Nationals (and Regionals) ROI

[MISkier]

@John Brooks, I sort of do calculate ROI on my vacations. I assess dollars spent to expected enjoyment for all family members. We balance our plans to ensure we meet everyone's needs a little. That may mean we forego one specialized activity to reserve capital for another more broadly appealing activity.

 

That said, I would go to Nationals if I qualified, even as a bucket list item with no real chance to place or win. And, I would go knowing it might be a very short set. I'd plan to enjoy the show and friends as much or more than my ski time.

[RazorRoss3]

@liquid d, I'm fully aware of those pressures after skiing four years of collegiate and having the resolve to ski near or at my personal best at the conference and regional levels with several medals of the golden variety to show for it. So I certainly understand the excitement of the one shot all or nothing mindset and think it's a great format for what you're trying to do. Who's best today is the perfect way to do nationals because in a multi rounder the potential for upsets drops fast. The math usually doesn't make sense is the problem because for regionals in the Midwest, outside of our very own Nate Smith, I'm relatively competitive. I would certainly never judge anyone negatively for attending once or multiple times and I'm sure I will eventually as well but it just hasn't happened yet.

[brettmainer]

I had my shot at it yesterday, but like a bunch of others, I got in trouble early at 38 and went down. Even though the top dozen all had averages into 39, only 3 guys got there. 4@38 got to run off for 5th, which was unexpected, yet seems to happen often in the big one round tournaments. The frustration of "if I just wouldn't have overturned 1 ball, I could have been on the podium" keeps you coming back in hopes that next year, you can put it together when it counts. 4@38 is attainable for almost all of the entrants on their best day. If it was a 2 round tournament, there would be 10 scores into 39 and the 2@38 skier who pops off a PB of 4 wouldn't be in that run off. Even though it worked against me yesterday, I still like the one round format at nationals. It keeps the results from mirroring the seeding list.

 

The more you go, the more people you meet and the more fun the event is, regardless of how you ski. It is the annual "waterski family" reunion. I had a couple of beers after skiing and watched some pretty amazing Boys 3 jump. I watched my G1 daughter make new friends and have fun.

 

I am glad I went to Nationals.

[Than_Bogan]

@RazorRoss3 @OB1 Not really on topic, but I feel compelled to point out that as someone who loves to sit back, do nothing, and enjoy this amazing country, I like my Marines to be a bit on the aggressive side. :)

[brettmainer]

I forgot to mention that Nationals is also what passes for the annual waterski equipment expo. All of the new stuff and special nationals pricing. It is not the extravaganza it was 20yrs ago, but I enjoyed taking a look at the new Radar, the new Raptor and the new JT binding system.

[Horton]

You guys that are dead set that the one round sudden death format is best - you are telling me that you would NOT like it if nationals was a Prelim round, Semifinal and then a Final? That does not sound like more fun?

[jimbrake]

Back in late '91 I ran 5 @35 @36mph to qualify for my first nats ('92). That was when you had to get an "EP" rating to qualify. I was stoked to say the least. This was early on in my career, so a trip to regionals in Greeley, CO and a trip to Destin, FL for nats was going to take a lot of vacation and money. I tried to do regionals on the cheap, so I took the dirty dog (Greyhound) by myself to Greeley, which was an absolute hell ride. And....Greyhound lost my ski! Yay! I skied on borrowed equipment, missed my opener, and went back to California sorta bummed, but still stoked to be going to nats. Took my girlfriend (now my wife) for a week in Florida, had an awesome time seeing everything from Cocoa Beach, to Disneyworld/Epcot, got a couple of coached sets with Sammy Duvall, went fishing offshore in Destin, had a nice condo on the beach, and skied very meh. I wouldn't have missed it for anything.

 

Haven't been but to a couple of nats since - both in Bako because they were relatively close to home. The thing that has always attracted me to nats (I always WANT to go) is the chance to see and meet other skiers from across the country and see and take part in a high level of competition. Plain and simple.

[ntx]

@horton Soooo you plan to hold Nationals over the months of July AND Aug??? Orrrrr limit the numbers to ooooo about 8 skiers per age div and event.

