New extremely portable slalom course

[ErikBerghiller]

@KRoundy If you have not gotten ahold of anybody yet, shoot me an email and I will try to arrange something. erik@rodicsinnovation.com

 

@DHski The OffCourse™ operates via its own GPS, measuring speed over ground to calculate the distance between markings that are always triggered with a 134,5 feet distance in default mode. So, just as @BraceMaker points out it will not be off by distance but by feel if used in current just like a fixed course would be.

 

The neat thing with the OffCourse is that you actually can use it in a current where it is not even possible to throw in a regular, portable course. ;)

 

[BraceMaker]

@DHski fun right just think you are practicing for Moomba!

 

Actually this is interesting I think one of the challenges of learning the course is that most skiers ski better open water at higher speeds my wife for instance no matter what I do on open water she keeps asking for more speed till 33/34mph, I tried getting her a different ski to slow down but she likes the firmness of the water and the wakes of the boat better like that. When we ski the course she needs to back off to 26 or 28 which is very understandable.

 

But if I had a river with say 3 or 4 mph current that we could go upstream for awhile she could have the ball to ball timing of 28mph at the effective waterspeed of 32mph.

 

 

@ErikBerghiller so it sounds like your programming takes an average speed at some sampling rate then counts time and fires when the km/s * seconds = the distance instead of using the gps to count the actual distance correct? Guessing this avoids errors like how car gps will say 200 feet as you blow past the turn.

 

 

 

[swbca]

@ErikBerghiller On what point on the skier's path, does the splash exist ? Is the skier crossing the wake, or is he somewhere in his preturn when the splash happens ? This question is about timing the skier's turn location at different rope lengths versus the timing of the "splash". If a skier is skiing at 35off, his position relative to the boat is very different than if he's skiing at 22off. Does the splash exist so the skier can see it soon enough at all rope lengths ? Or is there a setting on system to sync with the location of the skier's turn - relative to the boat's position ? Or is this question not relevant . . it would be interesting to see a short versus long line demo ? At the extreme, if the skier is skiing 38off at 34mph is the projectile landing at the skier's feet as she commits the tip of her ski to the turn ? Or will she see the splash early enough to time her execution of the turn ? Or is it possible for skier to manage her timing relative to the initial visibility of the markers ?

[r_maniak]

I really didn't want to share this video because the odd sun angle makes it so you cannot see the markers in the video. I don't want people jumping on here and saying anything about that. Ask ANY OffCourse skier and they will tell you - YOU CAN SEE THE MARKERS plain as day - even on rough water.

There - that aside... this dropbox link below is a video of a 32off pass. Put your speakers on and you will clearly hear the markers firing. They are rather high velocity, so the splash takes place a fraction of a second from the time you hear it fire. Depending on how well I accellerate out of the turn, the marker fires generally around the second wake/foam area. This gives me plenty of time to set up for my turn. I feel the same when I ski at 35off. When I ski at 28off, I feel that perhaps I have more time (but I think that's simply cause I'm moving faster at shorter line lengths). I really think it fires when you're in 2nd wake/foam no matter the line length. I'd be interested in Eriks comments on this, but thought this vid would be helpful.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kd4a3p4xg3wjgda/IMG_0760.MOV?dl=0

 

[BraceMaker]

@swbca since there is no real "gate" the position of that ball strike depends on where you're skiing relative to it. If you wanted to you could ski a tighter line to the ball strike.

[swbca]

@r_maniak It seems the skier could manage their position relative to the strike timing if they new when to start. How does the skier lock in on the system's timing at the beginning of each pass so he can learn how to choose his position (like 2nd wake crossing) to coincide with the next strike? @Horton said the strikes came up fairly fast, but it seems that's up to the skier to choose how he syncs up with the system's start. Maybe he was using his real start gate, since he timed the strikes to hit the location of his real submerged skier balls.

