Measures your ropes

[WIRiverRat]

Was out skiing behind a buddies new boat the other week and noticed it was significantly harder than normal. Was really having a hard time running 28off which is usually a gimme pass.

The other day he took two kids out skiing at the same time and noticed one rope was significantly shorter than the other while using the same model rope from the same manufacturer. So they took a tape measure to it and found out the rope we were using was 7ft short.

This was the top of the line rope from a very reputable manufacturer. I have not measured my ropes in year, just assuming they were all correct as I had not seen an out of tolerance rope in a long time.

So next time you are struggling with a pass go ahead and just blame it on the short rope.

[klindy]

That sounds like a loop or two is missing. Or someone took off the mainline section instead of the longline section at some point. At least something as simple.

 

Measuring your rope is always good to do. They are typically close but may need some tweaking especially after they are skied on a few times. To be 7’ off is far more likely a goof at the dock removing/reattaching the wrong section rather than a manufacturing error.

[jpattigr]

I had the same issue last year! Black main line and short one 7 ft section. I contacted the company and they replaced it. I ski at 2 different lakes and have a mainline for each, thought one lake was way harder to ski!

[The_MS]

Always use my own rope and handle unless it is at tournament lake for practice then I use supplied rope

[Edbrazil]

Back in the Tour-ing days, I was responsible for checking the towlines during the event setup, and keeping an eye on them for signs of significant wear. At one event, we were supplied with new lines. I checked one, and it was about a full meter long. Seems that the company supplied 2 types of lines: one with loops down to 38 off (11.25m), and their top one, with added loops at 10.75m ("39") and 10.25m ("41). Seems that one of those lines had gotten matched up with the leader section for their other type line.

Fortunately, found and fixed before the event, or about everyone would have been running 41 in the prelims.

[Than_Bogan]

Barely on topic, but I've found that all manufacturers ropes simply vary in length. 6" probably doesn't matter at -28, but can be a big deal for the shortest lengths. So I recommend measuring all ropes and being prepared to change their length. But take a few sets on them first because the length does change during break-in (and actually can change over the winter sometimes as well).

[Drago]

What @MS said.

In the last 15 years measuring personal and tournament ropes, not one MasterLine has been out of tolerance (3" +\- @ -38, @Than_Bogan )

[LeonL]

I was at a tournament recently and due unknown reasons the ropes were getting measured just prior to the scheduled start time. I watched as two ropes by a well known mfg. were rejected. Weren't far off and could be adjusted but not on such short notice. Pulled out a Masterline and it was near perfect.

I would think if a rope was off by 7' you'd be suspect instead of blaming yourself. Makes 28 into 35. Pretty significant change. I think I'd notice when the boat tightened up before start.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

I guess I have different opinion on “reputable manufacturer”. N-tow and Masterline are the only ones I would put in that category - you can take their ropes to the bank 99% of the time. Any other manufacturer is a crapshoot.

[The_MS]

Plus if you ski bad or have a funny pull you can rule out rope issue if you have your own

[ALPJr]

I bought a rope from a guy at a tourney back in '95. He hand made them, best materials, custom colors etc. Took me about a month to figure out that the -28 loop was about 3 ft short. Starting buying from InTow about 10 years ago and all is good.

[Andre]

True story.

I once fell at 5 ball @35 off (which i have never run in my life) because i couldn' t beleive how easy the pass suddenly was.

My scrooge of ski partner (who bought a brand new prostar in 06) is so cheap that he bought a no name rope made in china that was 4 feet long @35...

Got my Olfa out and cut his rope.

[klindy]

are nearly perfect every time. Thanks @mlusa

[Than_Bogan]

I gotta be measuring ropes wrong. I can't imagine how -- it ain't exactly rocket science. But I buy from these top folks and I simply do not find them reliably in tolerance, much less within the 0.5" that I really want all my ropes to be. They're great ropes and they last, but it's more unusual if I don't have to adjust one.

 

Maybe the insane New England weather does something to 'em? :)

[klindy]

@Than_Bogan The easiest way to make sure you're measuring them correctly is to use a metric tape. Use a "squeeze" type clamp with rubber jaws to clamp the measuring tape to the handle end of the rope where the inside of the loop is aligned with the 1.5m (4'-11") mark on the tape. Then with a rope held taught using 44lbs (20kg) of force measure to the inside edge of each loop. Pay attention to which edge of the loop your using. Should be "outside to outside", in other words, the longest possible inside the loops for each length.

 

If you're not using 44lbs of force to stretch the rope when you measure it, it'll be short every time. I've measured literally hundreds of ropes and my experience is the same at @Drago and @Bruce_Butterfield above. It's rare to find one out of tolerance. Most of the time I'm trying to find the two or three ropes which are closest to the same so they are functional equivalents. Any adjustments are typically to make them closer to the same and not to get them in tolerance. I can't recall the last time I've had to actually re-knot the loop due to being that far off actual.