 

How many three round, three event skiers can you pull in 6 days?? Now try to sell that number to the vendors who bring out the new products. Thats the point where THEY say..... What is the ROI for the company.

 

Three round tournaments are every weekend. Thats why you see inflated scores on the ranking list. The goal at nationals should be to finish above your seed.

[brettmainer]

Horton, your preliminary round, semi final and final is of course preferable. That, however, might have to wait until Nationals has less than 400 entrants in order to fit it all into one week. A very small number of skiers at nationals probably wouldn't entice the vendors as much, and it wouldn't be Nationals anymore.

 

There is a place for each format.

 

By the way, this was my first morning waking up is a M4 skier. My back hurts a lot for having only taken 3 1/2 passes yesterday and I can't find my glasses. Is this normal?

[Kelvin]

@Horton Don't get me wrong, the sport needs some outside the box thinking. Your format does sound like more fun, but what would need to change in the area of qualifications to pull if off and get reasonable numbers of participants. I would think the qualification levels would need to be increased giving fewer skiers the opportunity to go to Nationals.

[Horton]

I never said it was practical. I'm just saying I don't understand the claim that it is ideal to travel across the country for one ski ride.

[ntx]

@OB1 please dont make partcipation in states a requirement for regional, which is already a requirment for nationals.

[disland]

We need to start with the very first question.

 

Are we having a true National Championship or,

 

Are we having a big water ski festival that happens to have a tournament connected to it.

 

Answer this first before you get on to everything else.

[Horton]

@disland 1000000% agree

[MattP]

Just a side thought. The World Championships is a multi round event. Carry on.

[BRY]

@disland Simple: we are having both

 

The winner of each event is the National Champion of that event. They showed up, took on all comers, got it done and won.

Rankings list Champion is a different thing. Pick and choose the tournaments, ski multiple rounds when peaking and just the top few scores count. A big accomplishment, absolutely.

We can, and people do, go round and round on which winner is better. Cherry picked rounds vs pressure packed one and done. Strong arguments for both.

 

It is a big festival. Where else are you going to find that many yo-yo people in one place who can and will live and breath skiing literally 24/7 for a week? Meet skiers from all over the country? All the manufacturers there ready and sincerely interested in giving you personal attention? It's awesome.

 

I've been to three, unfortunately didn't make it this year, but will go again unless changes exclude me. It's not broken, there's nothing wrong with it. Is there a better way? Maybe, haven't seen that yet. If there is a better way, and we understand and accept the ramifications, great and all for it. Grow or die, change or die is true for big Corps driven by quarterly returns and nothing else. For entities like AWSA change for change's sake is often death. And regards to tournament skiing in general, changing Nat's is not going to fix the declining numbers. The issue is at the bottom end, getting new and retaining existing skiers, not at the top end with Nat's.

[Booze]

My perspective is, being an 'average' Nationals qualifier, my only shot at placing is a one-shot deal. Maybe I bust out a good score (above my practice average) and some of the other Level 9/MM/Big Dawg skiers have a bad day.

If we did some sort multi-round event, or something that shakes out scores near skiers tournament/practice average, it essentially takes me out of any chance of placing. That doesn't make Nationals more appealing to me. The gambling, roll-of-the-dice element of it does.

 

[BRY]

@MattP How many skiers per event in World Championships? I don't know but seems something you could pull up. Do some analysis for us? There are X number of rides in a day, times number of lakes times number of days. With Nat's currently going on and historic info for World's seems data is there for very good estimate of time per ride.

 

So two lake site, 5 or 7 day tourney, how many skiers per division for two rounds, for three rounds?

Horton's Prelim, Semifinal, Final is just 8 skiers per division.

 

Not meant to be calling you out, just respect for your ability and seeming interest to pull real data in the waterski world. Real data would help temper or sway many opinions on this. Perhaps even settle us on status quo or move us to an alternative? And away from dissatisfaction.

[DW]

Interesting reading and viewpoints, but if you think skiing ROI is low, try (amateur) car racing. SCCA employs the exact same "National Championship" format, one short race to decide class champions. The difference, the cost. Consider that fact you need a race vehicle (ski), trailer (ski bag), lots of tools (few tools) and tow vehicle then the potential crash damage both to vehicle and body that may ensue and to win, it will cost multiple times what you just spent for basically the same experience to ski at Nats, all for a trophy.

