Effect of tower on boat

[AndersonSkiTeam]

So, I have a 2001 Response lx with walkover open bow, wedge, and tower. Often have family of 6 in the boat with a fair bit of gear. I in general really like my wake and think it is smaller than other Malibu Lxi's I have been in, and like it better at longer lengths than the pre 2014 prostars. We usually run 28-34mph for me and the kids and 15-28 off is where my experience on these boats. My friend just bought a 05 Nautique 196 and its wake is considerably nicer (smaller and non existent at 28off with no trough). Is the 196 just that much better or does my tower and extra weight make that much of a difference. I know water displacement makes a big difference as I know my wake is much nicer with 1/4 tank of gas, no kids, and no gear than loaded up. Does a tower make that much difference on boat wakes? I could take my tower off and compare but I am far to lazy for that, it is easer to just ask fellow ballers.

[BrennanKMN]

6 people will make a hell of a wake in some of these boats. A tower is the least of your contributing factors IMO.

[pgmoore]

The fact is, ski boats make better wakes with less weight in the boat. So anything you can do to reduce weight is really useful. Leaving family members behind sounds like a bad plan. So if you aren't really using the tower, I would remove it for sure. Every little bit helps.

[baja]

The weight of the tower is essentially the only measurable effect. I have one on a 1994 Prostar 205. The tower weight is no more than 100 pounds since I remember carrying it with my wife. The weight of a tower is distributed across gunnels of the boat and approximately centered over the pylon. Your extra crew members are the bigger variable. But Family fun time on the boat is worth the extra weight.

[AndersonSkiTeam]

I think I am just bothered. The wake on the 196 was a thing of beauty. That being said with my Malibu I can fit all the kids and gear on public water, wakeboard and surf with the wedge down which I don't think is possible in the 196. But the wake was so nice. I think I just have a serious case of wake envy now. I am a big proponent that life is filled with trade-off's and you can't have everything. This is one of those trade offs.

[The_MS]

Towers suck. Do the tower rails get in the way of the rope at -38 or shorter on the LX? We had an 03 LXI with a tower and it bent the rope at -38.

[AndersonSkiTeam]

For me 38 is a length I dream about so can't say for sure. That being said the Extreme Tower I have is much further forward than the Illusion tower they put on some. I have hit the side of an Illusion tower at lengths of 22 off.

[TallSkinnyGuy]

My boat has a tower and the back feet are forward of the pylon a few inches, so I figure adding about 100 lbs forward of the pylon is not going to hurt my wake and may even help it. I could be wrong as I've never skied it without the tower. However, I have come to appreciate my tower for enabling us to get stuff off the floor by using ski and wakeboard racks attached to the tower. A lot of value in that when we spend a full day out on a public lake.

[Texas6]

@MS - the TXi tower won't bend the rope as it's barely behind the windshield - non-issue in my opinion and makes for a more versatile boat

 

[foxriverat]

@AndersonSkiTeam The wake on your Malibu is a thing of beauty. I learned the course last year behind an 02 response lx 28 mph 15 off. It doesnt get much better. Even at slow speeds. We only have 2 in the boat and the skier. Back seat out and Wedge completely taken off. Also ski behind 03 Malibu LXI and the response wake is slightly smaller

[thager]

@MS Tower didn't matter. You always had plenty of slack!! :smiley:

[ozski]

I know this is a personal thing but i seriously dislike big towers on tournament boats. They have their place but not sitting on top of a 200 or TXi please.

[Texas6]

I understand that perspective, that is also my preference and a whole lot easier to cover. But when you look at trying to make a tourney boat more versatile, it is a pleasant addition. Especially on a TXi that has a wedge.

[Bookm_dano]

Ok....Slalom definitely comes first and I don't want to give up any wake quality to make the boat more versatile. However, it had a tower on it when I bought it and I kinda sorta like it. As others mentioned, it provides some off deck storage; it also mounts a nice Bimini that's high enough to stand under...probably most significant is that my wife likes to have the secure hand holds it provided while climbing in and out of boat, particularly when docked in rough conditions. Next boat will likely have tower also....she gets to help choose the boat...and she gets up at 5:00 am to drive it for me.

[ISP6ball]

@Texas6 that Responses is beautiful. I'm a CC guy usually, but that boat is sharp!

If you're going to have a tower at least put some speakers on it so the skier can jam! :-)

[Chef23]

I have an 02 LX and ski behind 196s with other people on our lake and find the wakes to not be substantially different. If you are comparing your boat with a tower and 6 people in it to the 196 with a driver and two passengers your wake is going to be much bigger.

 

Recently I took my son out to show some people how the course is skied and we had 6 people in the boat. When my so was done he commented on how big the wake was. It is the people and the weight not the hull. The tower is probably worth a couple of passengers.

[escmanaze]

I love the TSC hull as much as the next guy, but tower, wedge, and 6 passengers is not a fair comparison to the empty 196.

