The rise and fall of water skiing

[BraceMaker]

Agree with @pregom -

 

usawaterski.org/pages/waterways.htm

 

USA waterski should have a 50 state guide to ski course permitting along with an action plan for the states that have large waterski populations and unfriendly rules.

 

If you could go to USA waterski and see a list of lakes with accessible ski courses by zip code how cool would that be? Tons of "trailer boat" owners would be interested in this.

[chrislandy]

I like the Moomba Masters style of comp. City centre, highly visible, day comps, night comps, mix of all disciplines including wakeboarding and no doubt at some point surfing too.

 

Bring it to the people rather that getting the people to the lake

[The_MS]

It’s those damm private lake people again.

I am sick of that excuse

[klindy]

@BraceMaker @pregom @The_MS I attempted to make the same points you are making in the second post of the second page of this same thread.

[RichardDoane]

@The_MS +1 to that, private lake people have kept the competitive aspect of this sport going, not to mention the equipment sales/property taxes/etc. that come along with it. Things change over time, and we should not fall into the trap of worrying about yesterday and things we can not change. Do something this season to make your events fun to attend and people will enjoy themselves, keeping our sport alive.

[pregom]

@The_MS - I don't have anything against the private lake people. I'd love someday to wake up in the morning and get together with my neighbours for a set off my backyard! What I am trying to say is that private lakes are not enough to grow the sport and also that they are geared specifically for slalom skiers. True beginners and recreational skiers who want to free ski are, most likely, not going to have access to a private lake.

[The_MS]

Anyone can ski at a private lake if they own a lot or membership. We have loads of kids that free ski and learn to ski every day.

I learned to slalom on miles and miles of glass on open big water with the help of @jack Kinne. My desire to ski out my back door drove me to lake living just as a golfer would live on the course. It is much cheaper to live on a private lake then to live on public water here in MN.

 

 

[jimski]

I skied 10 tournaments this year and a bunch in Washington state mostly because of @RichardDoane and the crew they have down there. Met a great group of people and had a blast. They know how to have fun in the PNW. the attendance was always between 40 & 60 skiers all different age groups and abilities

One three event tournament was on a public lake

[unksskis]

Slightly off topic, but having the Pass the Handle, Teach someone to ski, and all these other initiatives on weekends that are usually on or around major competitions (Regionals, State), or near holiday's (July 4th), is likely not getting the support from the skiing community that it needs. Whoever schedules these things needs to look at the competitive skiing schedule, more people and lakes could be available.

[MISkier]

In Michigan in June 2020, we will have two non-tournament events geared for the general skiing population to get exposure to a slalom course or just get a ski ride at a private site. One will be a fundraiser for Cystic Fibrosis on a private lake. Slalom, Trick, or free ski participants should be able to enjoy a ride and other activities for a good cause.

 

The other event will be a novice night on a private lake where regular tournament skiers would be kindly asked to step aside to provide opportunities for those interested in the sport, but lacking the access to a course or private site.

 

While I am encouraged by these events, we should have several each year. I hope this is the start of an ever expanding trend.

 

Both events will provide the latest tournament boats and some tips from experienced skiers to share knowledge and an overall passion for water skiing.

[JeffSurdej]

@MISkier That's great to hear and a great way to solve many of the ideas that have been tossed around on this thread. The success of these Wednesday night ski leagues has been incredible. It's an opportunity to give people access to a course or boat they may not have, it helps build the base of recreational skiers, and because sites (mostly private) are hosting them it easy to sanction and support and run. AWSA has pledged $7500 in 2020 to support and take these nationwide by covering the cost of sanction fees and guest membership for first time attendees and marketing the events. We are hoping to double or triple the # of these events in 2020.

 

@Horton You asked if a pure 3 event organization would have weathered the storm better. Great question and we will never know but I really do not think it would have, if you look at the major factors that have caused the decline I do not see how AWSA on its own would have solved them. Yes, there are challenges for AWSA working within USAWS, but also benefits. In the end maybe we would be a little better off as in maybe our decline would have been 40% instead of 50% but I still don't think it changes the major causes. Just my opinion, I'm sure many disagree. The biggest frustration is really the capital and resources to implement ideas. AWSA has ideas that have been on the table for years and neither AWSA nor USAWS has the resources or capital to implement them, but if AWSA was on its own we would have the same issues, we would have the same lack of revenue and increase in cost of doing business leaving no working capital for good ideas to make a difference.