 

The same: the camaraderie at the event, the feeling of winning or losing, and of course the heart pounding out of your chest, addictive adrenaline pumping moment just before the start of your one shot at ultimate glory of spraying champagne on the people you just vanquished in one on one competition at the highest level of the sport in question.

 

ROI, logical, not exactly, you do this kind of thing because you love it, ROI be damned.

 

[MattP]

@BRY I'll for sure run the numbers. I for sure know I don't have the answers but looking at other models of competition can be healthy To help grow ours.

 

I was more pointing out that the most prestigious event in the world (Open, U21, Jr. ) in our sport along with E&A Champs (+35, U21, Jr.) and every Pro event is multi round. The Nationals is not.

 

Of course we all have our opinions with what should be done and I have my own. I'll take some time to put mine together.

[BRY]

@Horton "you are telling me that you would NOT like it if nationals was a Prelim round, Semifinal and then a Final? That does not sound like more fun?"

 

Nope, I would not, does not sound like fun to me, as I would probably never go. Great for the 8 guys that go in my division. My wimpy 98.67 (2.67@-38) average puts almost 70 guys M4 a head of me to get in. Though now I switch to M5 it's only like 40 guys a head of me. I keep adding buoys every year, slowly. But those guys do too. My only hope would be to outlast them and make it in M18 or something.

 

Your average is 101.17, top score 104. Top 8 M4 is a 108.25 average to get in. About 40 guys between you and that, all of whom you have to pass. They are all skiing and getting better too. IMHO opinion your not going to a National's with your 8 skier Prelim, Semifinal, Final anytime soon either. Are you telling you would like a National's you can't qualify for over one you could.

 

I am much more likely to fly to a tournament I ski in for 6 minutes than one I am not going to ski in at all. Quite certain I'm not going to a tournament I'm not skiing. Quite certain no one else is either. How many parents think a tournament the kids ski in is more fun than one they do not?

 

OK, off my soapbox here for a while.

 

[sunperch]

@OB1 I agree with you - I skied my first Nationals this year after having taken my kids to Nationals for years, just because it was my second year qualifying (didn't plan to take my kids last year as were new in their divisions). Being a competitor has been much more fun even though I did not ski what I wanted. I would have never chosen ID for a vacation on my own, but now I can say I have whitewater rafted class 4 rapids with my family, watched for rattlesnakes as we hiked Jump Creek Canyon, saw incredible scenery in Boise mountains and wine region, have a great hotel with a view of the river from my room, a chance to meet like minded people from around the country........and the best part is they have scheduled the junior banquet at the site with dinner, live music, mechanical bull rides, and pro night jump event. I would give Broadside Harbor an A+ for hosting a great event and the chance to explore another part of the country.

[Horton]

@BRY come to a BallOfSpray Cash Prize. Assuming that event you enter is full - the top 16 go to a head-to-head and everybody else skis in a handicap round. No matter what - everybody is guaranteed three rides and the odds of winning money are actually quite good for every contestant. It's not a national championship but the overarching design criteria is to make it fun for as many skiers as possible.

 

I am not implying that my events replace something like Nationals but I am saying that I spent a lot of time thinking about the format and it's possible to design something interesting.

[Chef23]

There is obviously no financial ROI on skiing nationals it is about the experience. If I qualify I will definitely go the first time I qualify.

 

I have always liked to challenge myself against the best. When I was playing a lot of golf and just improving I always played in the scratch division even though I wasn't going to win. I feel the same way about Nationals.

 

I like the concept of a one round/one shot national tournament to see how you can do under the pressure.

 

That said it would be nice to have maybe a second class C event that you could get a score at in addition to the one round nationals. Most sites don't have the facilities to do this but a spot like Okeeheelee does.

