170,000 Reasons The New Nautque Won't Sell Down Under

[ozski]

Was quoted $170,000 for a loaded 2019 Ski Nautique by a local dealer. You guys stateside have it good. MC is taking over.. MC will take over...

[Than_Bogan]

Wow 170 million is rough. :smile:

[ozski]

Fixed :) That was a pre coffee typo. But seriously at 170k I can't see how it fits, ski schools can't make it work. I can't see how there will be enough volume around to get a set behind one if you needed to prepare for a tournament. Even with the base model coming in at say 130k ? its still a huge ask. Aussie exchange rate is not helping things but the door is wide open now for MC to sell a lot of boats and build a strong following in Australia. Its already happening.

[Chef23]

I thought Malibu was pretty big in Australia because they manufacture down there. Seems like it may open the door.

[ozski]

New Malibu is seriously on the nose in Australia, from what I understand the latest iteration skis a lot better than the first release. A lot of tourney guys I talk to are not happy with it. I don't think its the same engine as the US boat.

[Tonster17]

Over the last two years they have put a lot of different engines in the TXI in Aus, from the 5.7 320 hp to the 5.7 350 hp, some had the 6.2 410 monsoon, now you can get the new Malibu M5Di Direct injected Engine 5.3.

I like the new Nautique but 170k is way to much when you can get a fully optioned Prostar for under 100k. MC is making big in roads in Victoria and I give Malibu 2 years max before they go to fully importing the boats from the US.

[Than_Bogan]

Mark this the hour of our doom: "Under $100k" is used to represent a good price.

[spud]

I call 170k gouging of the highest order

 

[Daddyodaman]

Is that $170k for a ski boat, that only holds 7 people, and only 4 when you're actually using it as a ski boat? No wonder on Boatsales it only says "Get price". I don't think ANY tow boat is worth that much money, ski OR wake. That's mental.

[Bulldog]

How much of that 170K is import taxes?? I remember being is AUS in 1994 and one guy I was pulled by had a promo boat given to him but his “free boat” still cost him close to 20K to import.

[skierjp]

Like I’ve said on this forum numerous times, if you compare apples to apples MC and Nautique are really close in price.

[J3]

What's the exchange rate right now? $1US to $1.4AUS?

[Horton]

@skiep in terms of MSRP you may be correct. But in terms of what the real street price is no.

[BRY]

$170,000 AUD is almost exactly $120,578 USD today. Assume that includes all import duties, freight and so forth for the AUD MC. A nicely spec'd MC with single axel and 6L, but not fully loaded, shows $119,680 USD MSRP on MC's site which is $168,545 AUD today and does not include all import duties, freight and so forth. So not much difference, bit of wiggle there where discount off MSRP may or may not be roughly equivalent to "all import duties, freight and so forth." Raw base MC listed at $80,950 USD which is $113,998 AUD. What does an Aussie MC dealer quote for equivalent boat to that Nautique quote?

 

Either boat new, in USD or AUD, is damn pricey for what it is. However there is a 2018(maybe 2019) MC with the big engine along with two 2019 Nautiques (one with big engine) on my lake. The big motor is sweet but they really charge for it. But not seeing a huge differential between the two for new out the door regular guy price.

 

I seem to get by with my 2011 200. Works just fine for slalom. Someone can pick up a similar boat for around $36K-$40K USD or about $50.7K to $56.3K AUD.

 

You don't have to spend $100K+ on a boat to ski. Lots of tourny guys (most?) personally run older boats.

[Daddyodaman]

Let's face it, if the only way to ski was behind a $170k boat, there wouldn't be many people interested in the sport, let alone participating.

[gapullin]

One issue is there is a disconnect between the US economy (booming) and those of Australia and Canada (contracting). Ski and wake boats can command big dollars/good profits in the US right now, so there is not strong incentive for manufacturers to hold prices down, in either the US or abroad. When the inevitable US contraction hits, it will be interesting to see how this affects US prices, and by extension, those abroad. 10% import tariffs in Canada right now are an additional substantial price detriment. The longer these reactionary tariffs persist, the more likely they are to become permanent. If I was an international dealer, I'd be holding my breath that consumers continue to open their wallets for boats that now virtually start at 100k USD.

