Binding Spacing

[pcmcon729]

Hey, I've been out of skiing for a number of years, until my daughter got me fired up about it again last year. I just got a new Goode XT, and am mounting D3 T-Factors on it. This is the closest resemblance of what I used to ski on, when I was skiing well. I had my old bindings spaced 11.25" heel to heel, as this is what I was coached to do many years ago. These bindings would need to be modified to match that spacing. I'm 5'9". Can anyone share opinions on today's standards for spacing?

[Horton]

Most people get their feet as close together as possible

[Alberto Soares]

I am also 5'9" with XT, reflex/r-style, use US 8.5 shoes, I like my bindings 1" apart

[Than_Bogan]

Welcome back! Especially if this is who I think it is.

[lpskier]

If you were skiing at 36 before, you can live with a little more space between your feet if you are now at 34. 13" is about max.

[Horton]

@lpskier you are going to have to give us more information on that theory.

[pcmcon729]

Hey Than. Yeah, it's me. Always read Ball of Spray, but just registered to chat. Cool site, and good info. Enjoy torturing myself looking at the pics of everyone enjoying perfect weather, as a snowmobile rips down the lake a few feet atop my buoys. Anyhow...

So, if I drop my new bindings on the new Goode, on the closest holes, they are 12" heel to heel. Again, my old ski, they were 11 1/4" apart. Does anyone have any compelling reason why I should change this and make them closer? I'm thinking just ski it and see what happens (once ice is gone).

[Horton]

@pcmcon729 you may like them further apart but changing from close spacing to wide spacing is going to be a significant change. My guess is you're going to find yourself on your back foot.

[pcmcon729]

Horton, Would you consider 12" spacing, "Wide"?

[Than_Bogan]

Excellent! As I think you know, I'm not skiing many tournaments right now, but hopefully we'll manage to cross paths in 2017!

 

On the N1 (not XT -- I never skied the XT), I moved the boots around a bit based on advice from Dave Goode himself, and where I ended up was a much closer spacing than I had on the 9900. On the Denalis, I've gone back to the somewhat larger spacing, so it may be the N1 has some characteristics that favor close boots.

[Horton]

@pcmcon729 I do not measure heel to heel. On all of my skis I simply get my rear toes as close as I can to my front heel. That may be old school but it works for me. I think the vast majority of the skiing public does the same thing.

 

I am aware that some tuners feel that front binding impacts off side and back bindings impact off side. That is just not the way I think about it. The only Pro that I am aware of that runs a big spread is JT. I am sure there are others.

[BlueSki]

Regina is another that runs with a bit of a gap.

 

[Horton]

Regina amd JT are AMAZING athletes but i think few of us try to mimic thier movements. World record scores or not they are not the smoothest skiers.

[pcmcon729]

Thanks all. Good info.

[gregy]

I used to put mine as close together as possible. When I went to Reflexes I had to spread them out some. After I skied on it some I really liked it. I'm 6'2" and have giant feet so even when I had them closest possible it over 12" back to back.

[BlueSki]

@pcmcon729, the book Fin Whispering by @jayski has a good section on what you can expect from rear binding spacing, including why so many of us try to keep them as close together as possible.

[jayski]

@BlueSki @SkiJay wrote the book, he just wanted to have a cool BOS handle like me so he reversed mine :)

[BlueSki]

Whoops. I guess one of you is the Bizarro version of the other. Thanks for the correction, but perhaps you should have taken credit, the book is full of great stuff.

[bkreis]

@pcmcon729 I wear reflex 10 w r style, spacing is 12.5" ankle to ankle. Andy M had me do this to help staying stacked.

[SkiJay]

I know it's widely held that mounting the bindings further apart "should" provide a more stable stance, but here are some things to ponder in this regard.

 

When standing on solid ground, clearly the further apart your feet are (within reason) the more stable your stance will be. But this “wide” stance is irrelevant to a skier’s stability for three reasons:

If your feet were bolted to the ground in bindings, you’d have an enormous amount of control over your balance front to back regardless of how close together the bindings were.

