Zero off setting/ survey

[h2oskier_sd]

Just started skiing on zero off after skiing PP classic for most of my career, so just wondering what everyone out there is using skiing 34 mph?

[Glock]

A2

[9400]

B2

[skihacker]

C2+

[lakeaustinskier]

B2

[mikegile]

A1

[RazorRoss3]

If you're starting a good way to find yourself is to start at B2, everyone can ski well enough behind it. Then after 4 or 5 sets of figuring out how the boat works with ZO move to A2/C2, try it for a few sets, then try whatever of A2/C2 you didn't try the first time from there you have hopefully found your letter and can play with number. If you're sinking probably try 3, if your bent at the waist try 1.

[wskier]

Question I'm just switching to star gazer also where's the best place to put the gps puck on a 1999 snob

[ToddL]

C1

[ToddL]

FWIW, the selection of the ZO setting seems to vary based on a lot factors. I've heard skiers state that their recommended ZO setting is varied by any one of the following:

Skier size

Skier style

Skier experience/access to ZO

Skier willingness to try other settings

Line Length

Boat Model/Engine

 

I tried a 7 years ago to put together a survey to capture these types of data points and look for any correlation between the setting and the situation. I didn't really find anything terribly significant.

 

I think the goal is to find a ZO setting which supports you with a stong pull when you need it and is not "on" you when you don't. The timing and the abruptness/depth of the response is what you change when you select different settings. However, always keep in mind that the ZO throttle adjustments are in response to a skier input. The more you bang on the boat, the more ZO has to respond. If the timing of that "dance" is in harmony, then it just feels supportive.

[MISkier]

C2, but will probably need to re-evaluate that for the new single puck system and Direct Injection engines.

[MattL]

C1

[lpskier]

C2. If you have a good driver have him/ her make a suggestion after a few sets. A lot of the time what the driver is feeling helps you make the selection. #iskiconnelly

[Chef23]

A2 but I don't get to ski enough sets behind ZO to try other settings.

[Horton]

B2

[Alberto Soares]

A2 - 160 / 5 9

[Wish]

Just try all of them, document what you felt..likes..dislikes. Go back to the couple that felt the best and reride them and choose. As said, there are to many veritables and the setting that fits someone else may not fit you. Much like choosing a new ski or boots. It's just as personal feel. I changed settings based on 3 skis I've had in the last 2 yrs plus revamped how I ski so the first setting no longer applies. Found one that works better with the changes. Will prob do that again when I fully commit to a single boot and toe kick. Ride them all if you can.

[supergadget]

C1

6.0L

 

[PatM]

B3 I'm an odd ball

[Hockdog]

B2.

 

Sure miss Perfect Pass. ZO customer service is about the worst ever.

[VONMAN]

C2

 

Ernie Schlager

[markn]

C2+

[liquid d]

Everytime I see this type of conversation, it makes me long for perfect pass.....aaaahh, the good ole days.

[The_MS]

B1 or C1 depending on the boat and which engine.

[Gloersen]

probably a good idea to understand what "Kd gains" and "Clipping Value" implies.

 

C2

 

 

[Gloersen]

May be a good idea to understand what "Kd gains" and "Clipping Values" imply.

 

C2

 

 

[motoskier]

Not being a normal skier (per Horton) I practice at b2+ and do b2 in tournaments, most of the time it makes the my tournament ride pretty easy

[supergadget]

I'm spending the weekend skiing on PP classic . Boy does it feel nice .!

 

[Drago]

@magpie Sorry but this simply will not help you. Settings will be all over the board. Try different settings (preferably with different drivers) and you should find one that works for you

[gregy]

B2 only because I don't have much of a chance to ski on a ZO boat.

[Horton]

@motoskier that is terrible logic. + changes the speed at the gates so you will have a harder time being constant.

[Horton]

The thing i dislike the most about ZO is the different feel from boat to boat. I use B2 with the belief that boats feel most similar if i always use B2.

[ntx]

P fast second

[markchilcutt]

B2

[eleeski]

Hand slalom driving had two distinctive styles. Some drivers strove to minimize speed variations (like A1). Others allowed the maximum speed deviation in course (like C3). All aimed for perfect times but rarely hit it right on.