[mbabiash]

@Horton

Thank you.

I know first hand the dealers costs on both the ski nautique and the pro star.

Not even close in price as I stated in a previous thread.

[aussiemc]

Exactly the same price shock happened in Australia on release of the 2014 ProStar. The AUS dealers and MC ended up working towards reducing margins in order to maintain / increase market share.

The New Txi is advertised well over $100k AUD and it's locally made.

[allycat]

thats a lot of money you can get wakesetters for less or a lewis for 130000 less that will still ski good in australia.wonder how much the mastercrafts prostars sell for

[Jody_Seal]

From what I am told the two Moomba boats are pre sold and will go to the new owners right after the event.

In the 20 years or so I have been involved promoting nautique into Australia I have heard this many times " they wont sell for that price here!" Well! Seems to me there is no shortage of customers lining up to order the Nautique products as Australia is one of our strongest international markets..

The ratio of ski boats vs wake boats sold in Australia is about the same as it is in every other boat market around the globe..

Aussies seem to have taken the product rivalry to a personal level, why cant we all just ski ?

[Golson]

You can get the new 2019 Nautique 200 with the Sea-Dek interior, new helm, bow cushions, rear seat, bimini, radio, 6.0L and a trailer for around $67,000 US. Still expensive, but not horrible compared to the prices I’ve seen for the used old interior design 2018 Nautique 200. The new display and Sea-Dek are probably worth the new model upgrade. Maybe that boat is only $150,000 AUS?

[ozski]

Jody is correct about the Moomba boats being pre sold and it highlights my point as I've heard they sold at a heavily discounted price (130k or thereabouts). Meanwhile the first boat that came into the country is unsold almost a full year after it landed here. And yes the nine people that are left here in Australia that can afford the new boat should just get on with skiing. The upward price trend is disturbing as we here in Australia are possibly only a few years away from a 200k RRP... Its time for a new player to emerge.

[ORANGEBALLS]

@Golson 67k for a new 200? What dealer is selling them for that?

[skierjp]

@Horton all depends how good you are at wheeling and dealing. We all know that first year models are usually only available in limited numbers so this greatly reflects the bottom dollar. Try and order one, most all production spots are filled for 2019

[swc5150]

@ORANGEBALLS All of them if you put pencil to paper. MSRP on it is "only" $79k.

[mbabiash]

79k is no radio no cover no mimini no trailer no front or rear seats etc.

MSRP with those options is 90ish.

Again like @horton says, you can’t go off of MSRP.

[Ilivetoski]

I have a good buddy who works at the local MC dealer. Told me if you walked in & wanted a base prostar & offered them in the neighborhood of $65K they would probably take it. I highly doubt Nautique will come from $130K down near $65K for a base Nautique. If they will then the $130K sticker is insanity (as if it isn’t already)

[rockdog]

@ozski is correct saying MC is currently on a big upward trend here in AUS. I know a family who recently bought a 50th Anniversay Prostar and pretty certain they paid circa $100k. I see a lot of them around the areas I ski so I guess MC seem to have a good package with the current Prostar for price. Another guy I know running a ski school loves them not just based on price point but a real world benefit he says is there's so much more room in the boat without the saddle bags he had in the 200 it makes a difference when you're out there for hours teaching kids etc.

 

My opinion is Nautique will take a pretty heavy hit on sales here, as popular as they are (correct again @Jody_Seal ) that high cost is almost the straw that will break the camels back. There's nobody I know who will be forking out $150k odd for this new thing and I actually thought the 200's were expensive. You folks in the US mightn't quite understand the market here given the option we've had to import these boats since the GFC mostly, my suspicion is that there's a high percentage of 196's and 200's here not bought new, but imported like I did with my last one from some years ago when the dollar was at a parity with US. In fact the exchange was $1.05 if I remember correctly in about 2011. So the actual figure of new boat sales over the last 5,6,7 years of 200's would not be very high making it even more unlikely the new model will sell.