[Stefan]

Just wanted to give some input from Sweden since my wife and I now have skied with OffCourse (OC in the rest of the text) mounted on our Malibu Response 340hp from 2005 equipped with PP Stargazer and Z-box. We have the boat based in the Stockholm archipelago with no possiblity to put in a course at our location close to our house. When I first heard of OC a couple of years ago I immediately thought that it would be perfect for archipelago course like skiing after our own boat instead of only doing free skiing. We are both fixed buoy course skiers also and members of a club with a course on a lake. My wife skis into 32mph and I ski into 32off at 34mph (soon old enough for 32mph though..). I have to say that OC lived up to all my high expectations. The best things are actually the new Z-magazines (as seen in the pic below) that holds 24 balls each, matching the life of the CO2 cartridge so you reload everyting at the same time. The Z magazines allows you to do 48 turns in a row if you have the space and the stamina, absolutely wonderful! You do need to get the course width right and you do need to learn how to time the start with the boat crew so you get the zero ball were you want it, but that is easily solved after a couple of tries. I really think that this is a great training aid if you don't have access to a normal course where you ski, well done @ErikBerghiller!!!

 

 

[Mastercrafter]

@maxepr here is the thread you're looking for.

[ErikBerghiller]

Hi Ballers,

 

We're wrapping up a great first season and the OffCourse™ is completely sold out.

The good news is that the next batch is already in the making.

 

Previous batches have sold out quickly. So, if you are contemplating the OffCourse™ for next season and want to make sure to get your hands on one you can make a 10% down payment on our website and we will set one unit aside for you right away.

 

We estimate to start shipping in April 2022.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

[swbca]

@ErikBerghiller @BraceMaker Would it be feasible to setup a temporary Start Gate and then synchronize OffCourse to that buoy ? I know this has been mentioned but how would the driver sync the 1st skier projectile to the rubber start gate ? The temporary gate could just be a red buoy with a weight hanging 5 feet below.

 

[UWSkier]

I had some apprehensions about the whole "how do you know when to start" thing too. What I've found is that if the driver watches the skier closely, it's a non issue. For us it's on the skier's first move outbound, the button sequence goes "A one-thousand START" and the 0 ball lands right towards the early part of the skier's glide.

 

The other thing to note, you don't have to back-side the 0 ball splash to get a good ride. If I back-side it, I'm turning 20' in front of 1 ball. 0 ball just tells you "it's time to go." I usually turn 15-20' downcourse of 0 ball and still end up way early at 1.

 

So, it's:

Skier gets up, adjusts shorts, whatever, and gets to their starting point. For me, that's just out of the trough.

Driver places hand on controls and watches skier.

Skier initiates outward move

Driver presses A, says a quick "onethousand" or whatever count word you like, then presses START

Skier observes splash mid glide and turns in 10-20 feet past splash

 

This has worked really well for us.

 

The only caveat on the whole thing I've found is that if you're late, don't try to ski the splashes. Being late rocks the boat over and the next ball will shoot out way wide. If you're early, the next ball may shoot a touch to the inside but the effect is far less than being late (stronger pull). Even if you are late though, the splashes are awesome for ensuring you're skiing a good rhythm.

 

In this pic you can see the splash and that I'm just starting my turn in a good 20' past it. I "backsided" the 1 ball splash on this pass. This is 34mph, 28 off. Right click image and open in new tab if you need to see it zoomed in.

[swbca]

UWSkier Thanks for your write-up. Once you're into the course, what are the biggest differences compared to a conventional course . . (things that matter) Such as, do you see the splash early enough ?

[UWSkier]

@swbca TBH I like NOT seeing the splash until I'm in my edge change or pre turn. If I see it too early, I look at it. That's my biggest issue on the course is looking at the balls. I finish a turn then spot the next ball and ski on too much of a line right at it instead of giving myself enough space to make a nice easy turn on the next one. With the OffCourse, I sortof ski as if it's a free ski set. I keep my eyes and head up and level and just use peripheral vision to spot splashes and end up skiing much more consistently than I do on the course.

 

I did get on a real course for the first time since I started training with OffCourse and I ran 28 for the first time ever. I'd gotten to 5 ball a couple times prior. That was the first time I can remember ever attempting a 28 where I wasn't looking at the buoys and just kept my gaze up. I credit the OffCourse for forcing me to ski a course width and rhythm without giving me something to stare at.

 

As for differences compared to the course... I tend to turn a bit early and run over buoys and end my pass a fair bit on the real course. I like that on the OffCourse if I run over a splash, it just means I'm skiing an early enough line.

