Conditions at Worlds

[RichardDoane]

Bakersfield should put in a bid for the 2019 Worlds, sponsored by BOS of course

[Edbrazil]

Half way through Women Jump Series 1, a big delay of some 40 minutes; right

before Regina is to ski. Anybody know why? And then, 2 women get to reride their sets,

delaying Regina even more.

[foxriverat]

Tried to watch the replay of todays event to see womans slalom. All I could find is clips of woman skiers one after another and most clips not even showing the complete pass or any anouncing from 10:11 to 18:51 when it freezes mid pass with Regina. Is that it? 8:41of slalom. The rest jump.

[Edbrazil]

Nice to see that Jacinta is back to kicking butt. In the prelims, 18 feet ahead of 2nd place.

[Wish]

Two sides of a coin I suppose. On one side of the coin, we have States, Reg and Nats at the best sites possible (suspect other counties do the same). Worlds should be in line with that same concept.

 

Other side of the coin the best skier will prevail for what is in front of him or her. In looking at video above, TW seemed to be in much better control then others shown. No idea where he stacked up (most likely top 3) but undoubtedly one of the best skiers period.

 

I think as spectators we see anything less then mid 41 (for men) as disappointing in general and perhaps not worth paying attention to. Like a car race on a wet track. Or alpine in white out conditions. But both examples do vet out the best racer that day and it tells the story of who has trained for those conditions and who has not. Wouldn't they be the best?

 

But even if alpine skiers have to deal with different conditions, I suspect the event organizers know which side of the mountain sucks and which side is better to ski on. So if this sight was known to suck before weather problems then the coin gets flipped back to Worlds should be at the best venues.

[Razorskier1]

Seems like pros have two kinds of tournaments. Record tournaments on great sites where world records are set, and Open Events like the Worlds where it isn't about setting records, but about beating everyone else. It would be cool if big events were held at places that could also allow for world record type scores, but it's probably fine to have the two different types of events.

[Broussard]

@Razorskier1 I agree there there are two types of tournaments, "backyard tournaments" and "pro tournament." The backyard tournaments are your typical Class R tournaments held at private manmade lakes across the country, while the Pro tournaments are typically held in more prominent locations that allow for better exposure at the cost of skiing conditions. However, for a World Championship, I believe that the event should be held in good conditions in order to truly see who the best skier is while allowing the athletes to put up great scores.

[Kelvin]

@foxriverat I broke Day 3 into 2 separate sections:

 

Day 3 - Womens Slalom

Day 3 #2 - Primarily Womens Jump with some Slalom Highlights at the beginning

 

You should be able to see both videos now. While the webcast is live, it is not that obvious that other videos are available.

[foxriverat]

@Kelvin Thank you

[Killer]

@Edbrazil well, Regina put out a massive jump so it didn't seem to bother her.

 

[Horton]

@Killer lighten up

[Edbrazil]

Regina has regularly posted distances of 170 and more. 178 at this year's Masters, which

is a site with busy water. But, quite a feat to ski well after all the delay.

[eleeski]

Alpine skiing gives the top 20 seeds the best conditions. First run is random, second run in reverse order. Sometimes early is an advantage, sometimes late helps. But the course is not destroyed for any of the top seeds. Weather is also quite variable (in the mountains in winter?!). So dealing with less than perfect conditions is part of the sport.

 

Blaming IWWF for less than perfect conditions is pretty harsh. Especially when you are measuring against Bakersfield perfect conditions. These are the sites people train and compete at in their home region - when they aren't in Florida. Look at @Horton 's reaction to the suggestion that Bakersfield host the worlds - John, you lighten up on IWWF or step up and put in a bid.

 

Athletes are performers. Sure they want the best conditions but you take what you get. Like whitecaps at Okeheelee Nationals (yes it's happened to me). The nature of a world tournament will avoid the risks of chasing a world record there in favor of going for the win. So the measurement is against your competitors, not the record books. Enjoy the tournament whatever the scores are.

 

Florida is under evacuation orders. Texas is in a state of emergency. Our premier sites are worse than almost anywhere else in the world. Except Bakersfield which refuses to host major tournaments but gripes and boycotts the others. Apologies to the many hard working officials and talented skiers who do travel - this was aimed at @Horton and a small few who vocally don't participate.

 

The travel is fun. Dealing with the conditions (including jet lag, foreign food, hotel beds, peeing while some official stranger watches, etc. along with the water) is part of the challenge of international competition.

 

There seem to be a few good performances. Cool!

 

Eric

[Edbrazil]

After the Men Slalom prelims, a prediction by one of them is still holding. That is, he

predicted that no one would run 39 off.

[bwreinke]

Putting these events on private controlled environments isn't the answer either. Individuals shouldn't be concerned with running pb's. Sure we'd all love to watch 41 go down, but I'm more interested in seeing who can handle terrible conditions and get through 38. It's a change and I completely dig it.

 

Later.