 

Agreed also the tourney guys I speak to haven't got much nice to say about the new Response. People that haven't even skied behind it have written it off because they've heard nothing good about it so it might just go from top selling ski boat to behind the Prostar I think. Cost of living is pretty high here and so reflects the cost of Malibu manufacturing in this country too I suppose? You'd think given a plant here should mean we can buy them at a reasonable price but not so, which makes the MC brand look even more appealing.

 

I'll be sticking with my new to me 196. Everybody who sees it tells me how beautiful it is so I'm pretty happy!

[fox197]

@ozski i completely agree. Its funny that when the new nautique was released i received a bucket load of dislikes when i commented that it would struggle to sell at the 160k mark in aus. Yes all brands are going up in price but 170k buys a new prostar and a tow vehicle to match ha ha. One bonus of the prices going up is i got offered 10000 higher than i paid to trade my 2013 197 in on a new prostar.

[swc5150]

@mbabiash Agreed MSRP is a bogus number. I could still buy a decently optioned new 200 with trailer in the upper $60's from my dealer.

 

@Live2ski We're talking 2 different boats (new 200 not new SN). Agreed, no way a new SN is anywhere near the $60's. The quote I got from my dealer buddy was way, way higher...even with the base 6.0. Much too close to having 6 digits for my wallet.

[ALPJr]

Just curious, are there other AU comp' ski boat manufactors that could be considered? If so what are they and how much do they cost?

[Dacon62]

Maybe someone in Aus could comment on this...is it in Aussie $, is it a base boat, no trailer or decently optioned? If says sail away price so assume ready to go to the lake. Very nice real world price for Australia. That’s about the price we would pay in Canada. Got to be stiff competion for Nautique.

 

 

[Tonster17]

@Dacon62 That price is would inlude lots of options options. Drive out the door on a tandem trailer, upgraded wheels, a tower and lots of metal flake is 100K. We pay here approx. 12k extra for the 6.2L

[Dacon62]

@Tonster17

That is a killer deal. Like I mentioned that is about what our out the door price would be in Canada so for Aus that is a get it now, don’t ask any questions, holy crap I stole it deal.

[wilecoyote]

I get to ski because I have a reasonable 2 income life with no kids. There is no way on this earth I could ever afford a new ski boat. We're talking the kind of money that would buy a brand new Porsche GT3. We make all this talk about how to get more people interested in the sport, and then make the entry price outrageous. I'm not saying that there isn't 170,000 of value in one of these boats, but when my boat was new (1984) it was considered a tournament ski boat and it cost I believe somewhere around 12,000. Apparently that's about 30K in today's market. If I wanted to splurge, and treat myself, that I could afford. Something has gone horribly wrong when we think that 97K AUD represents a "Killer Deal" for a boat.

[skierjp]

I would consider a "entry boat" not a new boat. Let the ones that can afford the boat buy it and then buy it used. The domino effect!

Everyone is stuck on the price of ski boats, who would have ever thought a F250 could cost 100k?

[dvskier]

It’s not a cheap sport but when you’re skiing in the course who cares?

[ToddF]

Boat prices have exceeded the CPI by a long shot.

Cars I understand they have been legislated into many safety and emission laws that have driven up the cost,

 

Boats not so much

 

1984 ski boat at 17k msrp with the CPI 103

todays cpi 251

 

the math

17000*251/103=41,400 what boats should cost now!

or reversed

 

100,000*103/251=41,000 is what a boat would have cost in 1984 based on today's prices.

 

[swc5150]

$41k would be nice, but not realistic at all. The street price of a nicely equipped Prostar or N200 seems to be where it should be IMO. These have always been and will always be high-ticket boats. A #3 at McDonald’s is almost $10 these days for goodness sake.

[skierjp]

@ToddF How can you make the comment about boats? They now have catalyst exhaust systems, they are basically the same engines that are in the GM trucks with all the technology. What do you think it cost for all of the hazardous waste and regulations dealing with fiberglass and carbon fiber? I think you would be shocked. What about all the safety guidelines the boating industry has to deal with?

[swc5150]

Overbye had a good thread on all the mandates involved in boat building. It's sounds as bad or worse than the auto industry.