[Than_Bogan]

Thanks! I sure think I'm doing all of that or something equivalent... I've even busted out an actual scale a few times to be sure I wasn't being too cavalier about the tension, but found that the change in rope length between 30 lbs and 60 lbs was nearly negligible and that exactly 44 lbs got the same results as just leaning on it.

 

If I got to the point where "inside" vs. "outside" of the loop was significant, I'd be happy for my purposes. The errors I find are often more than 4 inches (i.e. 7 inches from actual). And while too-short has been more common in the last couple of years, I've also seen too-long by large amounts.

 

Let's take Masterline as an example just because they're a huge and reputable force in rope-making. If you get one of their ropes, what do you do with it (or to it) before you measure it? I don't think I've ever had one measure correctly before using it a few times.

 

I'm just trying to gather data to solve this mystery.

 

Would anybody be interested in me sending you a rope or two and you measuring it for me? I've done this locally and my buddies get the same results I do. But I'd love to get confirmation from a National-level expert who also claims to almost never find them out of tolerance. PM me if willing.

[dbutcher]

I believe that the high end Masterline ropes are pre-stretched before they reach a consumer. I buy nothing but Masterline ropes, but I buy the white ones that only shorten to 39.5 off. They are made from the same material as the high end ropes but are not pre-stretched. I always measure my ropes under 45 lbs of weight before use. They are always short. I ski my ropes 5 sets and re-measure. They are always so close to actual it amazes me. I measure again after a few months of use, and they have not changed more than 1 cm - always well with tolerance at every length. Temperature will make a couple centimeters difference in a rope also. Hotter equals longer, cooler shorter. A rope that sits unused over the winter will be a little shorter than it was on its last summer use. However, after one use, it will be back to normal. An old rope that has been used a lot will feel like a steel cable. It has lost most of its stretch, and most skiers like a little stretch. Stretching a new rope between a truck and a tree is a waste of time. A new rope should be stretched by skiing and using every shortening loop (at least for a pull up or two). Then measure again. Just my opinion.

[lpskier]

If your friend’s rope is seven feet short, see if it’s missing the 22 off section. That section is... seven feet long.

[Gar]

In Tow is the only way to go!!

[WIRiverRat]

I will have to check his rope personally, but I was told they laid to two ropes side by side and all the sections where there, some were just shorter than others. It just made me realize I had not checked any of my ropes in nearly ten years and assumed many skiers like myself had not measured theirs either. It is good practice to always measure. Hearing how others stretch and measure their ropes is a good lesson.

[Edbrazil]

A bit off-topic, but I like the 'trick' that high-end skiers tend to use. Their personal towlines don't have 15 off or 22 off, and maybe not 28 off. Someone asks to use your towline? Oh, sure, here you go, heh-heh-heh. Think I remember Mark Crone first doing this with his personal line, many moons ago.

[skialex]

Always measure my ropes, also measure and adjust ropes for fellow skiers or for tournaments.

Masterlines are almost always spot on or within tolerance. They worth the extra bucks.

Knotless are a bit pain in the rear to adjust, so are not my favorite.

I’ve seen longer, shorter, issues on only one section, or only on the mainline etc.

don’t assume that your rope is right because it was bought new, always measure, same thing with fins and boots.

[tjs1295]

I must have gotten the only Masterline that wasn't perfect. Free skiing one day, and wanted to try 32' off. Shortened the rope, and it said 41' off. Thought that was odd. Shortened the rope a little more, and it said 35' off. Finally got the tape measure out to see what was going on. 32' off was labeled as 41' off. Even funnier because the rope I bought doesn't have a loop for 41'off. Shortest is 39.5. Must have been a Friday rope.

[skialex]

@tjs1295 I think most skiers would never have noticed this :)

[LeonL]

@tjs1295 I have to ask, despite the mislabel was it accurate in length?

[Deanoski]

35 dallar rope or 120 dollar rope better check it if your running the coarse They are all off 2-4inches at -35 -38 is huge

[tjs1295]

Yes LeonL, the length was accurate. I almost always ski at 15' off, so it's no big deal for me.

[Drago]

First thing I do is cut those rubber sleeves off

[thompjs]

I see a lot of variation in ropes. Sometimes they stretch out after hard use in a tournament and have to be shortened and sometimes not.

 

Occasionally I've seen the wrong end piece on a brand new rope and they will be off significantly.

 

Ropes for tournaments for high end slalom should be about an inch short of actual at the start. Measuring a rope right after someone sets a record you will see it probably just past actual.

 

 

[bishop8950]

I recently got 3 new ML Pro ropes. We skied them each about 10 rides and measured and they were all in tolerance. We did adjust the mainlines only by 5-10cm and then they were perfect. We used them in a tournament and after 50-75 rides they were still money.

[teammalibu]

Always use a steel tape ask any concrete forming guy or framing carpenter how much composite tapes stretch! At 24 meters they are worthless!

[dave2ball]

Masterline prestreaches and remeasures there ropes prior to shipping. Can’t say that for any others. Many of the ski companies ropes are made in China. What type of quality control is there? I have seen in tow quality and sorry but it does not measure up to Masterline. I cannot comment on the accuracy of the in tow rope. Regardless of what rope you use the length a new rope needs to be check prior to first use.

