2016 Vapor vs Pro Build

[Stevie Boy]

At what point do you think it would worth while switching from the 2016 vapor to the 2017 Pro Build what line length skier is going to benefit , we already know the 2016/2017 Lithium Vapor is a great ski.

I guess what I am asking , is it worth spending the extra dollars on a Pro Build if your not running 35 off regularly is the ski meant for the more gifted amongst us.

[Razorskier1]

The 2016 is a very good ski. If you already have one I'd stick with it.

[texas_slalom_trick]

Yes, its worth the extra bucks for the 2017 pro build

 

[bradb]

@texas_slalom_trick could you provide some info on why you say it's worth the extra money.

[texas_slalom_trick]

@bradb Sure. It skis better due to the new core material, PMI foam, instead of the previous vapor cores made up of pvc foam. As usual in vapors there will be amazing speed, feel of the ski on the water,as well as the forgiveness & durability. you can also read about the construction of the pro build on performance surf and skis website.

[Razorskier1]

when somebody tells me that they are consistently improving their best scores by 2-4 buoys I'll pony up for the probuild. Until then, the 2016 Vapor is damn good.

[JC McCavit]

Maybe @Horton has surpassed his all time PB testing the new Vapor Pro-build and is waiting to ride it in a tournament to make the new score official before reporting the results.

 

[Chef23]

If you have a 2016 Vapor and are not running 35 consistently I don't see a big reason to upgrade unless you have the money to spend and like trying new stuff. The new core in the 2017 isn't going to make the difference between getting 2-3@35 and running 35 consistently. Improving your technique is needed to bridge that gap and the 2016 Vapor is plenty of ski.

 

I will add that I haven't skied either the 16 or 17 Vapor it is just my belief on skis however as @Razorskier1 said if someone just changes skis, does nothing else and picks up 2-4 buoys I will change my view.

[swc5150]

I suppose if I had money to toss around, I'd get a 2017. However, my '16 is everything I've ever wanted in a ski, so I'll stick with it a while.

[Stevie Boy]

@OB1 nice lake, I like the idea of durability, but clearly there is no real track record to go on here, info is based on blurb, maybe feedback from the aerospace industry, forgiving, too early not enough skiers of various levels on it yet, haven,t seen any setup numbers or do they start the same as the 2016 Lithium, am I interested "Hell Yeah" do I want to burn an extra $500 and play with the fin, not sure.

[SkiJay]

The fin on the Pro Build is different from last year's fin, so don't panic if you put your favorite numbers from the 2016 onto the ProBuild then don't like the new ski as much. I'm currently comparing the two and will come up with a good conversion. So far .010 deeper and shortening DFT by .005 makes the PB roll and smear a lot like the 2016.

[bigtex2011]

@SkiJay i noticed it is thinner by .006. I would think it would feel faster and less tip

[gregy]

Wonder if Radar used a stronger material if they went that much thinner on the fin

[texas_slalom_trick]

@OB1 I have not ridden the 2017 yet. I just have a lot of knowlage on the radar products.

 

[ALPJr]

@SkiJay looking forward to your analysis.

[Jordan]

@Horton any first impressions of the Pro Build?

[Stevie Boy]

I see the Pro Build is now available, anybody got one for the weekend ?

[bradb]

How about it @Horton some first impressions!!!!!

[gmut]

I think you guys @SkiJay and @Horton should get your hands on a 2017 lithium Senate and give us some feedback.

[Stevie Boy]

C'mon nobody treated themselves to this new stick yet, spill the beaans.

[Horton]

since some of you guys are asking.... The Radar guys sent me a ski for an unboxing but want me to wait until things are heating up in the Spring to review it. I think this makes a lot of sense.

 

I can say that the few skiers I know that are on the new ski do feel it is a real upgrade. I had loaned my 2016 to @charlieskiwest and he picked up a few balls from his 2015. He then got a 2017 and is skiing even better.

[Stevie Boy]

@Horton thanks at least a snippet, I was thinking because they were now available, there would have been a bit more noise.

[Jmoski]

I have one - upgraded from 10 year old F1. Absolutely love it. I was going to get a new Connelly GT, but after I skied a few sets on my friend's '16 lithium vapor - I was hooked.

[JC McCavit]

@SkiJay - Have you come up with any additional conversions for fin differences between the 2016 & 2017 Pro-Build? The first recommendations in your post above from September 15th really helped and I recommend everyone riding the Pro-build consider trying them.

[SkiJay]

Hi @JC_McCavit. As time goes on, it looks like the conversion listed above does a great job of making the current fin behave like last year's fin (last year's numbers –.005 of DFT, +.010 of FD).

 

But I'd suggest that people only apply this conversion after they've tried their favorite numbers from last year's ski. There's always a chance this fin change will be an improvement over an old setup that was less than perfect. Generally, the current fin smears and rolls ever so slightly more than the 2016 fin, a difference that can help some skiers.

[ColeGiacopuzzi]

Hey guys I know a lot of people are super curious how the Pro Build feels and wanted to get you a teaser. I got mine a few weeks ago thanks to @richarddoane @eddie_roberts_jr and @brooks so big thank you to them!

This past weekend I finally got to switch skis to the 17 since tournament season has come to an end. I started with the same settings I'm on now and have made a few tweaks here and there. On the first ride I can easily tell you, the ski is super predictable, more stable and more forgiving. I'm excited to try some different settings this weekend to get a more general feel for the ski. Overall, it is working great, and having more feel for the ski under my feet I really like.

