Ski suggestions

[Cnewbert]

Looking for some ski recommendations for an old friend wanting to get back into water skiing after years away from the sport. I suspect that when he did water ski way back when it was low level free skiing. He’s an expert alpine snow skier however, so he’s not an athletic basket case. He only has some old slalom ski he bought cheap that is too short and narrow for him. He tried using it today and couldn’t come close to doing a deep water start, and was a bit shaky even on doubles. Yet he says in days of yore he could do deep water starts. It’s just been a while and he’s not in water ski condition. But clearly he needs a more suitable ski.

 

He’s 64 years old, 6’ 1” and 195 lbs. I think he needs something on the wider side, maybe not designed for a rank beginner, but maybe just one or two notches above. Maybe 68”?

 

He’ll probably be looking on SIA for a decent bargain on an appropriate ski. I’m just trying to give him some good suggestions.

 

Thanks for any advice!

 

[ballsohard]

Radar Senate and if he needs to get up with it and a drop ski for a little bit as he gets back in fighting shape then that's ok.

[Cnewbert]

Thanks @ballsohard. That’s one good suggestion. Others?

[ballsohard]

HO Omni also works great

[VONMAN]

Looks like Craig is moving on from his 68" D-3 Quest to a 67". Might be worth a try. Just a thought.

[MitchellM]

Radar butterknife would be a great option. Really made for what you describe. Incredibly easy for deepwater starts yet still turns well.

[Jetsetr]

Butterknife or Katana...

You must not like this guy if you’re thinking about putting basically a 64 year old beginner on a Senate...

If he progresses thru the BK or Katana THEN have him look at a Senate, but realistically the BK or K will be more than enough ski, they’re very easy to deep water start and won’t wear the guy out. NOTHING will turn this person (or ANYONE) off quicker is a bunch of failed starts, and riding a ski that wears you out after a short period of time. Go with a 69 at his weight, he’s NOT going to be shredding the course.

Harsh but true...

[Ski_Dad]

my vote is for a 69" Radar Union - a few of my friends are on it and it really is a fast ski but easy to get up on.

[Cnewbert]

Thanks all for the suggestions. @VONMAN thanks, but I think he’ll need more ski under him, at least for the near future until he gets back in the swing of it. @MitchellM my wife has a Butterknife and loves it, but she was a rank beginner this August. I think my friend can go up a notch or two. @Jetsetr you might have misread or misunderstood something. I’m not thinking of putting him on anything, let alone a Senate, so I’m not sure how you came up with that notion. And I’m not the least bit ignorant about the detrimental effects of inappropriate choices of ski for a person’s skill level leading to repeated failure. I merely posed an open question to the group and am thanking everyone for their well meaning responses, including yours. I ski on a Lithium Vapor. The Senate is only 0.2” wider so I know that won’t be appropriate. But I do agree with your suggestion for a Katana and will recommend he look into that one. I will emphasize once again, he is not a beginner starting from square one. He just hasn’t water skied for a while and the cheap used ski he bought was a recipe for failure. He knows that now. But given his past experience and decent overall fitness I think he can easily step up from a Butterknife. @Ski_Dad the Union is another one I think he should look into, and I’ll suggest he does. I’ll think he’ll up his game pretty fast once he gets back into it, especially given his past experience water skiing and his present snow ski expertise. You can’t ski deep powder the way he does and not be fit and possess good basic athletic prowess. But he may not get to water ski with great frequency, suggesting the Katana may ultimately be more fun for him. He can always move up. He’s a helicopter pilot by profession and makes decent money, so losing a few bucks on an upgrade won’t break the bank.

[Jetsetr]

@Cnewbert My comment wasn’t directed at you (although the way it’s written I see how it could be taken wrong, it was more an open comment to those who suggested the Senate. Should have clarified).

 

Snow skiing is not NEARLY as physically demanding compared to waterskiing, keep that in mind. I can snow ski relatively hard (mountains not Midwest molehills) all day vs 3 hard sets without a break.

 

The Union is just a tad narrower than the Senate, same shape (as you know since you’re a Radar guy).

 

The Butterknife would be my choice for him, it is easier to deep water start. Let him get the skill set/muscle group back and then he could progress to the Union. Go Long (69).

[Cnewbert]

@Jetsetr of course your comment was directed at me. “You must not like this guy...”. “This guy” is a reference to my friend and I’m the only one who knows him, so you can only be referring to me. The person suggesting the Senate has no idea who I’m talking about, so he can’t like him or not like him.