[BRY]

@Horton Your BOS Cash Prize sounds like a great concept, great tournament. Hope I can make one some time. That's what we need in this sport, and at the C level the more the better. I applaud the work you put in to come up with and execute your idea. As I posted elsewhere I believe the issue with numbers is from the bottom rather than the top. Need new skiers in and current skiers staying in. Your tourny is a direct shot at both, attractive for new and current skiers. Kudos.

 

Your post above was specifically targeted at Nationals and what I was responding to was that. Look at @sunperch's post. That Nationals experience mirrors what mine have been, sounds like OB1's and many others. It is great for the sport and great for the 600+ skiers who qualify and show. @sunperch hit it spot on, that type of experience is what I am defending. Certainly open to improving if good ideas found but going more elitist does not bring in new skiers nor retain current ones. The current Nat's don't bring in anyone new but I believe goes a long way to helping retain current ones. I would not want that lost with any changes.

 

You have a big voice and for the lurkers and non-Nat skiers I felt there needs to be an supporting view for Nationals as is. It is good as it is. It is a worthwhile goal. It is worth going to, at least once, for those who qualify.

[sunvalleylaw]

All I know is that I sure wish I had been able to attend, especially with it being basically a 3 hour drive from home. Had I known, I might have made different vacation plans. The festival aspects with folks interested in skiing would have been fun. I am not even registered with AWSA (though I plan to fix that), much less qualified to attend. I think ideas to bring more folks into the festival/trade show part of the event sounds great. I will leave the tourney discussion to the folks that are qualified to ski them. Not sure if I can pull it off, but I hope to attend one of the local events in September at nearby Gilbert Lake, which I think was one of the practice lakes. Gotta start somewhere.

 

Also, WRT ROI discussion, I agree that it would seem to be an experience rather than any sort of true ROI. I couldn't see any real tangible financial ROI for the vast majority of folks. For a guy like me, who really likes skiing, my desire to go somewhere where I can geek out about skiing has to be weighed against everyone else's vacation desires. I know MY wife does not want to go hang at a tourney lake in the high desert while I ski geek. (though, if we did not live close already, and I set her up with some white water rafting and/or alpine hiking, I am sure she would be fine and we would have dinner later). Pretty sure the same would be true for a lot of "normal" folks. So not sure how one changes that. I suppose the venue, and what else the venue offers, would have a lot to do with that. For comparison, in terms of combining such an even like Nationals along with family vacation, I have thought about vacations down in Acapulco so I can go ski with coaching, and the fam can do other stuff. But even that has not flown by scrutiny so far. It may be that actual tournament participation at Nationals may be truly for a select group of folks, and that great numbers participation may be more about the other stuff such as ski demos, booths, other fun, etc. Depending on water availability for demos, etc. Not sure if any of this is useful, but since we were talking about bringing more people in, and I would be in the market . . .

[Than_Bogan]

I really do love the idea of a skiing convention & festival. Last year I attended Nationals solely for that aspect, and had a GREAT time. This year, I was considering doing it again, but some conflicts arose.

 

I've skied in several Nationals, and that was fun, too. Yes, even the times I missed my opening pass! But with my current lack of focus on tournaments, I haven't been qualified in the last couple of seasons.

 

I'd love to see even more of an effort of promote a convention & festival, even if the best way to do that turns out to be to make it much harder to qualify and I am locked out as a participant.

 

Just throwin' something out there, but how 'bout only having the level 10 guys ski in the tournament proper, but offering a huge "experts only clinic" for the level 8 and 9 guys? To find instructors for that, pay the entry/room/flights for any level 10 skier who spends X/Y/Z amount of time coaching!

[sunvalleylaw]

@Than_Bogan , I like the instruction idea, but think there should be something in terms of instruction for the 15 off to nearly completing 28 set too.

[eleeski]

@MattP and @BRY The multi round aspect of the world tournaments serves to increase the pressure. Not only can you blow the medals round but you can blow the prelims and not even get a shot at the finals. If you make the cut, you wait around for a few days for the finals. And even if you have little chance of advancing you still have to schedule the entire time - just in case. Nationals is easy by comparison.

 

Adding a second tournament as a last chance qualifier along the lines of @Chef23 proposal. Could make the travel more worthwhile.