[ForrestGump]

95% of the people here define growing the sport as increasing tournament participation. IMO, that is the tail wagging the dog. You need recreational skiers to be able to pull UP to tournament participation. You can't grow tournament participation organically without a pool of recreational skiers to pull from. It's how the majority of us got here. But we've let the recreational skiers go the way of the dodo bird in the last 2 decades.

[BraceMaker]

The private lake people aren't to blame but think of them as the core/talent/knowledge/skilled people.

 

So if the core of the sport doesn't care about public lake skiing then our organizations don't care about it either. @MISkier that event sounds excellent - advertising through local dealerships?

[EricW]

USAWS should provide a Young Alumni membership for college graduates on their first 1-2 years out of college at the same price as the collegiate membership. Give them a chance to get established in their job. They used to do this with season football tickets, you could buy season tickets for the year after you graduated for the same price as student season tickets, making that transition that much easier and keeping that participant engaged.

[MISkier]

@BraceMaker, I will be publishing Michigan's 3-event schedule (including the two events I mentioned above) on the Michigan Water Ski Association website. I'll also publish some information on the MWSA Facebook page and link back to the site as well.

 

Regarding the Cystic Fibrosis fundraiser, the Rock CF organization will be handling the marketing of that and working with sponsors. But, @Kimbymon is running that event and can provide further information as well.

 

The posting of the schedule should be in the next few days. I usually wait for the tournament directors to get their sanctions posted on the USAWSWS website, so I can provide direct links from the posts to the entry information. I am still waiting for about 6 sanctions to be created. We usually have about 20 tournaments or so per season. I'll probably go without those missing sanctions and update them later.

 

 

[unksskis]

@EricW they offer Active memberships for under 25 years old for $55, over 25 yrs old is $85.

[Kimbymon]

@JeffSurdej I saw in the latest USA water ski newsletter that guest membership fees will be waived between June 27 - july 3. The Cystic Fibrosis fundraiser is June 27 and is being sanctioned as a practice with guest memberships, would our event be eligible for this? Thanks Kim

[JeffSurdej]

@Kimbymon 99% sure yes.

 

BTW some posts have indicated what a good measure is of growth and I like what you all have said, membership is not everything, nor is tourney skiers, unfortunately its the only metric we have so we harp on it a lot but as long as a lot of people in the world are waterskiing recreationally and buying skis and boats these are all good indicators of the strength of the sport.

 

Also wanted to add that I hope I did not offend any private lake owners or club members with some of my comments. Private clubs are the core of our sport and we would not be in existence without them, my point I was trying to make is that we need more clubs to help grow the sport. We have 385 AWSA clubs, and I know a lot are helping skiers learn to ski, inviting them to ski, and doing a great job of helping but if we could get more to help, more to be more open to outside learn to ski events, we can use this resource to help fight the decline, put it this way, that approach is easier and cheaper than trying to rebuild the public lake atmosphere

[rayn]

Are we measuring the growth of the support by number of memberships in AWSA/USA-WS?

 

if so,

 

1. When did SKI-SAFE stop including a supporting membership as part of the policy and can we look at the correlation between membership numbers and that date?

 

2. We now have 3 choices in insurance - Ski-Safe, Global, BoatUS - we should advertise when people are buying these policies to join.

 

3. Why don't we make a deal with the Big 3 at a minimum and the rest of the sport boat companies and have them include a flyer/bingo card/QR code to join AWSA as a supporting member showing what the benefits are.

 

4. Same thing with towed sporting equipment manufacturers.

 

At a minimum we should be collecting email addresses of all of these purchasers and email market to them to join our organization.

 

 

[Than_Bogan]

Related to several things mentioned: I've always felt that the most important role any "overarching body" could have is in working toward permitting and access.

 

I have no personal experience, but I feel like I read an awful lot of stories of people losing or unable to get access for skiing, and it seems that all of them mention that they contacted "some governing body" and got no response.

 

If that's true, it seems like a huge problem to me.

 

But regardless, I'd like to see AWSA most focused on promoting new places to ski and keeping access to existing places to ski. There is no more fundamental barrier than not having a facility to actually participate in the sport!!

[Kimbymon]

@BraceMaker our event for the Cystic Fibrosis fundraiser will be 4 passes of whatever you want including tubing. No surfing though. We will also have cornhole, volleyball, a double inflatable slide for the kids (and adults) as well as a cookout. Water participants will be charged $65 which gets them the 4 passes, a T-shirt, a pint glass with our logo, and access to food. Spectator tickets are $30 and that gets you a T-shirt, pint glass and access to food.

