all think?

 

We talked lots about proper position and getting his hands closer to him and the handle low. Standing tall on his ski. Hips up, don't let your hips fall behind.

 

My next plan is to just get out and do some free skiing at the lake and try and work on his balance and handle position. Likely back to town and hit the course again on Sunday. Have a good weekend all!

[ToddL]

I prefer -15 for kids and to just push through it. LL means more opportunity for slack and rope in the water.

 

Conversely, if you kiddo learns how to control the handle, manage outbound direction & speed and thus keep LL tight at slow speeds, he will have an excellent start when it becomes important at short lines later on.

[Texas6]

I started my son at -15 also and don't think he's ever run longline. +1 on the youth rope, it really helps a lot. Forget about the gates, slow him down as much as you can without him pushing too much water and sinking. My 12 year old is 100lbs and would have no trouble at 23, possibly even 21 but he's progressed enough that we never had to try it. Remember to make it a fun time with you and him more than anything else

[WBLskier]

Here are my thoughts. I have a 9 year old girl who is skiing the course. I too am a bad coach and not that great a skier and I have looked to this forum for help. Here are my tips in no particular order:

 

FWIW, my daughter is running 25mph long line now, but 10 weeks ago she was struggling at 17mph, so they can learn really fast.

 

1. Use a full line (15 off is harder for them) and the confidence they gain by getting all 6 regardless of the speed/length is huge.

2. Buy a kids weight rope...it doesn't drag on the wake and seems to help with slack.

3. Get him to work on making one smooth hard pull all the way through the wakes...they can actually cut right through the huge wakes without getting thrown off by them...they just need the confidence and practice to do it. This seems like the single biggest thing to me. the turns come on their own. I have my daughter stand in the back of the boat with the handle attached the pylon and practice leaning against it in a stacked position. Then I send her off to ski and tell her to feel the same way on the water. It seems to really help if she did it right before she steps into the lake.

4. Get him skiing with another kid who can run the course a little better than him. We ski with kids of similar ages and as soon as one kid pulls off a pb the others are always quick to follow (within a couple sets generally)...it helps them realize what is possible.

5. Keep it fun at all cost. It is great to see them excel, which they do so quickly, but it is easy for them to start to think a good day is a good buoy count rather than just having fun skiing.

6. Free skiing occasionally can really help to work on technique.

7. Buy good equipment. I had my daughter on my old ski until this year when I bought her a new one. The new ones are just better than the old ones.

 

Good luck. Hope it helps.

[ToddL]

FYI - $45 Youth Line

http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?endless=summer&topic=Search&category=Jr_Equip&postid=33661

http://www.ski-it-again.com/photos/sia33661img0.jpg

[daryl]

@WBLskier I have a 9 year old daughter too. She is super into it, running two skis, just starting to slalom a little. And all she wants to do is try and run buoys. I have my work cut out for me!

[WBLskier]

daryl---pretty great, isn't it!

[Texas6]

+1 on a decent ski. It can be longer than it needs to be at their age and works great at the slower speeds. My sons first set on his Radar Awesomeness was a 6 ball improvement. Granted he was running 25 at the time but he was noticeably more confident on it

[Chef23]

@darly if your son got to 2 ball I wouldn't add rope. My kids skied long line but then made a transition. If he got to 2 ball he probably isn't that far from running a full pass.

[gsm_peter]

+ on kid friends.

++ on several friends.

+++ on also girls friends.

+++++ on ski camp for kids.

 

Trick skiing improve sl result and is really fun.

Skiing 2 behind the boat.

Spray games.

 

Best luck!

[daryl]

alright, video time... (sure hope this is how to embed video)

 

and a couple of observations/clarifications:

 

When I said mini-course above - I didn't mean a mini-course with buoys 10' inside of the full course - I was actually driving down the side of the course, so the entire width would only be 33 feet (or whatever the math is). I should have been more clear - saying mini-course doesn't paint the correct picture.

 

During the set, we talked about stacking and handle position after each pass. Pass 4 (maybe one of his better passes) is where he said to me "I was really trying to keep the handle lower".

 

We have been talking about pulling through both wakes, he is rounding 1-2 sometimes, not every time.

 

The rope is definitely in the water at times.

 

A small point about the course - 5 ball (or 2 ball) is slightly submerged, and really difficult to see in the video (it is difficult to see skiing to). I need to adjust that thing.

 

I posted 5 of his passes - the rest were terrible video by me.....

 

We ski where there is approximately a 1mph current. And we are using PerfectPass in RPM mode because I didn't install a paddlewheel (perfectpass uses the paddlewheel below 40 km/h) So all speeds are ~23mph - I likely played with the speed from pass to pass a little is all i'm saying. I'm not fortunate enough to have a nice new ZO boat :smiley:

 

[gregy]

His feet seem a little far apart. I've always liked my toes touching the back of my front boot back from when I was younger than your son.

[Texas6]

I'm not sure if those passes are in chronological order, but there is a lot of improvement between pass 1 and pass 4/5. Like MANY if not all newcomers, he skis in what I refer to as the "safety position," wherein he crouches over a bit as if he's ready to absorb the impact of a future fall. Time on the water will improve confidence a lot in that department, but encourage him to stand tall and straight. Even if you are going straight down the lake, have him stand up nice and tall. Then work on having him maintain that body position while going across the wakes.

[Intheday]

I think he might benefit from one of the drills where you try to stay outside several of the boys on the same side it might make him stand taller and learn what moving your weight on the ski does.

[skihard]

His body positioning if improved will help him a ton. Try to work on getting him standing taller with his hips up over his feet. If he can stay aligned this will help him to not bend so much at the waist when he is hitting the wakes.

 

My daughter is currently going through the exact struggle. She may be a bit better than your son however their issues are the same. With the better alignment there will be less bending at the waist which will mean less out the front crashes, better handle control, and of course being able to maintain better angle across the wakes.

 

Like many above have said don't overwhelm him with too much info because it gets them lost. Practice good stack on shore or in back of boat and never forget - it's all about fun for them. If they like it they will work harder to get better!

 

Good luck!