[MAD11]

Watched the webcast this morning for slalom. Sure looked like ridiculous conditions. I will say you don't often see Nate get crushed and blow the tail like he did on a massive roller, or top guys doing 28 off starts. If that's the stuff they were going for with this event they are succeeding. Not sure that's what I wanted to watch though.

[Horton]

@eleeski I will bid for World's right after you do.

 

Your accusations about Bakersfield are hysterically stupid. We simply don't have more than a handful of people that are committed to skiing and those handful of people work their butts off doing what they can for the good of the sport.

 

[Chad_Scott]

@MAD11

I am with you. These are not competitive conditions. It's ridiculous to let skiers train for 2 years for this event and host it with these conditions. There are no spectators on site so it's certainly not putting athletes in front of a moomba size crowd. Much better places to hold a world championship. I would be ok with this location if it was in front of a crowd. But a backyard worlds in crap conditions. Doesn't make much sense. Like to see Nate Will and Freddy battle it out at 41 and 43. Nate was doing donuts in his boat to rough up lake roper. Was running 41 in rolly water. So imagine how crappy if no one ran 39

[Edbrazil]

News just posted: Today's Men Series 2 & 1 postponed for safety reasons. Wonder if it

is wind or some other reason.

[Skoot1123]

A couple ways to look at this:

 

Roll with it.

 

Yes, everyone has the same conditions so conditions are "even" across the board though there could be subtle differences with wind and sun being a factor.

 

For the competitors and those attending it is a bummer they may see their favorite skier fall or get bounced out by a roller. In the sense of great competition it may not be the best, but as someone who was looking forward to the Malibu Open and it being canceled, I would rather watch a tournament than not.

[Horton]

It's not the same for everybody because series 1 & 2 skied a couple of days after everybody else.

[eleeski]

Sorry @Horton . And I do know the hard working people in Bakersfield. Thanks to all of them (and I count you as one of them).

 

Why do I hear so often that "Nationals will never come back!"?

 

Eric

[Horton]

@eleeski I am not an owner at Ski West or at Paradise so I can not speak to the situation with the two lakes that have hosted Nationals previously in Bakersfield.

 

When are you going to put your bid in for Nationals for your lake?

[andjules]

This thread encourages black-and-white thinking. I think it's a little more nuanced than that. To the extent that random roller patterns mean it's NOT the same for each skier, yes, that's a problem. But less-than-ideal conditions? it's good and bad.

 

At a tournament in perfect conditions, the only unpredictable part is the mental game: consistency, who is able to perform on a given day, under pressure. There's the occasional upset, but over a bunch of such tournaments, we get a sense of where the top skiers stand in relation to each other.

 

At a tournament in challenging conditions, there are more unpredictable elements: whose skillset is more adaptable? Whose mental game is more easily thrown by the disappointing conditions? Some skiers are more disciplined about developing the skills to handle adverse conditions. This Worlds will be particularly hard on skiers who didn't.

 

As a spectator, the unpredictability and greater chance of upsets adds to the drama. I feel terrible seeing Travers, Neveu and Detrick down in the 30s. But I'm pumped to see two series-3 skiers in the top 6 (who the heck is Marek Mlynek and where did he learn to run 3 @ -39 in rollers?)

[Chad_Scott]

@Skoot1123 come to Charleston. Great city and hopefully will be a great event Conditions should be awesome. Back in the day it was magic. So come on out

[UWSkier]

It is pretty crazy to see the list of names who didn't even make it through 35 off...

[MattP]

I was watching some video. Looked like some strong wind straight down the course throwing some pretty big rollers. That would mitigate the backwash issues but causes others.

[Kelvin]

@UWSkier Some of those went out at 32off and opted up to 38off coming back in the headwind.

[liquid d]

Okeeheelee should be about a 120 mph head/tail on the main course this weekend, so not much better.

[lcarnes]

I voted for "insult" but agree with those who say it's more nuanced. I can't think of another sport where the top athletes in their "world class events" compete in little league conditions. Example: The US Open (tennis) is happening this week on a big stage, not on a random cement court.

 

Outdoor sports by definition create conditions that require athletes to adapt. However, let's start at a location designed to showcase (and respect) the athlete. If the weather conditions are horrible on the day of competition, so be it. But start in a venue that respects the sport.

 

What concerns me most about our sport is that we are so desperate to get eyeballs that we have to make the trade-off to ski in horrible conditions to get an audience. It's ironic that the most addictive sport I've ever experienced is having this problem.

 

I applaud the efforts of many to find ways to bring the sport back - it is going to take new thinking to make it happen.

 

 

[wskier]

keith2oskier I was at board stock I help put in the slalom coarse. It was a four bouy coarse after the first round the skiers decide no gates. Jamie B won Beushea won but did not use the gates. Terry Winter went threw gates and lost by a 1/2 bouy. I think all the pros spilt the prize money. I ask Jamie what he thought about the conditions he said any body can ski in perfect conditions. I'd rather ski in front of 100,00 people. They all said it was there favorite tournament ever the place was crazy. Kid rock flew in on a helicopter & right behind him another helicopter flew in with Pamela Anderson. I got about half the skiers back stage to meet him & her. Marcus Brown did a great job getting all the top pros their. Sad to say the organizer Rob Stimmel died in a on his way to his honeymoon plane crash. He met her at board stock, I knew both great people.