 

However, your tower is probably about 150 pounds, so it's probably only worth one person. For all the advantages it brings, I would be keeping it around if you are on open water with lots of people. Just start inviting fewer friends if you want good wakes ;)

[inland]

I have a tower on my '06 LXi and one of my ski buds has an '05 LXi. You can notice the difference in the wake with just the tower. I'm taking mine off next season and will only use it if we take the boat to a large public lake in the northern part of the state with the family. For our normal usage, it's not necessary.

[Texas6]

@ISP6ball, unfortunately not my boat but I agree it's pretty. That one is promo out of Mississippi that I had inquired about buying. It happened to be up on my desktop when this thread started so I used it as an example:). Never heard back so he's either at Nationals or somebody else got her

[The_MS]

Not much shade protection with the bimini that high.

Were they using any towered boats at Nats this year?

[DW]

@AndersonSkiTeam: the simple answer is yes, the added weight on that hull does make a difference. I have same hull & removing weight at the CG did improve the wake, 100# is noticeable. On that hull, weight at the transom is much more significant on a #/effect criteria, and probably pretty consistent among other brand hulls also.

[rodltg2]

I had a tower with speakers/racks and the wedge on my 05 lxi. I had complaints that my wake was hard and bump at 22 was bad. Took both off and it was much better.

[Tom351]

Theory: the aero drag effect of a tower may be worse for the wake than the weight of the tower ...the drag force at the top of the tower has a lot of leverage on the hull- leverage that loads the stern of the hull.. I would bet that adding a tower is similar in effect to not only adding weight, but adding weight at the stern. This would be similar (on a smaller scale) to how a wakeboarder can make the wake slightly bigger while loading the line (if using a tower and speed control)...and the wake shrinks back to normal when the line is unloaded.

[TallSkinnyGuy]

I'm not an expert in physics or aerodynamics, but I would have guessed that the pull from a wakeboarder is going to put significantly more load on the tower (in terms of pulling up the bow of the boat and the stern down) than the tower will get from wind resistance.

[Tom351]

Yes, I agree that a wakeboarder puts more load on the tower than wind at slalom speed..which is why I said "on a smaller scale"- but I bet that the wind resistance loading at 34mph acting at 8-10 feet above the propeller is not negligible.

[Wolfeie]

Most of the tournament style boats were designed for skier, driver and 1-2 passengers. I had an Mastercraft X7 (197) with a tower. When ever I skied I would only let driver and one passenger

(or ballast) in the boat. I considered the tower as one person. If I had more than two people in the boat when I was skiing I could tell the difference especially at 28 and 32 off.

[Wayne]

I notice some interesting statements in this thread. Even with the weight ranges given for a tower it's still in line with the weight of an adult male skier. I'm going to use what I consider a pretty reasonable example:

 

Lest say you train for tournaments behind a boat with no tower, no wedge and just a driver. You may add in some weight to counter balance the driver (so equivalent to 1.5 to 2 people in mass over the base boat). Let's also assume you train behind a current approved boat. So it's a similar set up to what you would see at a tournament except no boat judge.

 

Now you move to a tournament and they have 3 people in the boat. It's probably the same or more of an increase in mass compared to a tower. So why are we complaining about the wake of a boat with a tower versus one with out but there are no complaints about the wake because of the change in crew mass for a tournament wake versus your personal training boats wake?

 

At 36 MPH I think the aerodynamic effects of the tower are minimal compared to the hydrodynamic effects of the hull on the water.

[andjules]

Hmmm... could you squeak out a slightly more awesome wake by taking off the wedge and tower? Yes. But to what end? An LX with a tower and wedge is still an awesome slalom boat.

If you're a course skier and getting meaningfully higher buoy counts behind a 196, I'm sorry, but there's something wrong with your skiing technique. The wakes aren't different enough that they should be significantly affecting you buoy count. If you're not a course skier, the same holds. If you find the 196 that much better that you're no longer enjoying your LX in open water, then something's wrong.

If you're taking your family of 6 out, then you're already living the dream - a family who want to spend time together, in a boat, enjoying towed watersports (I'm assuming with 6 people, someone is eventually going to want to wakeboard or surf or tube). An LX with a tower and a wedge is an amazing boat for living that dream.

 

Don't forget, it's one thing to say 'I can tell the difference between boat X and boat Y', and another to say 'I can no longer enjoy myself nor ski to my potential because boat Y is so much worse than boat X'.

[Porkfight]

Add an airfoil to the tower and create lift at speed.

[Onside135]

@Texas6 If that boat belongs to @smanski, I skied a tournament round behind it recently, so I think he still has it. Scott's boats are always pretty dialed in and meticulously kept. This one is no exception…probably worth calling him again!

[The_MS]

So you plunk down 200 to ski in a record tourney (E/L/R) and you get a boat with a tower, driver, judge and a 3rd person working the camera. How many skiers are going to be happy with that?

