Robert Pigozzi & Sacha Descuns Run 41 at the Botaski ProAm/Big Dawg!

[MattP]

Robert Pigozzi & Sacha Descuns have joined the elite list of skiers who have run 41@36.

 

1. Jeff Rogers - 1997

2. Andy Mapple - 1998

Ben Favret - 2002 - Boat Path Issue

3. Jamie Beaushane - 2003

4. Chris Parrish - 2005

5. Will Asher - 2008

*Thomas Degasperi - 2009

6. Nate Smith - 2010

7. Jon Travers - 2012

8. Freddie Winter - 2014

9. Corey Vaughn - 2015

10. Robert Pigozzi - 2018

11. Sacha Descuns - 2018 I have a thread that Sacha ran 41 in 2016 Thread HERE was this score ever confirmed? If so I will update the list.

 

 

 

* In a runoff. Does not count as an official score

[MattP]

Some great scores from others attending as well. This event is being pulled by the new Nautique

 

[Wish]

Pagosi has the most buzzar lookn gate set up but man can he ski !!

 

 

[Andre]

Videos ? Webcast ? Anything ?

 

Edit :I'm sure you would have linked it...

Stupid me...

[ozski]

And Reflex joins the 41 club!.

[APB]

Pagosi is a beast. Damn!!

[Chef23]

Very cool. Awesome skiing.

[RazorRoss3]

Top 2 into 43

Top 4 to or past 5 at 41

Top 5 beyond half way down 41

that's some insane skiing

[The_MS]

Must be the new Nautique

[reeeeeshhhy]

this kid is the NEW GENERATION of Slalom! youngest kid to ran 41?

[MattP]

@reeeeeshhhy I think Nate was 19 when he ran 41 the first time. He is 27 now. I think Robert is 21ish.

[DanE]

Right now Will in 4th place with a score of 0.5@43.

One skier to go.

[Horton]

There is not a skier in this field I am not cheering for but something is wrong here.

 

I know I am about to get a SH*T Ton of hate for saying it but these scores are not real. Something is out of spec.

 

All four of the guys that ran 41 are 100% capable of it but for there to be that many 41s in one event is HIGHLY unlikely. Skiers at the event flat out told me is was not legit.

 

 

 

 

 

[DanE]

 

[Andre]

That tournament would have made for a great webcast.

@Horton That s a big affirmation you re making. Whats not legit. Course,speed ,driving,ropes ? Who told you what?

2 week ends in arow that scores are suspected to be not legit...

[MattP]

@Horton everyone runs 38 on the internet but pros at a record event are not allowed to run 41?!

[chris55]

@Horton it is okay to make this comment but I think it deserves some rational explanation. The tournament is in Spain, pretty far away from the States so who told you it was not legit and/or what is wrong ? Boat pass ? Boat ? Someting else ?

Will and JT they have been knocking on that door very often this year (completing the 41off) so why not ?

[Drago]

Trick mode?

[Horton]

Inflated scores are an embarrassing mess for all involved. The skiers do not want to be quoted as saying something is wrong but let me be clear “I am saying something is wrong because skiers on site have said to me that something is clearly wrong.” When I heard Pigozzi ran 41 I was stoked for him and I am a total closet fan boy for Asher so I am always happy when he skis well. Clearly JT and TGas are capable. When I say these scores are strangely inflated, believe me when I say I am not happy about it. It sucks for all involved. Few true athletes want scores that are not real.

 

Facts are: The site is short at one end – I have been told this is the end where most of the 41s start. The conditions are not bad but not epic. The skiers do not believe the scores are real. Never in history has there been four 41s run in one event WITHOUT Smith.

 

[Horton]

@chris55 I am yet to get an answer to what is off. We may never know. The consensus seems to be that 41 is just too easy.

[Horton]

last thing...

I do not make accusations casually. If any one of the Pro skiers disagrees they can contact me off line and I will retract the accusation.

[MattP]

@Horton do the big dawg scores look inflated as well? The Botas family are well respected in the sport and have hosted many big events. I doubt they are doing anything on purpose.

[MillerTime38]

If Nate was there he may have run 43 off

[LeonL]

The Big Dawg scores don't look off by much. Don't know Draux but that's a big score. Newby-Ricci is capable of 2@41, we know Sund is ok at 2@41. Hintringer is at his max pretty much with 4.5@39. Bob Marking seems to have the only score that's remarkable. 5@39 twice with a ranking average of 101.75.

Hey guys, @horton is just relaying info provided to him from skier(s) on site. They would not speak of this lightly, nor would @Horton repeat it unless it came from a reputable source. As @Horton said it's a mess for everyone.

[addkerr]

Unless otherwise announced that a mistake has been made I really dont think it is fair to start bashing a site. Not sure if you are aware of the serious lack of pro events around the world. If anyone has the effort to put on a pro event please make the effort to support them, theres only a few of us left in this sport .If zero off has gone funky or a course asjustment has been made wrong then im sure it will come out, and we can move on. Would you question these result from a US site like swiss? I dont think so.

[JAS]

Wow! Now that’s the type of news I like to read ! Will be interesting to get this groups perspective on New Nautique. The one thing that makes a pro a pro is their ability to do what needs to be done is to make the best of circumstances. Maybe they have figured Nautique out faster than the old boys.

[WoodySkier]

Low scores one week and people pile on Nautique, but then great scores the next and must not be legit neither based on any sort of real evidence, and the opinion coming from people affiliated with MasterCraft. Can’t people admit that both companies make great boats? It makes this place insufferable sometimes.