[ErikBerghiller]

Hi Ballers,

The Swedish winter is upon us and we are full steam ahead taking delivery of materials and assembling the next batch of OffCouse™ units right now!For those of you who are looking for in-depth testimonials from our current users, you can now check out the new section on our website with elaborate

case studies.

 

 

 

[Fastguy888]

@ErikBerghiller I would be very interested in leasing an OffCourse through middle of winter months. I ski with a group of die-hards who all have regular access to buoy courses April - October but due to weather, or lack of water; we ski open water much of the winter. None of us willing to spend 3k on an Off-Course for the limited use, but would absolutely lease one for those months we cant ski a course? Do you have any lease program in development?

[ErikBerghiller]

@Fastguy888 As for now, we don’t have a leasing option.

[swbca]

@ErikBerghiller I have an OFFcourse on the way. This is on my wish list if firmware updates are possible on this unit.

 

A right hand entry gate buoy doesn't have to be anchored to the bottom of the lake. Even in a mild breeze a half-submerged 7" buoy on a 10' rope with a suitable weight will barely move during a 10 minute set if thrown over board (in 70 feet of water).

 

Then, if OFFcourse could add an entry gate button for the driver to start a 6 buoy sequence when the boat passes the entry gate buoy, the practice value would be more similar to skiing a regular course. An added benefit, the standard 24 ball magazine would provide 4 complete 6 buoy passes.

 

I don't believe there are any complications with this concept; the GPS distance between the starting gate buoy and ball one is a constant regardless of boat speed and rope length.

 

[braindamage]

@swbca i think the timing of zero ball is a short term issue as long as you always have at least one driver in your boat who has worked it. In other words, I’m not sure this update would be needed after a few sets.

 

My $.02

[swbca]

@braindamage I agree with your point, but the temporary gate ball would give the skier actual starting gate practice. On my lake I am in a situation where OFFcourse may be my primary course. Having an entry gate ball would make the experience more similar to a physical course.

 

The physical course on this map is rarely usable past 8am late in the summer because of wind. Wind all day, wake boats all evening.

 

But there is always a quiet shore somewhere . . that's the benefit of OFFcourse on this lake.

 

 

 

[ErikBerghiller]

@swbca Sounds good that you have an OffCourse™ coming!

 

Regarding simulating gates with fixed buoys, it sure would save one projectile per set but it comes with other challenges. Flying down the lake at 36 mph means that if the start button is being pushed just two-tenths of a second too early or late when passing the buoy, you will end up with an off range of over 20 feet in distance between the gate and one ball in between sets.

 

We often use a start buoy during photo shoots to have a sense of where the splash will end up in relation to the camera guy and it is nearly impossible to sync by hand.

 

Just like @braindamage said, there is a learning curve to the zero ball, but after a few sets you will have it figured out ?

 

I appreciate all suggestions for improvement and read everything in this thread, so keep em coming!

[MichaelWiebe]

Crazy idea: Automate the signal exchange between the gate buoy and the OffCourse. Must be skier-safe though.

[Andre]

Green bouy with a magnet and Perfect Pass sensor to start the sequence!!!

[swbca]

@ErikBerghiller Of course you're right about manual timing accuracy. I was thinking best case on manual timing, but best case would be hard to do without a dedicated timing person with a hand held timing button equivalent to a hand held stop watch. Before speed control in record capable tournaments, the boat timer would look forward and follow the upcoming gate buoy with something like a golf swing to click the button when his/her hand was above the buoy. That may have been +/- .1 second.

 

When you have your product imbedded in new ski boats, you might have a magnetic buoy start option and bulk consumables feeding your guns for a few days of skiing :)

 

Seriously, with the public and regulatory pressure on slalom courses, your product could grow the sport and be a basic feature in new ski boats. With a built in OFFcourse system, ski boats could eat into the wake-boat trend.

 

I am anxious for spring to arrive, being able to get an early start on Minnesota skiing with the OFFcourse system.

[BG1]

A setup like Perfect Pass used with a magnet attached to the buoy and a sensor on the side wall of the boats interior would be very accurate and a great option/selling point for the system.

[swbca]

I just bought an OFFcourse. The developer's video and print documents provide safety instructions as they should. In practice we stop at the end of every pass . . skier pulling up on the right side of boat. Looking at a few of our videos, it doesn't look we would ever be hit by a ball. Our driver doesn't turn to the right until the boat is down to maybe 10-15mph. And the guns shoot down, so in real life it seems it you would have to try hard to be in the way of a ball. Is that your experience ?