[Than_Bogan]

@Chad_Scott Are you not driving for worlds? That's almost as insulting to the skiers as the bad conditions! :)

 

[This is humor, people. I do not know who is actually driving and they are probably awesome.]

[ntx]

@Than_Bogan pretty sure you would not recognize the name of any of the 4 or 5 drivers at the event. Maybe Botas or Pigozzi. It gets very political at that level of events. My experience at iwwf events is that some of the drivers are....... Well lets just say that some class c have better pulls. Sad really. Kind of like the site conditions. Maybe the new president of the federatIon can improve things

[Chad_Scott]

@Than_Bogan Thanks for those comments. Political to say the least. I do not think I have a membership card into that club of drivers. I do know Mario Pigozzi is one of the drivers. Had the chance to drive with him in Italy and at Swiss. He's a great and well deserving driver. Does a great job at the wheel

[Edbrazil]

Women Slalom just settled. Regina and Whitney had a runoff for 1st place, and yet one

more runoff, after tying again at 39 off. This may be a record, of sorts, for a Worlds. Not

a "record" for most tie runoffs, though. Men Slalom at an Orlando Tour stop at OWC had

to go to something like 4 or 5 runoffs into 41 off. Wade vs. Andy.

[lpskier]

I was at that event. Great excitement, ending with Andy having an incredible wreck.

[ALPJr]

Womens jump seems to be going well.

[LLUSA]

@Than_Bogan AWSA has a process you go through to drive Worlds, those drivers that meet requirements must submit their name to IAC for consideration, for this Worlds Lester Todd and Gordon West were the US choices, can't argue with that. It's up to IWWF to choose who they want. I know all of these drivers and they all are very good, excellent Chief in Ricardo Botas.

[Jody_Seal]

Check out the team scores, team Netherlands has list a member School Freak!

Must be a jumper!

 

30

NED Netherlands (50)

Owel Sabrina*

School Freek

[chris55]

I am very curious what the athletes think about the conditions. When you come all the way to France across the Atlantic and even further coming from Australia and skiing in these conditions....going down at 38off or missing the first run in final for Marion Costard.....how do they feel aobut it ???? Can they say something ? Did Chris not ski because of the conditions ?

And last but not least, athletes can injures themselves and could be an issue too.....safety in theses conditions are not very good I think.

World championship deserve better conditions IMO

[kc]

@Jody_Seal The listing is by last name first. His name is Freek School! I've seen his name in international events before. Definitely got my attention.

[disland]

The webcast with the drone view and all the angles is excellent

[BraceMaker]

@chris55 at least no algae blooms.

[brody]

As a spectator it's always great to see someone other than the usual win. As a Canadian, it's awesome to see jmac on the podium. But when the guy who has run the most 41 offs in history not run 35, that's an issue!!!

[Edbrazil]

Well, with the Men Slalom Finals over, my friend from Series 3 didn't quite get it right

when he predicted no man would run 39, as Freddy Winter did on the way to a win. Still

he had the only 39 of the Men. But, even stranger is that Nate Smith did NOT run 35 off

in the Finals, and finished 12th. The last time he even missed 38 was in one round of one

tournament back in 2014. (In another round, he ran 2 @ 41).

[GaryWilkinson]

Incredible during this time that they picked such an unworthy site.

 

When competing in the 90's we had our nationals at Brandon Manitoba. We woke to gale force winds and could not run the finals at all. No disrespect to the really great people of Brandon, they were fantastic hosts, great time, terrific venue except for one thing. The lake was not suited at all for waterskiing. I recall the CWSA at that time deciding to never have another nationals at an inferior site. Our standing in world rankings, athletes bursaries, and endorsements contracts are contingent on performances at big tournaments and at this time we took a big in those areas.

 

There are enough great, world class sites out there that we should not have to see this level of poor (sub-par) not even average results again.

How would we even be considered for tv broadcasts again?

I was the colour commentary guy for our nationals one year in Sherbrooke and Susi Graham skied a national record in slalom! That's how it should have went, Nate Biting 3 ball and turning for 4!

 

Not seeing who could survive past -39 off.

[MillerTime38]

Waterskiing back on TV, someone give that man a panda

[Horton]

To all you guys that said it's a fair contest I have to ask if the crash of Manon at 28 off, the fact that Will Asher actually zeroed in the prelims and the fact that Nate Smith missed 35 off in the finals changed your mind at all?

[skibug]

Nope!

[MillerTime38]

Nope, as long as all the skiers skied in shitty conditions that is fair. @FWinter ran 39, sounds like these guys should have done some homework on the lake and practiced in rough conditions.