[Gar]

Even if you add all the updated goodies (ZO, upgrades engines, electronics, etc.), these boats are luxurious items satisfying a small market reflected in the price tag. The big three have to cover overhead, make a profit, and continue to compete!

[wilecoyote]

Chris Craft (it doesn't get much better in production boat quality than them) makes this for MSRP 98,000. https://www.chriscraft.com/models/carina-series/carina-21/

 

Can you honestly look at this exquisite boat, and compare it to a current ski boat as a luxury item?

 

A ski boat is a tow boat, it should be built as such, strong motor, great wakes, great tracking. Do all the ski schools and tournaments need all that luxury? Most of it gets unused in these two applications, so in order for the serious skiers to be able to train behind a current tow boat they have to either buy or pay the cost at their ski school for ski boat that's trying to be a luxury item.

 

[swc5150]

One can buy a stripped out Prostar strictly for tournament or school use...talking 2 seats and an engine. I think the issue is, only a small percentage of these boats are used for schools and tournaments. The "real" market for them is the family like mine...desire for a great wake and tracking, but all the comforts to keep the family happy. The big 3 have been masterful in delivering such.

[Horton]

I think you guys are going off on kind of a irrelevant tangent. Tournament boats are luxury items because they are expensive and you can live without them. They are not luxury items because they are jam-packed with unnecessary features. They are generally configured with the features you need to waterski at a tournament level. On top of that some people add a stereo, tower or some seating.

 

 

[ToddF]

@skierjp seems to me GM has done all the engine and emissions work already. All the boat manufacturers have to do is piggyback off of GM's technology, then Buy at bulk prices

I have no idea how much hazardous material fees are per boat, but it sounds like upwards of 20K+ per boat.

 

There was a thread awhile back talking about options on new boats and I remember how ridiculous they were, 400+ for a mirror option.

 

What I do know is if people are willing to pay the price, then people are willing to sell at that price.

 

I am pretty sure they know that they will sell X amount of boats regardless if they are priced at 70k or a 100k so why not price them at 100K, honestly that makes good business sense. Know your market

 

[wilecoyote]

@Horton. By it's very nature a tournament boat is a luxury item, I'll give you that. But this of itself does not justify such a hefty price tag. If it is a luxury item now, then it was in 1984 and we've already established that a new tournament boat costs 4 times as much today as it did then. I don't know, but I'll bet a new bass boat doesn't cost 4 times what it did in '84. Also by this definition, having a dedicated truck just to pull my boat makes that truck a luxury item. It doesn't mean it should cost 3 times more than the truck my local contractor buys for work. Boat for boat, I see no reason for any current tow boat to approach the price of that Chris Craft, and yet they actually cost more.

 

 

[Horton]

 

[thager]

Obviously, no smarter than the fish!!

[vtmecheng]

I can't agree more with @wilecoyote. If a Chris Craft, with all of its higher luxury materials and build quality, can be had for under $100 MSRP then what is going on with the big three ski boats? Those who feel the price is acceptable or worth it likely have a lot more disposable income than upper-middle class. I used to be completely on-board with the used boat argument, that people like me can just buy used. The cost of new boats has driven the value of used boats up too, making the purchase of something from the 2000's much higher than it should be. This is proven by the number of people I read here saying that they sold a boat for as much or more than it was purchased for years later. This price issue will continue to be a big reason the sport declines. I have four friends that want to buy ski boats right now but can't simply because of the cost. That keeps them and anyone they would potentially take out from skiing. I get that this is a high cost of entry sport, it always has been higher than many other sports but it was obtainable. Once prices are completely in the upper class bracket there isn't much hope of the sport to grow.

 

Something to think about. How much did a 1997 Ski Nautique 196 cost new? If I recall, a friend of mine payed somewhere around $40k for his 1997 new with a trailer and heat options. That's about $63k in 2019. Sure, it didn't have zero off or PP but that doesn't account for the extra $40k new boats cost. The ultra basic emissions controls that boats have don't cost that much either, just check out the price of a catalytic converter and remember companies don't pay what you and I do at Autozone.