 

When possible I make Nationals a jumping off point for a fun vacation. I'll enjoy the experience regardless of the skiing.

 

Eric

[MrJones]

Lots of good thoughts here. Seems to me that Nationals is almost making the best out of a difficult situation. We need a National Championships to promote the sport. This is also a very family oriented sport and it needs to be open enough that most of the "family" can reasonably achieve participation. A multi round format would be great, but logistically really hard.

 

I believe Nats are pretty good as is. The only concession to that might be actually trying to get it shorter (4 days ?) by using at least 3 lakes. The reasoning for this is so that vacations were easier to work into the trip. We did it this year, but some years were at the lake all day every day.

 

Last. I believe all this changes. A few years ago I was really into the Big Dawg stuff. Now, it's very much a family sport as the kids are old enough to be skiing. My last solo tourney was the 2014 Sr. Worlds. It was a bucket list thing, but in truth I didn't enjoy it much. Didn't feel right without having a hotel room full of kids there with me. Now when they all take off into the world I might be more back into those events, but for the moment we are all having a ball in Idaho!

 

[skidawg]

Agree 100% with the family tournament scene. Way more fun and satisfying than the solo BD stuff.

[Fast351]

Looking to get an ROI on any amateur activity is silliness. @DW above compared it to amateur car racing, which is a really good comparison actually. I used to drag race, and while it is marginally cheaper than SCCA, there is no way you're ever going to make any money at it, or even come close to breaking even. I considered a really good weekend racing when I covered my cost (gas+entry fees). That doesn't come close to the dollars invested in the race car/tools/tow vehicle, etc.

 

How does this relate to skiing? I don't even ski competitively (yet) and I've spent money on a ski, boat, lift, lake home, ropes, etc etc. I will probably never get to go to nationals because I got started too late in the game, but if I got the chance to go, hell yeah I would. Because of some sort of ROI calculation? NOPE. Because I would enjoy hanging out with like minded individuals that are just as passionate about our sport as I am, and watching and learning.

 

It's something you do because you love it. Otherwise none of us would get started in this sport. Nationals is just an extension of that.

[LeonL]

@Fast351 just how late did you get started in the game? I started skiing the course at age 40. I progressed, what I would call slowly, yet I qualified for Nationals. It took 13 years, but it happened. Surely most any skier could progress at a rate equal or better than that. Stick with it, you'll see.

Oh, by the way drag racing used to be my thing too. My last year I put over 10,000 miles on my car hauler going to races, didn't even try to keep up with expenses. Won a few races, finished third in the points for stock eliminator (IHRA) and I know I didn't break even. So, as successful a season as I could ever hope for and no money made, but I didn't expect to either.

[Hallpass]

If someone does not have the money, then they don't have the money. If they would rather spend limited funds elsewhere, I get it. And, since I'm not a competition skier, I don't deserve an opinion.

 

But, in terms of the ROI from travel to sporting competitions, I don't see how water skiing is any different than swimming, or roller skating, or track, or snow skiing, or any of the other sports that I've paid thousands of dollars to travel for a few minutes or seconds in a pool, rink, track, snow hill, whatever. I'm sure many have paid a fortune for traveling baseball, volleyball, soccer, martial arts competitions, football games, cheer leading competitions, etc.

 

To me, it's just what you do if you or your kids play sports. Can't take it with you.

 

 

 

 

 

[Fast351]

@LeonL I just started getting serious about slalom last year, and earlier this year we moved to the lake full time. I've probably tripled the number of sets I've taken to the same point in time last year, and I can tell I'm starting to improve pretty quickly. I'm 44, so not all hope is lost :smile:

 

I don't have any lofty goals of making it to nationals, but if I qualify I am definitely going. I do look forward to getting to the point where I can compete locally though. I still have a ways to go, but it's a goal anyway...

 

[ALPJr]

Al's (Frosini) Novice Nationals in Berkeley sure had a nice ROI. 2 rounds STJ, concession, raffles, announcers, was about $30 with a t-shirt included. AWSA gave him some grief because he liked to schedule it during the Nat's.

