No equality for women in waterskiing? Why?

[Stillskiing]

I was just curious about the Master's purse; just got home from Callaway.

So, Nate goes home with $8200 for winning Men's slalom. Whitney wins women's slalom, even sets a new course record, gets paid $6795.

I, personally, think it's bullshit. But I'm also trying to figure out why? Did Nautique not get the memo? Or who? Anyone know what's up with this?

[cragginshred]

Serena Williams took this on in tennis many years ago

[ozski]

Whats the purse in the womens jump V mens?

[MattP]

@ozski

 

[RazorRoss3]

So how where the purses funded? Entry fees and sponsors I would guess. Where there more men's entries than women's? We're sponsors able to donate directly to one of the 6 event's purses? Also @MattP, the men's jump total doesn't add right, I get 17450 on my calculator.

[Chad_Scott]

Dana Reed mandated Malibu Open pays equal to the men and women We are keeping with his wishes. Come to Milwaukee enjoy a great city and great event

[MattP]

If im not mistaken the Swiss pro am pays equal, but I will have to check. @Chad_Scott is on the money. Dana had a vision for the Malibu Open and it lives on today with equal pay.

 

@RazorRoss3 I pulled it from IWWFs website. They are not too good with numbers... if you didn't know already.

 

[RazorRoss3]

@OB1, it's not fair either way but for the sake of keeping both men's and women's skiing alive you made the right call

[Stillskiing]

Actually, Billie Jean King took this on in tennis before Serena even was playing pro tennis.

[Stillskiing]

The Masters, Moomba don't rely solely on entry fees, I'm sure. And there seems to be as many women as men. So, why the discrimination against women at the Masters and Moomba? And why am I more concerned than the women competing?

 

And speaking of tennis, how would we get our skiing athletes paid more?

[skibug]

Simple, bigger sponsors and more sponsors equals more money. There in lies the problem.

[ScottScott]

The tennis analogy doesn't necessarily apply, as much of that purse is a result of TV viewership. More viewers watching the mens finals than the womans.

[skihart]

With tennis spectators pay for seats to the event. I am sure that is a large part of the revenue stream.

 

[igkya]

Why should a woman, skiing at 34mph get paid the same as a man skiing at 36mph? There are few sports were men and women could compete on 'equal' terms. Skiing (slalom) could be one of them... why can't/shouldn't professional women ski at 36mph?

[eleeski]

Female skiers are a huge demographic. Enticing them to compete will show just how fun competition can be. It's the easiest way to grow the sport.

 

Waterskiing is unique in that female performances are close to male performances. With some more support and time, who knows?

 

No boat, lake or expensive ski purchase is made without support from the spouse. If they compete, those purchases get easier to make.

 

Eric

[skiermanbrad]

Playing Devil's advocate here.

 

Whitney got 5@39.5 and went home with $6,475.

 

Jason got 1.5@41 and went home with $0.

 

I can see both sides of the argument.

[RazorRoss3]

Someone will be able to claim it is unfair no matter how the event purse is divided up both across events and mens/womens. At the end of the day our sport is not big enough for the luxury of having mens and womens events be individually self sustaining so the two are going to need to share resources and event prizes. Event by event it may look like the scale is tilted one way or the other but long term the sport will be better off if we are all pooling our resources towards a better long term outcome which is more people in the sport. That means both men and women need to be able to walk away with some $$$ in order to show this is a sport for everyone.

[Luzz]

At the cost of being iper-repetitive, here are the IWWF Elite rules (part of point 8.)

Under the guidance of the Athletes Advisory Committee, we tried

to encourage the introduction and development of Elite Tournaments. One of the

barriers has been the minimum purse level. As a trial, we instituted a program

as an "introductory" offer to new tournaments where they can gain Elite status

at a lower purse level given that they will progress and in two years be at the

new standard levels. This translates in to the following schedule:

1st year Mens Event $5000 USD minimum, Womens Event $3000 USD

2nd year Mens Event $8500 USD minimum, Womens Event $6000 USD

3rd year Mens Event $12000 USD minimum, Womens Event $9000 USD

 

The current Elite minimum standards are $12000/9000.