[r_maniak]

@swbca As a seasoned OffCourse user, I'd have to say that you and your driver would need to devise a plan and execute it properly in order to TRY to get hit by a projectile. Even if you tried, it would be a challenge to get hit.

[swbca]

@r_maniak with your experience are small changes in boat leveling significant to the skier regarding course width left vs right ?

 

-Please describe how you manage the width setting or boat leveling from day to day . . . or if its not even necessary to think about.

 

Such as . . . .

- Do you level the boat, at skiing speed which I assume is different than stationary ?

 

- When you mount and unmount the device, do you have to re-level ? I don't see why remounting would change anything if you are careful.

 

- Short Rope lengths would cause a few inches too wide to be a problem.

Is course width sort of a background problem you learn to live with or is it easy to manage so it isn't noticeable ?

 

- Do you ever tweak the width settings just based on skier input rather than using measurements and/or a level ?

 

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience

[r_maniak]

@swbca Yes. Boat leveling is the heart of a sucessful user experience. We have a 24" level velcro'd on the dash (highly recommended). We often just ski two of us, so we keep weight under the observer seat. We occasonally gain a 3rd in the boat, so we remove the weight and position the observer such that the bubble level is dialed. It might sound like a lot of screwing around, but once you get it figured out, it's really quite simple. Our 3rd actually knows exactly where he needs to sit and manages his own position based on taking a quick look at the level.

[r_maniak]

@swbca I missed a couple of your other questions. Once it's dialed, mounting and re-mounting does not affect projectile placement/course width.

We try not to mess with the course width settings adjustments once it's accurately calibrated. If I'm feeling squirrely and want to get a 38 pass, I might have my driver give me a half turn or so on the width knobs to bring them in... just for fun. Given that the width adjustment tool is literally right at your fingertips, it really adds to the fun factor. It's a great feeling climbing back on the swim platform after "getting" a clean 38!

[swbca]

@r_maniak Thank You ! I have the same driver and two 50 pound shot-bags stacked tight to the left side-wall under the love seat. If the driver's side is low less than 1" at skiing speed, I would probably use the current setup as my base line calibration. If the left side is low 1/2" I can shift the weight before I calibrate.

 

The Fuel tank design on my ProStar doesn't always keep the fuel even left and right, so I would guess there are 1/2" changes in the boat's leveling that occur constantly.

[bbruzzese]

Has anyone skied a course whole using this? Be interesting to see how close to the balls the projectiles land.

[swbca]

@bbruzzese I don't know why you got the WTF above. @Horton has a review posted with the exact video you are asking about.

 

I'll give you an "Awesome" to make up for the unearned WTF.

 

Here is a video from the manufacturer without the skier. They have the spalshes setup in this video to land about 2' down course for clarity, but the width is very consistent.

 

 

Have a great Day !

[MDB1056]

The q on accuracy relative to course balls was addressed long ago, including Horton demo'ing in his course

[bbruzzese]

Thanks so much for posting...or reposting i guess, the vid...much appreciated. Of all the posts on this forum lately, not sure that's the one that would frustrate me. Oh well, tough crowd today i guess.

 

Looks cool, thanks again!

[BCEagle]

I share ownership in an OFFcourse, enjoy it, and would recommend it. However, I think the accuracy is not always as clear as those video makes it look. Those videos were shot without a skier. Adding a skier adds a variable and can have an impact. Based on my experience, if you stay on time, the accuracy stays pretty good. However, if you get late, and your pull timing changes, it can rock the boat a little, and cause the next buoy to shoot much further out. (I'm only a 34 MPH 22 off kind of guy and maybe it is my lower ability).

Like I mentioned, overall it is great, very fun, reinforces good habits in many ways. I'm just open to any tips if others have experienced that or found a good way to offset that element. thanks!

[swbca]

@BCEagle . . . using your observation as an example . . . OFFcourse is an innovative product that was a first for the sport. The developer has built a great product for a small market. We can all hope that sales are sufficient to make it attractive for the manufacturer to continue with the product's development. Maybe it could become an imbedded option in ski boats. Real slalom course availability is declining and a course adds to the fun of slalom skiing even if you don't compete. If ski boats could make slalom more fun with a built-in course, they could compete better with Wake Boats.