 

Secondly, you are woefully misinformed. “The Union is just a tad narrower than the Senate”. It is the Vapor that is 0.2” narrower than the Senate, not the Union. The Union is 0.2” wider, not narrower, than the Senate. Argue with me if you must, but read this before you do, from Brooks Wilson in another thread:

 

“The Union is .4 wider than a Vapor. So it goes Vapor and then add .2 to get a Senate and then add .2 to get a Union.”

 

He would know.

 

I won’t even bother debating your comments re: snow skiing being not NEARLY as demanding as water skiing as it’s a silly and irrelevant debate for my thread and not one you can make an apples to apples comparison to in the first place. But doing 2,500 vertical drops through deep powder at a 10-12,000 ft elevation hour after hour takes a high degree of fitness that does not easily lend itself to water skiing fitness comparisons. But make no mistake, it takes a high degree of fitness.

 

Anyhow, thanks for your input and I’m sure you mean well, but your factually erroneous comment on ski width demonstrates you don’t have an accurate knowledge base on the skis in question, so I can’t give your advice any credibility.

[Than_Bogan]

@Cnewbert You might want to pause a noment and then ammend that. @Jetsetr was trying to help. And I truly think you've misread his comment, which was intended to strongly disagree with @ballsohard (though also could have benefitted from some editing!)

[Cnewbert]

@Than_Bogan I acknowledged he was trying to help and understood he meant well, not once, but twice. But his mini lecture could only have been directed at me, so his denial was disingenuous. No one appreciates being talked down to. He did so to me twice and that was enough. Besides, he doesn’t have his ski facts straight.

[Jetsetr]

@Cnewbert Blow it out your ass...

I WAS trying to help...

If you know that F’ing much about everything why do you even bother to ask anyone?

(Middle finger emoji)

 

[Cnewbert]

@Jetsetr classy response! I was asking for information, not misinformation or lectures like you provided. Simple as that.

[Cnewbert]

I did get some great advice directly from Brooks. With the info I gave him, same as here, he is recommending a 67” Union. He confirmed again that the Senate is 0.2” wider than the Vapor, and the Union is 0.2” wider than the Senate. The Katana and the Union he says have similar width, but are proportioned differently. And lastly the Butterknife is 1/2” wider than a Katana or Union. He said the Union should get him out of the water easily enough, but perform more like a traditional ski once he’s up and cutting. Sounds like his advice is solid for someone with prior but not recent experience. I’ll likely suggest my friend consider Brooks advice, but look at both the Union and the Katana, factoring in how often he anticipates getting to ski.

[MitchellM]

@Cnewbert there's nothing more frustrating or demoralizing to the occasional skier than failed deepwater starts. Three of those in succession will turn most athletic 65 year olds into a permanent spotter for the day. Just make sure he gets a wide easy up ski.

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[VONMAN]

@Cnewbert you did ask for a 68" ski? That was my ski from Michigan when I was pushing 210 lbs and started skiing 32.5 mph. Easy to get up on and not being used right now. Free to try out. Just saying.

[Cnewbert]

@MitchellM I’m only collecting suggestions to give him, along with any valid pros and cons that people provide. I have no control over what he gets nor any first hand knowledge of any of these skis, except for the Butterknife that my wife has. I hope he makes a good choice based on the available information and I think he will.

[Cnewbert]

@VONMAN Actually I haven’t asked for or about any particular ski or ski length. I’m just taking advantage of the resource this group provides to gather information for my friend. I’ll certainly let him know of your kind offer to try out your ski. He’s over on the Palm Coast however, and I don’t know when he’ll be back over this way.

[aupatking]

I have a 67 Union that I bought for a boat ski for anyone to ride. I love taking open water sets @32 mph at 35 off. It turns exceptionally well on both sides and is super supportive. I think it would be a great “progressor ski” and agree with Brooks that a 67 would be perfect I’m pretty much the exact same height/weight as your friend. It is easy enough for any beginner to get up on but might suggest a double boot setup, as with e rear ARTP it takes concerted front foot pressure to get out of the water. I haven’t tried it with a rear boot, so that may not be the answer, but it’s what I feel with the ARTP. It’s definitely a good ski that is worth messing around with

[Cnewbert]

@aupatking thanks very much! I think my friend will find your comments very helpful in making his decision.