The unequal pay is embedded in the requirements of the only system we currently have that resembles a pro tour. What the organizers of the Malibu Open are doing is remarkable, and deserves to be acclaimed. However, to keep "everyday" organizers like the one who is currently writing encouraged to continue (aka, don't loose too much money), even a $3k difference can be crucial. I am still trying to come up with the necessary $3k to make my event gender equal, but it's no easy task and I can't keep asking money to already-supporting sponsors. Especially since I have less than two weeks to do it :|

 

 

[Ahavn]

I tune in to watch the women just as much as the men. Thees ladies are amazing. It should be equal pay, women train just as hard as the men if not harder than the men. Balancing their career while also having children, etc. Nautique should follow Malibu leadership on this. Dana Reed had it right.

[gregy]

Didn't women get completely drop from the pro tour toward the end? I kinda like watching the women since they ski 34mph as I do.

[slow]

I think it's better to look how athletes get paid when they operate independently. Consider the following

 

PGA vs LPGA

NBA vs WNBA

 

This isn't college sports where title IX applies.

[LeonL]

It's sad to say, but the inequality with regard to compensation exists everywhere. You hear it all the time in the business world, not just athletics.

[MattP]

@gregy yes they did. Jennifer Lapoint started the WOW tour to provide events to women atheletes.

[JordanOz]

@Stillskiing Moomba this year had 19 women for slalom and 35 men - almost double. Hardly just as many women as men. By that logic, the prizemoney should have been just over half that of the Men's, but it was more like 75%.

 

Another scenario perhaps would be if a tournament was on and 20 male skiers turn up and 4 female, is it fair that the women get the same prize money, having not skied to the same speed/line length and there was only 4 entry fees paid as opposed to 20 for the prize pool?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not chauvinistic or sexist despite how this is coming across and I think women accomplish amazing things in their own right as well in all fields - not just sports, but as a person in general, if I don't perform the exact same job with the exact same outcome as another person - female or male, should I expect to be paid the same?

 

This is a dangerous subject with a lot of moving parts, but I disagree with an argument of balancing their career to have children - that is a life choice. It is irrelevant. There is a perception sometimes that some people have a sense of entitlement because they decided to bring another life into world. I see it in the corporate world a bit. If someone wants to get to the top of their chosen field, by all means go out and get there, but if you don't get what you want or where you want to be, don't use having had kids as a reason. It's unfair on the kids.

[Jordan]

@Mark_Matis I don't think that comparing the direct performances between men and women justifies the difference in prize money; not one bit. The women are the best in the world given their physiology, just like the men are the best in the world given their physiology.

 

The argument regarding revenues each group brings in is fair, but really, the whole discussion is symptomatic of just how small the revenues are in our sport.

 

I have often cringed when seeing a picture of Nate on the podium after a mind blowing performance holding on of those giant cheques for $6,000......

[Wish]

Remember the WOW tour? That didn't last long. I'm just glad to see them back in the game at more then just a couple events. As for time on the water training hard and getting recognition financially...trick skiers get screwed. Thinkn a huge discrepancy in purse winning between 3 event vs wakeboard/surf. It is a business to run these events and a business model is what gets used. And let's not forget, some of the top women at the end of the day get big sponsorship in boats and gear over men that could beat them on any given day that have little to none of the sponsors from both on and off the water.

[andjules]

This thread is becoming a mine field, but:

Any purse that is not generated by entry fees is generated by sponsors.

The purse is not a symbol of the winners' athletic value.

The purse is an estimated symbol of the tournament's—and each event's (e.g. women's slalom or men's trick)—to hold attention, create excitement and hopefully drive sales for the sponsors. Like many here, I personally find the women's events very close to the men's in excitement; often higher. But I think if we were able to get good data of the wider crowd, we'd find that the broad-based interest is a little higher in men's slalom and men's jump than anything else, and we'd also find that men over 35 drive purchases of slalom skis and ski boats.

While it may seem off topic (re: gender pay gap), even as a huge trick fan, I'm most surprised by how high the trick purse is, given how few folks—especially in the U.S.—still trick ski, and how few trick skis are sold each year. That said, while participation in tricks is low, it's still a hell of a thing to watch.

[Wish]

To sorta prove @andjules point, during the BD final between Fredrick H and Jeff R, the stands had literally emptied just before. Basically relatives and friends were about all that were in the stands. Athleticism at the highest level was on full display...but to only a few. Full bleachers for both men and women pro devisions.

[bigskieridaho]

Great athletes either way. I think a thread like this just opens a can of worms that starts arguments. Just my .02