[TustinTom]

+1 @andjules

Nothing better than early morning ski/barefoot runs with my brothers/boys, then getting the girls out around 11am for wakeboarding/lunch/drifting/family time all with the boat loaded down - blasphemy. As a 15 offer, 100 lbs doesn't matter (unless it's an ice chest full of bad beer)

[Hallpass]

The effect of a tower on a boat is that you will immediately attract more young women in bikinis while simultaneously repelling grumpy old men who like to ski around six floating balls. That said, the weight of most aluminum towers is less than the weight of one adult, is spread evenly across the boat, and is usually forward of the ski pylon. Any weight will have some effect upon the wake characteristic of a boat, but if you have a family in public waters, I think you've gotta do, what you've gotta do. The utility is worthwhile. My $.02. BKH

[bbirlew]

I added a tower to my '94 nautique after years of skiing it anywhere between 15 and 35off in the course and free skiing shorter than that.

I also routinely ski behind the same hull on my ski partners boat.

 

I can say with certainty that the effect of the fuel level in the tank has more of an effect on the wake than the tower.

 

Also, I'd guess it is significantly less than 100lbs. Easy to lift up over my head with 1 arm.

[Porkfight]

That evenly distributed 3% or so weight gain won't make much of a difference in public water, where G25's are sending rollers your way anyway.

 

It was a non factor when I was looking for a boat. Kinda wish mine had one, but it would have to be the factory tower in the photo @Texas6 posted.

[fox197]

I have a 2013 197 with a mini tower and have skied a 197 without and can't tell any discernible difference. With our mini tower the rear legs are way forward of the pylon so won't interfere with the rope. Not that it will every worry me lol. I love having the tower to keep the skis off the floor. Only really use the top tow point when people want to kneeboard.

[rodltg2]

Mini tower = goose egg on head.

[fox197]

@rodltg2 tell me about it. But id rather have a goose egg on my head than look like a goose with a tower that looks as tall as my boat is long.

[fox197]

And it keeps the Bimini lower for better sun protection

[fox197]

Thanks to my wife and sister for the slap together modelling job ha ha

[rodltg2]

That's a nice boat !

[oldjeep]

Even a full tower can mean goose egg only 6ft clearance on most including mine.

[Texas6]

I had the mini-tower on my 197, and I'd bet a hundred different heads cussed at it after smacking it HARD. Looked cool but just too dakn short

[socalskier]

Towers only add fun not wake.

[BWHITE]

On our lake have two identical 2007 LXis that we ski behind. Mine has the eastern factory mini Extreme tower while the other has the west coast addition made by Monster I believe. The other owner got so obsessed with the 22 off bump that she took her Monster tower off. I have skied behind both (34.2 MPH) and could not discern any difference in the wake at any length -22 to -32. I sure can tell the difference if we add another passenger in the boat though.

[Than_Bogan]

I'm pretty sure massive towers are actually Decepticons waiting for the right opportunity to strike.

[thager]

I wish people would just go to the gym to do pullups...

[DW]

A typical 2" diameter tubular tower would exert a torque force of about 60 ft-lbs (transom down) at 36 mph if I didn't totally botch the calculations. Fore - aft force would be about 10 # of air resistance force. That is just a tube, no extra stuff hanging off it.

[Skoot1123]

I just had an experience this past weekend where I was getting LAUNCHED off the wake on our boat. There were two people in the boat (besides the driver) but that factor hasn't made a dramatic difference in the wake in the past. HOWEVER - there were wakeboards and wakeskates on both sides of the tower.

 

@DW - the 60 ft-lbs is not huge, but it isn''t insignificant either. Add in a few wakeboards that act as hydrofoils on both sides of the tower and you can really feel that difference!

[Waternut]

@Skoot1123 The angle of the dangle on those boards may be playing a much bigger factor than the boards themselves. Make sure they are pointed slightly nose up when stored or they'll act like a spoiler and pull the boat down.

 

@AndersonSkiTeam I have a 2000 Malibu Response LX which is basically the same boat you have. I don't notice any difference between tower on and tower off. I really don't even notice a difference between 2 people in the boat and 4 people in the boat but beyond 4 people, the wake definitely feels bigger. The tower I added makes no difference from what I can tell other than looks and creates a boat that more friends are willing to use. Wakeboarders can drive too and it's easily to teach people to ski on a tower.

 

As for comparison... That 2005 SN had the TSC2 hull and our 1999 SN has the TSC1 hull. I've never ridden behind a TSC2 hull but my understanding is they aren't much different. Skiing the same lake with the same boat crew, my Malibu has a slightly firmer wake at 22off, steers/tracks better, and has less chine spray at shorter line lengths. 28off-32off, I thought the wakes felt nearly identical. The 1999 SN with TSC1 hull does have a slightly softer 22off wake but I felt it was harder at 35off. Neither have a big wake but wake firmness and chine spray is the only thing I can tell between the two boats skiing behind them.

 

As for math... I didn't do any because I don't really care but what some people may be forgetting is the difference between a bimini top and no bimini top. That bimini is probably creating more aero drag than the tower but it is likely creating a little bit of lift that the tower doesn't. Watch your bimini top blow up next time you accelerate. Since you can't have the same bimini with the new tower, that may be what people are feeling.