A ski isn’t as stable as solid ground. A ski pitches up and down easily when the skier moves their weight back and forth.

The longer the distance from the back binding to the tail of the ski, the more stable the tip attitude will be.

Changing the distance between your bindings just changes is how much leverage you have to rock the ski's tip attitude up and down like a teeter-totter.

 

 

If you were standing balanced in the middle of a teeter-totter, would it be easier to rock it up and down if your feet were tight together or spread wide apart? Likewise, the wider your stance on your ski, the more your every move on the ski will affect the ski's tip attitude. And when the tip attitude changes, that changes the way the ski turns, accelerates and decelerates. This means the further apart your feet are, the more the ski will react to your every move—including the less than perfect moves, i.e. less forgiveness/stability.

 

It may seem counter-intuitive at first, but the closer your feet are together, the more stable the ski's behavior will be, the more steady your balance will be, and as an added bonus, the easier it will be to get up over your front foot so the ski can behave the way it was designed to behave.

 

There are legitimate reasons for some skiers to move their back binding rearward, so the notion of mounting the bindings as close together as possible can seem a bit "old school." But when in doubt, old school may still be the best school for most skiers.

[ozski]

Interesting point of view skijay. We often hear comparison to snow skiing on this forum but if you consider another water sport that requires balance and stability etc - surfing - then it takes my thinking in another direction altogether. I want to control my ski with minimal input and movement so a slightly wider stance provides a touch more leverage (front to back) over the ski. It works for me at this point in time.

[SkiJay]

@ozski I think the surfboard analogy breaks down for two reasons. The relatively vast surface area of a surfboard makes it a way more stable platform on the water than a ski; and your feet aren't tightly bound to the board with bindings. I agree that a wide stance on a surfboard is the most stable.

[ozski]

Like so many aspects of this sport we are dealing with shades of grey here and things that work for me don't work for the next guy. With regards to boards then yeah a 10 foot Mal is pretty stable but short boards are a different story. Put your feet together on a short board on a decent wave and your swimming. The wide stance provides the stability and control that you need. Clearly you don't go to such extremes on a ski but spacing out your boots a little is not all downside.

[Deep11]

Thats really interesting @skijay - after reading your book I moved my bindings as far apart as possible. The reason was that you talked about "feeling" the balance point of the ski in the approach to the turn in order to understand the changes that you make to set up. I have never knowingly been able to feel where my weight is on the ski (just always trying to "get forward " like everyone else). Spacing the bindings and dropping the speed slightly allowed me to achieve the "feel". Very useful indeed and my video footage shows that i am much further forward in my approach (off and onside) - even with the bindings as far as part as they are (max on the radar sequence plate).

I guess now i've achieved this I should push them back together and try and benefit from what you say should be a more stable position?

 

[SkiJay]

@Deep11 I'm a big believer in "learning by doing." so my answer will usually be "Try it and choose what YOU like best; you can always go back."

 

In this case, my guess would be that your front binding may be too far back making it hard to get as much tip into the water as you'd like. Moving your bindings apart has probably given you more leverage to "pry" the tip of the ski into the water.

 

While this may be working for you, it may also be more about "working" the ski than "riding" it. And the further apart your feet, the more restricted your hip rotation, the more often you'll fall back onto your rear foot, the worse the effects of falling back onto your rear foot (incomplete school bus turns), and probably a less consistent tip attitude in general (everyone is different so results will vary).

 

If you move your bindings forward, and compensate for the accompanying loss of smear and gain of tip-sensitivity with a fin adjustment (reducing FL by ~ 10% of the binding move will get you close), you may find you'll automatically get the tip-engagement you are looking for while avoiding the potential issues that tend to accompany an extra wide stance.

 

... And maybe you'll establish that you just prefer having your feet separated.

[scuppers]

Just a bit off topic - Anyone who is on the Radar Vapor Por Build 67 - where are you running the front binding? Stock ahead or back?

[scuppers]

Oops! I just saw the later topic which covers this.