[MISkier]

@Fast351, I didn't return to the course until age 42 and couldn't run anything. First tournament at 45. Qualified for Regionals this year at nearly 51. Still eyeing a Nationals qualification. You've got time and that Nationals goal is not out of reach.

[MrJones]

This may sound silly, but it comes to mind as I sit here waiting to take off from Boise.

 

It's cool to be at an airport terminal and actually see people dragging 3 event bags and wearing ski t shirts! Waterskiing is so small, it actually makes me like I'm part of a bigger community/sport. Like I said, it may be silly, but I look forward to it every time I go to Nats.

[Hockdog]

Very cool.

[A_B]

It would seem to me that there should be more dinners or something everyday or post event celebrations that skiers in the respective groups could mingle and get to know one another. The friendships developed within your age group would help make it more compelling to go back.

 

Anything along those lines to have more comradery and bring about a sense of community. Meetings where the whole group is introduced etc.

 

Just thinking out loud.

[brettmainer]

I would love to see nationals held at Broadside again next year. Fantastic weather to be outside all day in, which encourages folks to hang around and mingle rather than run back to the AC. Bell Acqua in Sacramento would be another great option for the same reason.

 

Or Laku.

 

Both Sacramento and especially Denver are very airport convenient with lots of great nearby non skiing activities.

[ScarletArrow]

My own story...

 

I'm not good enough to qualify for Nationals, but 2 of my kids did this year for the first time and so we went. While we've regularly gone to Regionals, but when you combine both trips (since the former is required) the all-in cost was about $3.5k. Unfortunately, one of the downsides of the cost is that my wife and youngest son stayed home so we could save a little money.

 

Nevertheless, being our first Nationals and our first trip to Boise my kids and I were really excited. Like many others we planned some activities around the skiing - we climbed a nearby mountain in the Boise Mountain range the day before our skiing. It was great way to kick off the trip and make a memory with my kids.

 

When we first walked on site one of the first people we saw was @MarcusBrown doing his thing and my kids immediately recognized him and totally flipped out. When we had a long layover in DEN on the way home, we killed time watching all of his Flowpoint videos. We got pictures with the pro skiers, sat for hours watching the best trick and jump skiers do their thing. We cheered, consoled and celebrated with our friends when they skied.

 

My kids were nervous and excited about their own skiing. My daughter skied her average in both events and my son tied his PB. There were great teaching moments. The #2 seed in my daughters division missed her gates on her opening pass. Heartbreaking. 5 hours later I'm buying a raffle ticket from her and she's all smiles.

 

The skier right after my son fell at 1 ball. His dad was on the shore consoling him. As we watched all that unfold, I took the time to have a conversation with my son about what happened and what it means. You can't duplicate these conversations anywhere else.

 

I supported the sponsors and spent about $1k in equipment (3 event skiing is expensive!) so you can add that to to the $3.5k total above.

 

When it was time to leave, neither one of my kids wanted to leave. We just had the time of our life - and it wouldn't necessarily have improved if we skied 2 more rounds.

 

I can't measure my ROI in dollars and cents, but I can in another way. We got home last night at 1:45am. When my daughter woke up this morning she asked me if we were going to the lake today.

 

Now I totally understand if I had been going to Nationals for 25+ years I might become bored with the idea of getting 35th place out of 40 skiers and not want to keep spending that kind of money to get a predictable result. But I don't think that necessarily means Nationals is broken.

 

I don't think Nationals can be all things to all skiers. I don't think it's possible to have one tournament be ultra-competitive, have multiple rounds, include non-qualified skiers, showcase professional skiers, be family friendly, convenient, cost effective and over a 3-4 day weekend.

 

There is a time and a place for other formats like Buckeye Buoy Tour, the BOS Cash Prize, Pro-Ams, Big Dawg, etc. to do accomplish those other goals outside of the Nationals format. If we want to debate the right format for Nationals (i.e. sudden death vs. multiple rounds) that's fine, but I don't think the goal should be to try and shoehorn the other formats and take away from the prestige of the event itself.

 

(sorry so long)

[MrJones]

Scarlet.

Extremely well put. I do just have to say that "shoehorning" doesn't fit the description in the case of the US open. It was that way for years and being able to see a live pro event greatly enhances the week. Especially if you are there for the experience vs chasing medals.