[BraceMaker]

It is surprising that as a sport there arent calibrated standards. In machining you buy gauge blocks. They could make stainless cables with crimps at the actuals that had eyelets so you could hook em to a fixed object pull your line tight and inspect no ackward measurements or addition needed. Spool it up between uses.

[Drago]

Um, there are standards. If you are measuring for a tournament you need to write down the actual number, so the cable idea wouldn’t really help. I labeled a tape: Minimum/Actual/Max, with color-coded sharpies. Been using it for 20 years. Done in 1 minute

[igkya]

@dave2ball What was wrong with the InTow ropes?

[BraceMaker]

@Drago sorry I know there is a specification for length and tolerance. In measurement/machining/science/etc. a standard is a physical item that represents the correct size. There is a literal master standard that weighs 1kg and from that standard kg all other kg's are compared. Same thing with the atomic clock, what is the standard second to set time globally. From those master standards there are manufactured standards to difference tolerance and expense depending on how much money and how much tolerance one would need.

 

So I was directing this more at the masses, sure the tournament scene can measure the rope and record measurements etc. etc. But a strung cable onsite would allow anyone to string up their rope and with no measurements taken say this rope is in tolerance. And would be not error prone.

[Drago]

Ah, might be a little overkill. Can mark actuals on the dock.

I'm surprised we don't have to video ourselves measuring

[klindy]

@BraceMaker overkill for sure. All other clocks are ultimately calibrated to the atomic clock for sure but not literally. Satellite, radar systems and perhaps the New Years ball in Times Square might be literally calibrated directly, but my “VCR” (DVR whatever) aligned with the clock on the wall in the kitchen is plenty close.

 

But what you’re saying is that a store bought tape measure isn’t accurate enough. Suppose it’s possible the tape is off too but if you’re in doubt measure it against another’s one to look for consistency. And as @teammalibu said, a steel tape doesn’t stretch. However I’ll suggest any metric taped used properly is fine. Marking the actials and toloerances on the tape helps speed things up.

[georgea0731]

I had the loop broke recently, I went to get a section from another rope. I found the correct length in a different color. The right color was slightly shorter, -22 section (7 feet) vs -28 (6 feet). Original had faded, but the its original color wasn't much different, looked orange vs red. Right rope section broke, middle rope replaced (notice color difference), left rope is shorter and looks like the right color.

 

[savaiusini]

(shameless product plug)

For those that don't know...

Don't let the price fool you...At $59.99 our Syndicate Knotless Mainline is a world-class rope at half the price of the competition. Ropes can have a huge effect on skiing performance. Obviously accurate lengths at each section are critical, but too much stretch and you lose energy out of the turn; not enough stretch and your body pays a price. Our round spiral weave is designed to minimize rope twist and retain less water.

 

Before we ship these ropes, each one is unpackaged, pre-stretched and re-measured at our warehouse in Snoqualmie, WA. These ropes are guaranteed accurate or we'll replace it free. I would invite anyone here to try this rope and put it to the test.

[APB]

My last rope was an accurate. I loved it. The handle was so good.

[Garn]

I know this isn't important but I love the black color of the HO Syndicate rope.

[Kelvin]

@savaiusini the loops on the handle end of the rope need to be much larger to accommodate easy handle switching at tournaments. It’s fine for a single user, but not great at tournaments.

[savaiusini]

@Kelvin Totally hear you on that... We have lengthened the handle loop for the 2019 model year as we have had this same feedback a few times over the years. B)

[klindy]

I’m still interested in @teammalibu experiment measuring a twisted rope. Mike, did you get a chance to measure the same rope after you’ve twisted it up?

[teammalibu]

@klindy no got caught up in tourney prep and never got back to it!

[ski6jones]

@teammalibu @klindy I'll measure my rope tonight with and without twists and report back tomorrow, weather permitting.

[C5Quest]

How can I adjust a ML slide loop rope? I measured it against a brand new ML progressor rope and a buddy’s ML Dlx mainline this morning. The loops seemed to Line up on the 3 ropes except for a few that were a inch or 2 off but my Slide loop was about 6-7 inches longer. It seems to be at the white section that attaches to the handle. Maybe streched at the loop? I’ve been using this rope since last season. Has about 150 ish sets on it. Should I send it back to ML and have them adjust it? The construction is braided in or interwoven so not familiar with now I should do it. I need to measure with tape measure also and not just compare to other ropes.

[Than_Bogan]

Because the white section to the handle is by far the longest section, it's almost always the one that needs adjustment. (I actually don't think I've ever had to adjust any other section.) You can adjust the length of that section over at the handle end, where (I believe) all ropes use the relatively simple loop construction that is "sorta" adjustable (with a fid and understanding of how to do it).

[C5Quest]

Kind of what I was think. Maybe just add a couple knots to the white loop end where it’s tied off?