Emily schaller who runs the rock CF foundation out of Detroit is helping me with this. Her foundation is a 501c3 and she puts on a 1/2 marathon and 5k race each March on Grosse Ile, MI.

We will be actively seeking sponsors, the sponsor packet is almost ready and she has a reach of 25,000 people via social media and email. I also hope that the exposure on BOS, and MWSA helps us to get people. I also plan to email the members of the local private clubs.

We joked that the auto show charity preview raised $4M last year so let’s aim for $4.1M as our goal. ?

[unksskis]

What are the thoughts on cable skiing?

What potential does it have, can it grow the sport?

Why does it seem to be catching on more globally than in the US?

How could cable be integrated to help grow AWSA?

 

I project Cable Wakeboarding will likely be an Olympic event within 8 years.

[thager]

If motorized "doubtful".

[unksskis]

@thager are you referring to the Cable Wakeboarding being in the Olympics? If so, my projection is based off of the recent addition of skateboarding and surfing, as well as the success of snowboarding, especially slopestyle. Cable wakeboarding is more about the obstacles and tricks, and is a judged sport like the others. Combine that with the International appeal cable wakeboarding has, the prestigious International locations, and it has a good amount of potential. Which leads to my question on the potential of cable skiing being an avenue for growth.

[Spineofgoo]

This is America,if it ain't got a V8 500 HP and a cup holder we ain't interested ?

[unksskis]

@Spineofgoo while I don't disagree with that, I think the newer generations don't possess that same interest as in the past, more about cost effectiveness, ease of use, social interaction, etc.

 

[DaveD]

Blame it all on helicopter moms. :smile:

[Jody_Seal]

I would agree also that there are many reasons for the decline of participation within the the organizing federations of the sport. Can the sport and membership redevelop into a economical ,viable competitive enity similar to the glory days?

That will never happen.

Could a direction to make the sport more of a growth potential and sustain a real professional level? Probably.

Opening up formats and putting championship ideology back into it is a step in the right direction.

Getting the sports emphasis away from the pylon end and putting it on the handle end is another.

Good god we don't need self driving boats.

Get off of the idea we have to compete behind the latest incarnation of a tow boat.

Promote competitive events that involve true team competition, alow each team to have their own boat and driver.

Stop the bagging of drivers just because you skied bad behind them that day.

Get off the over technical aspect of the sports playing field.

Start a event boat usage program data base where private owned boats can be utilized, this would help with the lack of available promo boats.

 

All the regions winter meetings are close at hand. If you have any ideas or suggestions contact your council and or evp.

However having sat on a couple committees, been a councilman and a director i can honestly say it was all a waste of time because it was all do nothing as far as these meetings are concerned. very little input from state or regions is tolerated in these meetings. business models are not adhered to and personal direction and policy's that are not directly beneficial to the general membership population are pursued. A one size fits all philosophy is maintained and state , regional needs are discounted. Out of the box thinking is discouraged. I think in these meetings they concentrate on just plain making participation harder rather then what can we do or implement to make the sport more accessible, enjoyable or visible.

What does the organized do for me?

Or you for that matter. I am still trying to figure out the latest gouge of having to pay a extra fee to get scores on the world ranking list when the skier pays a high entry fee for a L&R tournament to get on the rankings list.

 

Carry on!

 

[Spineofgoo]

@Jody_Seal thank you, I ski behind a. 1988 mastercraft promo with the T top catch net.and we have no problem being competitive when we go to the tournament ponds,although there is a lot less spray ?

[aupatking]

I am going to use self reference here, so it may only apply to me, but I really don’t think that’s the case.

Growing the base of recreational skiers is great, but I grew up with extremely aggressive open water skiers, who skied the course on occasion and it showed. I wanted to ski like them when I was very young. By the time I was 8 or 9 I was seeing the LaPoints and Andy Mapple in Waterski Magazine. That’s when I knew who I was and what I wanted to be.

Even without skiing in tournaments (the middle between recreational and Pro skiing) until I was 35 years old, I’ve always wanted to be a course skier. For me, waterskiing is an aspirational sport. I would not have had the interest had I not seen the guys on my river and at the US Open, and met Andy Mapple at the Masters when I was just a kid.

So maybe the bottom matters and maybe the top matters but the top doesn’t exist without the middle.... and I don’t think the middle exists without the top. The bottom will exist. That part will be around as long as Walmart sells combo skis. It’s getting those people to see there’s life beyond that set of combos, there’s actually some kind of art, some kind of competitive nature, actually a REAL SPORT. So, I contend it’s its somewhere in that visual link, somewhere in that aspiration “I want to ski like them” that we’ve got to tap into.