 

I also agree about the weather. I told my wife how pleasant is was not to just dread being out in the heat for days. +1 for slightly more northern sites.

[brettmainer]

Regarding ROI,

@Horton, if you had gone to Regionals, you probably would have beaten @Dirt. You could have possibly beaten him at Nationals. What would that double have been worth to you?

 

Alas, you missed your chance. @Dirt will most likely ski into 41 in any future events you do decide to attend.

[Horton]

@brettmainer I will own @Dirt in 2017

[skidawg]

As long as @horton changes skis more often than his underroos he will never beat @Dirt - really hope the national venue remains the same for next year, hated to miss it

[brettmainer]

That is a pretty lofty goal. In the unlikely event that you pull it off, I'm sure Chtistine would be happy to sign the pink slip over to you.

[WBLskier]

Took my 10 year old girls 1 skier to nationals. I've never qualified. It isn't that hard to qualify as a girls 1 skier. She doesn't know that. She doesn't need to. She had an amazing experience. She has never been more excited about skiing than she is now. She wants to start tricking after watching her new friends (who she met and competed against at regionals and nationals) trick. Maybe it's different because it's a kid but another round or two would have made zero difference. Like someone else posted, with 3 rounds there would be zero upsets. That is part of the allure. In a one round tournament your average only matters for your seeding...after you leave the dock you're all in the same boat and have to perform.

[WBLskier]

For the record. Until we committed to go we had decided that the cost to ski regionals and nationals could not be justified and we'd be better to just go ski so somewhere else and get much more skiing in. After going to nationals this year I feel very differently about it.

[schroed]

@brettmainer - Kudos to you for starting this thread. I think the discussion on this thread is important for the future of a national championship. After skiing 16 out of the last 17 nationals (I missed one year due to a broken collar bone) and having my son ski nationals the last two years in Boys 1, here are some of my thoughts:

 

1. The one round format does give more skiers a chance. I've placed second twice with skiers that had much higher averages than me in the field. If nationals would have been an elimination format, I don't think I would have placed as high. So, I for one like the one round format for the same reasons Brett mentioned.

2. On the flip side of my first point, the expense of traveling for one round of slalom is an issue. Figuring out a better solution to this objection is important. Perhaps changing how practice is organized/run would help so that people are assured they'll at least get one additional ride would help (even though it is practice). In Idaho, I practiced twice and had my tournament ride. So, I didn't ski just once. Having a parallel tournament that skiers could ski in could help. A couple years I skied in the Big Dawg finals along with the nationals. That definitely made the trip more worthwhile. I don't think having the Big Dawg is the right anwser, but I think having another tournament that skiers could participate in that's run in conjunction with nationals would help.

3. Night events like the night jump and Big Dawg finals helped (let's not get into the unfortunate turn of events in San Marcos. Point is, a lot of people turned out for these type of events).

4. Having the US Open run in conjunction with Nationals would be cool. I remember going to my first nationals at Bel Aqua (as a spectator) and watching the US Open somewhere around 1992. I then got to walk over to Lake 2 and watch some of my friends from my college ski team compete. That was cool. Maybe we could bring the US Open back so that more pro skiers would be there. My son certainly liked seeing Nate Smith in Idaho. Perhaps running the qualification rounds for the US Open during the day and having a night finals would be cool.

5. I think you can have both a national championship and a festival like atmosphere.

6. Having your kids ski in nationals is both fun and provides many teaching opportunities. My son came out of the water crying after his slalom run. That moment gave me a great opportunity to put things in perspective for him. Even though slalom didn't go as planned, he made many friends with kids from all over the country and had a great time.

7. Having nationals in different parts of the country is good. Broadside did an awesome job and brought many people to the Boise area that probably would have never been there. I enjoy traveling to new places for nationals. Perhaps AWSA should make it more attractive for sites to host nationals so that more sites would be willing to host.

8. I really enjoyed watching the events this year from a spot where I could see multiple events going at the same time. Multiple times I walked down the grass area between the lakes and was able to watch some really good jump events on one lake and slalom on the other.