[Deep11]

Our “ man on the ground “ at the event reports that skiers were having issues on Thursday - boat was tweaked and reports from skiers after are that its a different beast. Interesting.

FWIW homologated and all times are legit with world class drivers as you would expect. Looks like the boat gets it done at the top end :)

[rico]

running 41 for any of those skiers is a rare thing. 4 skiers running 41 at the same event is amazing.

[ozski]

Just maybe Nautique knows a thing or two about building a boat that will take scores to the next level. Congrats to the skiers that ran 10.25, awesome skiing.

[LeonL]

@addkerr and @WoodySkier maybe you should retread @Horton 's post. He said "skiers" told him something wasn't right. 41 was too easy. "Real evidence"? Skiers saying it themselves. Would we question these results from a US site like Swiss? Again the skiers are questioning the results. I don't think anyone is bashing a site.

[addkerr]

@LeonL a forum post doesn’t count as real evidence in my opinion. As i said if it comes out officially then thats ok we move on. Making assumptions based upon the heresay of someone else is rediclous. I ran 43 off once. Do you believe that or would you like evidence tather than a forum post.

[LeonL]

@addkerr I guess you're right. There's no way that I can be sure that John Horton actually put up the post quoting skiers who were on site and skied it. But, if in fact @Horton made the post and we believe he conveyed what he was told, and the "skiers" who told him are to be believed, all we have to do is accept that anonymous "skiers" said to @Horton "something is clearly wrong". We don't need hard evidence to believe what the skiers said. To do otherwise is to doubt their integrity. What would be their motive? No one may ever know what is wrong, but pro skiers know when something ain't right and its unlikely they can provide "evidence". But hey, no hard feelings. We just disagree.

[Kelvin]

From Pigozzi's Twitter photos and Traver's instagram feed, it doesn't sound like they believe "something is clearly wrong".

[ozski]

There was a bit of negative stuff going around when Sasha ran 10.25 and it was not done in the US and now we have this thread taking that direction which is pretty sad in my opinion. All the skiers that posted big scores are capable of doing so and they did it behind the new Nautique which has been designed and delivered to raise the bar at the pointy end of slalom. I wonder how this conversation would be going if Nate was skiing and the world record went down - outside of the US.

[ballsohard]

I say that these same skiers should ski behind a "properly set up" Ski Nautique at trophy lakes and we should see if the scores are the same or very very different.

[ballsohard]

How do I sign up to ski here? I want to destroy my PB with my eyes closed!

[ozski]

@ballsohard That type of comment and attitude is exactly the problem, imagine if those type of comments were coming back from the other side of the pond... It is possible to get a boat and course setup outside of the US.

[JAS]

So what are we really talking about? I assume boat times are good. With that many great scores it seems unlikely that rope length is the culprit. That leaves the course out of spec or boat path? What’s the word on the street? Maybe, just maybe a historic day for waterskiing. Hoping for the last. Sounds like a great competition!!

[skierjp]

@ballsohard if you only new the history of Trophy Lakes you would remove that statement

[skibug]

@Horton and whomever else has this inside track; When you all say "skiers" at the site are saying something is off....are the "skiers" those which have actually run the 10.25 (41) or other skiers that are just there as witnesses?

[Horton]

@skibug if I did not 100% trust my sources I would not have posted to begin with.

[Edbrazil]

Thanks to MattP for keeping track of the full 41 statistics. Now, I wonder how many skiers in the Olde Daze have run the full course at top division speed, which was 34 mph at the time, on TWO skis. This would get back into the 1950s. Expect this is a small number, maybe 6 or 8 skiers at most. There were several dedicated 2-ski slalomers. Warren Witherell finally conclusively showed that 1 ski was the way to go.

[ballsohard]

How can all of these skiers have a magical day at the same event? Impossible...no, astronomically improbable...yes.

[APB]

So much skepticism and hate. God job dudes.... you all did it at a world class pro event. Can’t wait to see who backs it up! Is the nautique really that big of a piece?.... I’m guessing not. Nor was the rope lengths, course or driver.

[APB]

Let’s question every great score in the history of waterskiing while we are at it. Who are you guys gonna put on the chopping block next? Mapple?

[Than_Bogan]

Four 41's in a day really says very little: Even when measuring things that are uniformly random, clustering is far more common than people expect. See anecdote below if bored. When results are correlated (say because the conditions people are skiing in is the same), then clustering is even more common.

 

The skiers themselves saying there might be a problem is an entirely different story. But I would love to hear some specific theory, because times, rope lengths, buoy positions, and end course video are extremely tightly controlled at an R. Where could the advantage come from? Is a finely tuned 2019 Nautique just crazy easy at 36??

 

To demonstrate people's poor intuition about clustering, try this: Write down a sequence of 100 heads and tails that you're trying to make look random. Then take an actual coin and flip it 100 times and write down the sequence. If you hand these to me, I will easily be able to determine which one is real: it's the one that contains long runs of consecutive heads or consecutive tails. Those don't "feel" random so people won't put those in their fake sequences. But true random sequence exhibit substantial clusters!

[Ilivetoski]

It sounds like the issues with the new Ski Nautique have been at 34, I haven’t heard of or read of any issues at 36

[Drago]

@Live2ski Try to keep up:It's complete trash @ 34 (55 in Florida) and way too easy @ 36 (58 in Spain)

[ozski]

@Drago Any feedback from the ladies skiing at 34? Complete trash is a pretty big call.