Free 1 year, or 1 tournament AWSA/USAWSWS membership with every ski purchase. Telling me the ski companies wouldn’t subsidize a little of the cost? I know they’re clearing more than a $20 bill on every ski they sell.

[coach3]

@aupatking Interesting post. My story is similar, as a kid believing I had the best spray, cross the wake the fastest, and turn the hardest; thought I was the best on our lake....then I went to the Masters in '74 and made a trip to Jack's first lake. It was humbling to have Mike Hazelwood ask what country I was from, and to add to the paid; the Roberge family and Sammy skied that week. I drove home with a smile on my face, sore, and full of humble pie. But it took, and now, 40 years later, we have an illegal sinkable course in a cove and I have a world champion daughter....I believe in the middle group as somehow people find us, and we give free ski rides and lessons all summer long. Let's grow the sport from the middle!

[pregom]

If being a recreational skier only means skiing with a set of combo skis, I agree that we need the middle between the bottom and the top. I would add that somehow we all started at the bottom and then moved up the pyramid, at our pace and reaching various levels in this pyramid. Speaking at least from my experience, it's not easy to find slalom courses in bodies of water calm enough to be suitable for learning the technique and progressing up the pyramid. Although I believe that if there is the will, there is a way (somehow), the main issue I see is with access to courses. It's great that people offer free ski lessons and days to try the course. What opportunities to continue exist after that?

[jpattigr]

@JeffSurdej

After reading these posts and searched for AWSA and then found usawaterski.org I can understand why the sport is not growing.

I have worked in the Alpine Snow sports industry for over 30 years and watched snow skiing decline and now recover a lot of ground. Snow skiing in North America has no presence on TV, even with an organized World Cup of events plus Olympics. Racing does not drive the sport here in North America, 95% of skiers can not name one athlete.

20 years ago, skiing was getting killed by snowboarding ( surf / wake) and one look around explained it, all the media showed was middle aged (or older) snow skiers talking about expensive places to ski and buying real estate at ski areas. Youth could not relate and did not care about what their dad's did! Then, twin tip skis, fat skis, young graphics and MOST important the industry started featuring young skiers doing fun crazy things. New media like Freeskier showed young skiers having fun, Youth could now relate and skiing came back and snowboarding is in decline.

 

Based on what i have seen, AWSA needs to do the following:

1. Update the web site, it is very old looking and boring. Your web site should be the first place skiers and wanna be skiers go, need to constantly update the site and feature young skiers on the site.

2. Focus on Youth, there is still a ton of young people going to cabins, lakes very week in the summer, inspire them to try a New (old) sport!

3. Start a media campaign, show off Collegiate skiing, young people doing the sport at all levels and use social media to showcase the FUN! Video's of Young people doing Fun / crazy stuff. Inspire

4. Show off more then just 3 event skiing, show off barefooting, show off Freestyle skiing

 

Expensive Big Picture dream ideas:

1. AWSA vans touring to Lakes in the summer offering Learn to ski lessons, staffed by Collegiate skiers for a summer job. Make this fun and go to lakes all across America and get people up on skis!

2. a world class stage for the biggest ski championships, maybe in Orlando area, build site with seating, food service, beer stations and a music stage. Host a big Pro Am there very year and have some good bands play to draw non skiers. Need comfortable seats / bleachers, people will pay but expect to be pampered.

 

Don't forget the real place to grow is still at lakes / cabins all across the country, build a large network of recreational skiers and the high end skiers will flow from this pool. All those wakeboard / surf boats (10,700 last year new by your numbers) can also pull a skier and get people started.

[Golfguy]

@JeffSurdej It is not a true statement to say that there is no Alpin Ski coveage on TV. There is very good coverage of Wold Cup events. Remember Lindsy Vonn? The sweet heart of Ski racing, dated Tiger Woods. I hate to say this but AWSA has had their run, time for a sea change, or go down with the ship. I realize this is a blunt opinion, but you know what they say about doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Pease and Love to all.

 

[JeffSurdej]

@Golfguy I didn't make that statement

[jpattigr]

@Golfguy I made that comment and the bit of ski racing on TV gets very poor ratings. My comment was that 95% of the skiers on any mountain don't care about watching the sport on TV. 98% can not even name a ski racer, Lindsay is more famous for being a model and dating Tiger, and now marrying PK (hockey player).