 

I understand the sentiment expressed on this thread    "its a great product with limitations compared to a physical course. Don't make it complicated by suggesting enhancements"    On the other hand I hope it's market can grow to support its continued development. For example, BCEagle mentioned the skier's pull affecting the course width. The solution; After the initial calibration, automated leveling of the unit could be possible in a future version. In 5 years I am hopeful we will look back to see a history of continued innovation with OFFcourse.

 

[swbca]

@UWSkier your description of 'starting' the pass is helpful. From what you describe it sounds like the 0 splash is spaced further from the 1 ball than the normal ball-to-ball space. (You said you are early on 1 even if you ski past 0 some distance)

[ErikBerghiller]

@UWSkier The zero splash is spaced 177 feet before the first splash. So, if you were to draw a straight line from the zero splash to the first splash, that line would pass the course centerline where the gates would have been in a regular course.

[ErikBerghiller]

Hi Ballers,

 

This is the last weekend that the OffCourse™ will be available at the launch price of $2499.

 

All down payments made before midnight pacific time on February 27th will reserve a unit at the launch price and we estimate to start shipping in April.

 

If you are contemplating a purchase this year, don't miss out.

 

https://rodicsinnovation.com/product/offcourse/

 

Thanks

 

 

[r_maniak]

I've been very active on this thread as an enthusiastic user and supporter of this product, so I wanted to share yet another WIN for this company.

We typically use OffCourse on a Malibu Response LX. Mounting it on that windshield has been no problem at all. We keep another boat (ProStar 205) at a different property and have yet to use it there. When I went to check mounting on that boat, I noticed a big problem. The standard mount clamps are designed such that your only option is to clamp it on to the center windshield section. That windshield panel on the 205 droops like a basset houd's ears, so mounting was pretty much impossible. I reached out to Rodics and within days, I had an extra set of clamps which were already designed and available to solve the exact problem I had! Super easy to install and perfectly addressed the problem. Amazing! Great work... and THANKS, Erik and Rodics!

 

[swbca]

@r_maniak I have the OffCourse, but haven't been on the lake yet. I have the same problem with my ProStar 197 after seeing the free-play twisting in the top member of the center windshield frame after mounting the system. I was trying to figure out if I could move the existing brackets to main windshield frames, but that didn't look possible at one end because of the control box.

 

Happy to hear there is a solution.

[Timr71]

I know this is a long shot, but I have to ask anyway, so here goes. My cousin is considering buying one of these as he lost access to a course on his lake some time ago. He would like to ski behind it once if at all possible. Does anyone have one of these that is located in Central or East Tennessee, or Alabama? If yes, we'd love to cross paths for a quick set just to see how it all works in reality. Thanks in advance.

[ErikBerghiller]

@Timr71 If you have not got ahold of anyone who can give your cousin an OffCourse™ pull yet, shoot me a PM and I'll see if I can arrange something.

[Timr71]

@ErikBerghiller - Thanks much. I'll let you know. I might see my cousin this weekend as we get ready to pull boats out for the summer.

 

[SandSki135]

@Timr71. If you can't find some one closer. I am on Lake Oconee in GA. Be glad to give you a OffCourse Pull

[Tandcc]

Happy Birthday to me. Just found out my wife ordered me one for my birthday. I live in Hendersonville TN and can give your cousin a pull when I get mine. It is on back order and will be approximately 3 more weeks. Gives me plenty of time to order some balls and cartridges. Can’t wait

 

[Timr71]

@Tandcc Thanks, that's great! We have relatives in that area. We'll reach out to you after we get some time behind our own boats here. Thanks

[DaveD]

I'm trying to convince someone to buy one but he's concerned he won't be able to see the splashed without his glasses on. Is there anyone in southeast or southcentral Michigan that has one that he can see in action and maybe try out?

[swbca]

Glasses aren't that bad. I skied with mine on by accident a few times and never noticed they were on. No spray or other globs of water ever drew my attention. I now have glasses specifically for skiing. I have the OffCourse but haven't had a chance to try it yet.

[Wish]

Are u talking prescription?