 

Perfect Pass did a much better job of hitting times reliably and removed much potential driver bias in getting those times. PP recognized the skier's preferences and added the switch to allow skiers to choose the driving style they preferred. When PP ruled, most serious ski boats had a working switch and the KX, PX, + - settings mattered to the skiers. I can't remember the exact theory but I preferred KX-, PX10 which felt a lot like the drivers I liked who let the speed vary a lot (C3). Without the switch it felt like the level speed drivers (A1). If a mistake or bobble happened in course, your overpull recovery would yield a time that was a bit slow but was very forgiving - regardless of the setting (that's why we all love PP).

 

ZO came along with wonderfully sophisticated speed measurement capabilities. Excellent programming allowed the skier to choose their preferred driving style. A range was offered. B2 is the middle of the range and thus the default (not some optimal setting as determined by ZO developers). I see A1 or C3 as the true default settings.

 

I recommend all the PP skiers who ski without a switch to default to A1. I recommend the skiers who have great pull positions to go C3 as the timing of the speed correction matches their strong position behind the boat. If a skier gets a lot of slack at the buoy, C3 helps there too. At really deep shortline, A1 seems to help get a bit wider. If you are skiing ZO a lot, you will (hopefully) experiment a bit to find what works for you personally.

 

I haven't done it in a tournament yet but if I can get enough (any?) cracks at 35 in good form again, I'd like to start at C3 and switch at 35 to A1. Had some fun in practice with that a while ago. Switching settings between passes is tournament legal.

 

I spend a lot of money to get fancy non stretch spectra ropes for tricking. A1 feels like I'm skiing on a bungee rope for my tricks. B2 is again the factory default for no real reason. While it feels OK, I always seem to have some struggles if the setting gets left there. I prefer C3. Transfer all the boat's pull to me right away and let my skiing enjoy it.

 

I jump letter A because with my lack of skills, I don't want any variables in boat acceleration. A ignores the switch. If you are a real jumper, hopefully you will have some time with a savvy coach who can recommend the letter suited to your style and distance. I don't believe there is a default setting - if there is, don't use it (unless your coach has chosen it for you).

 

The 5 word summary, "Choose a setting you like!"

 

Eric

[Horton]

I did not know it was possible to get a TRIPLE Panda for a ZO explanation but @eleeski has mad skills

http://media.tumblr.com/fe497dd337d9af8479bb6398b9565d16/tumblr_inline_mg6n5ltl6X1rxe4lt.gif

 

http://media.tumblr.com/fe497dd337d9af8479bb6398b9565d16/tumblr_inline_mg6n5ltl6X1rxe4lt.gif

 

http://media.tumblr.com/fe497dd337d9af8479bb6398b9565d16/tumblr_inline_mg6n5ltl6X1rxe4lt.gif

 

 

[Horton]

With any A setting the boat gets pulled down for longer before the ZO adds power and with any C setting the ZO adds power sooner preventing the skier from slowing the boat down as much. The longer the ZO waits on the skier the more power it has to add.

 

Pretty much the exact opposite of what Eric said. Silly trick skier

[Drago]

Whew, I thought all this time I had it wrong

[eleeski]

@ToddL posted this a while ago:

"From page 35 of Zero Off – RevQ User Manual:

A – Slower engine response out of the buoy, but the boat will tend to move ahead as the skier approaches the buoy.

B - Moderate engine response compared to A and C.

C – Faster engine response out of the buoy, but the boat will tend to hold back as the skier approaches the buoy.

1 – Requires the lowest amount of load before the system initiates an rpm spread. This provides for a softer pull behind the boat.

2 – Provides for a moderate pull behind the boat as compared to 1 and 3.

3 – Requires the highest amount of load before the system initiates an rpm spread."

 

So A1 will have a slow and muted response when the skier loads the boat (once the accelerometers feel it). C3 responds quickly and aggressively once the load is detected. As soon as the load is off, the extra power goes off. The response is not instantaneous for either setting so the timing of the power and boat speed will lag behind any ZO commands. At 1 ball, @Horton 's speed analysis is correct.

 

However, the A1 setting will be "mov(ing) ahead" and the boat will still be carrying extra speed and RPMs at the buoy. No hurry to get power back in once the load is sensed because there is already energy left over from the previous response to maintain an even speed.

 

At C3, the boat will have hammered you behind the wakes but recovered to set speed before you come into the buoy so there is no excess boat speed or any extra RPM engine power to start with. Your pull will take time for ZO to recognize the load, spool up the engine and have the boat physically respond. This lag will cause a speed drop - a large speed drop if you pull hard and abruptly. The C3 response is fast and strong so an overspeed is likely. But before the buoy is reached C3 is pretty good at getting back to the set speed so it can give you the "hold back as the skier approaches the buoy". The load caused speed fluctuations are intensified in a smaller time interval. Even if the actual magnitude of a speed variation is less (than an A1 variation) you will feel it more with the concentrated variations of C3.