[Ralph Lee]

I've skied the 16 and 17, both brand new, you obviously cant go wrong with either! I ended up buying the 16 having felt equally is comfortable on it and it came with a cheaper price.

[Razorskier1]

If I hadn't just bought a 2016 Vapor, I might consider a ProBuild. However, I have the 16 and with current settings it is the best ski I've ridden to date. An interesting aside that perhaps @SkiJay could comment on. Using the original settings which were, generally, long and shallow, I liked the ski but it seemed unpredictable. Sometimes I'd run a super easy 38 (very good), and other times I'd just tip over at 32 or 35. With a change to shorter and deeper, it was like night and day. The ski became highly predictable and 38's became very consistent, and generally pretty easy. Several things seemed very noticeable:

1) the ski now allows me to put the hammer down and generate tons of speed when I need to and is still perfectly controlled in transition and at the ball.

2) is it possible that the right settings make you a better skier? What I mean is that with these settings other things were just better. For example, I'm more on top of the ski, don't tip in at 2/4, handle control is better, etc. So all the things I had been thinking about a lot now just seem to work without much effort. I am thinking a lot less and skiing better. I found that interesting - hadn't experienced it before.

3) ski turns consistently and generates tons of angle, but not much load. I believe this is because it now carries through the turn with more speed, so when I connect the ski is moving. As we know, you can load the line if the ski is moving and there isn't much load (versus those times when a ski digs a hole at the ball).

 

All in, great ski, and great support from Team Radar across the board!

[thager]

@Razorskier1 I agree totally. When the ski is set up right for the present conditions every aspect of technique is easier and skiing is better. When not set up right I tend to compensate with incorrect form, movements, and extra load to get the ski to do what I need to fight thru the pass.

[SkiJay]

@Razorskier1 I suspect what you've found has less to do with the setup being shorter and deeper than stock, and more to do with having improved the way the ski engages tip and/or smears in response to your personal technique. You can achieve this same magical performance through a wide range of long/shallow through short/deep setups. Congrats on nailing your setup!

[wtrskior]

I notice the 17 lithium vapor is a few $100 cheaper than the 16.

 

Anyone know if there is a difference in the lithiums from 16 to 17?

[TallSkinnyGuy]

Seems like I read somewhere that they are not using the fancy carbon in the 2017 lithium version like they did in the 2016 version. So, the fancy carbon is just for the pro build version and the lithium got downgraded and given a price drop. I don't remember where I read that and I could be wrong.

[ColeGiacopuzzi]

As I know the Lithium is exactly the same as it was in 2016. The 2017 Lithium version has the same layup they did in 2016. The 2017 ProBuild has the PMI core. Just to double check we'll ask @eddie_roberts_jr

[TallSkinnyGuy]

According to the 2016 brochure, the Vapor had Textreme carbon and Innegra, which they are now only promoting in the Pro Build version. The Radar website shows the 2017 lithium Vapor as having Sigmatex carbon and "now at a more affordable price."

[RichardDoane]

.

 

@Colebrah

 

[6balls]

The moves for me via Rossi were shorter and deeper as well, though not as far as @razorskier1. I'm curious to push mine further that way but season is done for me here...so next year. We both pull heavy at times, turn a big 2,4 and tend to jump on the nose at 1,3,5 so probably similar settings in the end...though I've not liked some skis Jim has liked. Also curious to run a 68 Vapor.

[ColeGiacopuzzi]

That tournament was a blast @ZipZapPaddyWhack Stoked to hang and ski in the future with ya!! Hoping to get up in the PNW next summer for sure!

[brooks]

@wtrskior @TallSkinnyGuy the 2017 Lithium Vapor compared to the 2016 Lithium Vapor loses Textreme Carbon and our Innegra which is featured in the Pro Build with PMI. 2017 Lithium Vapor uses Sigmatex Carbon and a PVC Core out of the same mold.

[eddie_roberts_jr]

Although the 2017 Lithium has the same flex and rocker as the 2016 it does have a tighter plain weave carbon for the top layer.

[neddie]

My son is currently riding a 2016 Vapor 65. He's just above 120 lbs and growing... Runs 32 off at 34 mph on a good day and will stay at 34 for another year. Every now and then it looks like he putting a bit too much weight on the tip. I'm going to let him demo a 66 Pro build (he loves his current ski). His setting on the 65 is;

6.958

2.463

0.728

9 degrees and binding at 29".

Where should I get him started on the 66 Pro?

 

I'm going to let my other youngster try the 63.5 Vapor (2016). What settings should I put him on to start with? He's 90 lbs and riding a 62.5 today.

 

Thanks

[RichardDoane]

@brooks

[skionone]

im 150lbs 5 foot five ski into shallow 35s , thinking about a 65 inch lithium , possibly a 66 but never had 2 much luck turning a longer ski. any thoughts ?

[brooks]

@neddie how tall is he? 66 seems like a bit of a stretch. I would maybe move his boot to 28.75 and fin forward to .745. If you decide 66 I would start at 29.5 6.960 2.460 .755 and then report back.

 

@skionone I would go with a 65 Pro Build.

[neddie]

Thanks @brooks. Yes, I figured the 66 is a definitive boarderline. He's 5'4"-5'5" right now and will probably add another inch (or maybe event 2 during the winter). I'll have him try 28.75 and .745 and evaluate that. Will probably let him try the 66" just for fun. I believe it is good to try different skis, sometimes that will help you realize stuff about you own skiing that you weren't aware of.