[ozski]

The sport requires expensive stuff and a lake to go with the expensive stuff. Its not getting cheaper and a lot of people hate the tournament format. I don't think you have to look much further than that. And it might take a couple of tries to run your hardest pass but if you can run it then well done your a decent skier, until some tournament skier tells you it does not count. Yeah that kind of attitude gets the skiers turning up on comp day. Not.

[BrennanKMN]

The comparison against alpine skiing is interesting. I raced slalom with my high school and skied at lot every winter (3-6 times a week). I recall 80% or more of the time I was at a ski hill there was at least one team practicing gates. That is a lot of visibility to the competitive side of snow skiing right in front of the 'weekend worriers'. Hell, the place where we trained right in the Minneapolis metro closed down 1/3 of the entire place just for teams to train on during the week nights. Pretty hard to miss... I cannot think of anything like that for water skiing. If it does happen it is nowhere near 80%.

 

Visibility is the key, and it ain't on TV. It is right next to everyone already doing the sport....

[RAWSki]

NASTAR handicapped alpine racing is a great program and they always managed to have a big money sponsor. It's something that would and could be fun to adapt to waterskiing.

But the courses for NASTAR are not on private hill ski hill in the middle of no where they are located a popular recreational ski resorts in dedicated 'race areas'. Sadly we can barely get permits for temporary courses on public water.

[skialex]

I don’t know about the US but in Europe alpine skiing is very big on Eurosport channels and in some national Central European country channels too. It’s the nature of the sport that you can only watch it on a screen. Even if you are there, best place is at the finish where there are screens and can see the whole run and the finish live.

For a lot of us is a big thing and fans know the athletes very well, There are big athlete fan clubs and we also know about the American and Canadian athletes that compete in the World Cup, ski jumping and maybe other disciplines. Don’t think there is a comparison between waterskiing and alpine skiing about the TV coverage. We ca only maybe take good ideas that work, as from any sport.

[The_MS]

A lift ticket at Snowbird is 145.00 per day

[sholcomb72]

Hey guys 1st post. I spent most summer weekends on the Tennessee River and rarely ever seen anyone on skis. Wakeboards and tubes were the norm. I moved down to Winter Haven, FL in 2015 and the 1st person I met asked me if I was a skier. When I told him I loved the water but didn't ski he said we will fix that on Saturday. By the end of that Saturday I skied on combos, solemn, Air Chair and barefoot on the boom. Fast forward 5 years later I live on the lake and ski as much as possible. When family comes to visit they learn to ski on a pair of Dick Pope Jr. Cypress Gardens skis. I live on a small lake but it has 4 solemn courses and 2 jumps and we rarely see a bass boat. Central Florida still has a lot of skiing but when I hear the old timers talk it's probably no where near as popular as it was in the Cypress Gardens days.

[unksskis]

Lake cabins, Cypress Gardens, public lakes, etc. I hate to repeat, but CABLE PARKS are the new age version of these, what is being done to target these opportunities?

[JeffSurdej]

AWSA membership increased in 2019, up 17 members. Ok, its not a lot but 2 years in a row of growth.

[BraceMaker]

@JeffSurdej how many members go inactive a year?

 

@unksskis slalom ski a cable lately?

[pregom]

@BrennanKMN yes, visibility is important and comparisons of slalom skiing on water to alpine skiing on snow (slalom, downhill, jump) are interesting. However, we can't pack skiers on water the way we can pack them on a snow slope.

[pregom]

@The_MS I'm not sure what you mean with the cost of a lift ticket at Snowbird. If your point is that it's expensive, then yes lift tickets in the US are very expensive everywhere, compared to tickets in the Alps. But I can still ski for a full day. I would argue that doing slalom sets on a lake for a full day is more expensive, between gas costs, wear and tear on the boat, etc. Besides, how many sets are realistic in a single day?

[pregom]

@sholcomb72 I'm jealous. The slalom skiing scene in Orlando is one of the best in the whole world. Enjoy it on behalf of the rest of us too.

[JeffSurdej]

@BraceMaker don't bring me down, let me enjoy a positive stat for 24 hours :) but its sad, 964 lost per year, good news is we gained 981 new ones but retention is a huge issue

[aupatking]

@pregom I like your points about the costs but I think the point @The_MS was making was, it’s expensive but that’s not keeping people from doing it.

You also got me thinking, our private lakes maybe aren’t the problem, in themselves. The problem is just how private they are. Very seriously, how much does it cost to build a lake? If we could have more Okeeheelee type parks around the country what would that do? Sadly, I haven’t made it there, and don’t know how the private boats being allowed works, or even how I’d go about getting a set in there, but obviously enough people do. That place stays busy, from what I hear.