 

Humans have pretty good natural sensors and processors to let us "feel" things. While an exact boat speed trace may vary more with A1 (probably depends on the skiing style), the intensity of the C3 speed variations make them more noticeable to a human skier. C3 feels like there is more variation (especially if your skiing style exaggerates the variation). I'll stand by my comments.

 

Isn't this my third Triple Panda? I am so much better than the rest of you at Panda fishing!

 

Eric

 

[303Skier]

The way I've learned it is smaller lighter skiers favor A's and heavier more aggressive skies that really pull on the boat use C's. I'm 205 lbs and I use C2 and C3. Seems to fit my style and needs.

[ToddL]

Everyone thinks that the progression of settings goes from A1 to C3. I think that is very wrong per Rev Q documentation.

 

C1 = responds early off the buoy and system engages upon the lowest amount of load.

 

As I understand the combination of C1, the skier will not be able to pull the boat down very far. The boat starts looking for a trigger sooner, and the trigger load doesn't have to be super huge for it to trigger. To mean this means the boat speed doesn't deviate very much from ideal because the speed is allowed to start recovering very quickly upon any deviation. Therefore, the boat can be off the skier sooner coming into the buoy.

 

 

To the other extreme is A3 = responds slower off the buoy and the system engages only after a high amount of load is exerted.

 

For A3, the skier is able to pull the boat speed down the most due to the delay in looking for a trigger load, and the load can build more before the boat response engages. To me, this means that the skier can pull the boat down the most; but as a result, the boat has to respond the most to recover the lost speed before the next buoy.

WRONG! (sorry folks - ToddL)

[Razorskier1]

C1

[eleeski]

@ToddL While A3 and C1 may be the extreme ends of ZO, I like the idea of either the slowest and lightest boat input (A1) contrasted to the fastest and harshest response (C3). Plus, I like the feel of A1 if I'm skiing really smoothly and C3 if I'm a bit ragged. Note, I normally use C3.

 

The A3 setting and the C1 setting haven't felt very good to me. Another reason I used A1 and C3 as my Panda bait. B2 is horrible for me (more Panda bait?).

 

Rev R is supposed to be the same as Q except for the added + option. I played with C2+ (felt kind of like C3 and I wasn't strong enough to get the benefit of C3+). Honestly I haven't been able to slalom enough to really figure out the optimal + settings.

 

Eric

[Horton]

Ok Reset. Lets all read what Will Bush wrote.

[Horton]

I know this upsets some folks but the real survey should be what is your letter number and your tournament average. This sort of thing tends to bring out some crazy egos but if you want to learn something you have to ask the right questions.

 

I will go from C2 or C3 from my normal B2 if a boat feels under powered. If a boat is under powered the i will pull it down more from the ball to the wakes so ZO has to add more and that means the boat is running on me at the ball.... feels more like A.

 

Remember the boat always gets an actual time +/-. ZO is a beast and the more you upset the beast the more you have to deal with.

[eleeski]

Totally supports my position!

 

Eric

[Horton]

@eleeski

"However, the A1 setting will be "mov(ing) ahead" and the boat will still be carrying extra speed and RPMs at the buoy. No hurry to get power back in once the load is sensed because there is already energy left over from the previous response to maintain an even speed."

 

That might be the single most illogical thing I have ever read on this website

[ToddL]

OK. damn it. I got it wrong above.

[Horton]

@ToddL thanks for saying so. It happens. As long as good information does get out there I am happy.

[eleeski]

@Horton What's logic have to do with buoys? Silly Vulcans.

 

Actually, @ToddL looking at the charts in Will's description, you were correct. Whether A1, C3 or A3, C1 allows the biggest deviations are dependent on the style of the skier. The A1 and C1 graphs look similar - just the timing is different. Likewise, C3 and A3 look like similar with different timing. Both are a wide contrast. And your explanations are reasonable. Your posting that I quoted earlier was the excerpt from the ZO manual and matches what Will says.

 

I don't want an early weak hit so C1's not what I'd choose. Nor do I want a hard late hit so no A3. I want a hard hit as soon as I can get it (C3) or the slowest and least amount of boat RPM change (A1).

 

Boat differences, water feel differences, wind differences and other variables might make a different number/letter optimal. But there are so many other factors I have to optimize first.

 

Eric