GM “zero emissions by 2035”

[Mastercrafter]

Since GM is claiming to be “all-in” on EVs and aiming to eliminate tailpipe emissions by 2035, what’s going to happen to their marine engine program? 2035 is not that far away, I suspect marine engine mfgs must at least be thinking about it or asking questions at this point.

[Jody_Seal]

Yes government overreach in our sport across the board. Only going to get worse. The hoops we have to jump through to purchase complete running marine engines. This for non cat application.

 

[The_MS]

Let’s go Brandon

[Rednucleus]

I would hope that by 2035, battery technology will make todays look like a Model T, and a practical electric ski tug will be the way to go.

[Cnewbert]

@Rednucleus if you lived in FL you’d realize that it’s the sound of an approaching motor that scares the alligators away. You might not be quite as anxious for a quiet electric boat! ?

[Mastercrafter]

@Rednucleus you’re surly not wrong, in my opinion. I think an electric tug would be pretty cool. I guess I’m just wondering if boat mfgs are already planning for all-electric. I know Nautique has one out already.

[oldjeep]

My Chevy V8 will still be running fine in 2035

[Mastercrafter]

@oldjeep ditto, as will just about every 350 and 351 out there. Hopefully we can still afford fuel for them

[Zman]

Think about how long it will take you to winterize your electric drive ski boat.

Time you will need to change oil.

When electric tugs are truly ready, I'm all in.

Maybe tow it with the all electric F-150. ?

 

[Mastercrafter]

I’ll tow it with my Cybertruck ?

[Keith_Menard]

Being in the motorcoach business, I actually can't wait for the days of electric being viable..and trust me, I am a total gear head who loves the sound of a 427 big block...the real one...by GM. 90% of the issues we have with ICE is the stuff tied to emissions.

 

Simplicity + Instant Torque? Yes please...it sounds a lot better than Cats, dropping cylinders, and DEF/DPF systems.

 

I am all in...when it's ready...not when it's mandated.

[ski6jones]

If new ski boats are still used in tournaments as they have been it will be PP/ZO change all over again. Nobody will want to ski a gas rig because it will be different than the tournament boat. I'll be men's 9 by then so ... it won't matter.

 

@Jody_Seal that form is offensive.

[Mastercrafter]

@Keith_Menard you spelled Ford wrong. Just bustin your chops.

[ALPJr]

Might not have to wait that long. https://www.homewoodmarina.net/electric-boat-lake-tahoe/

 

[swc5150]

Exactly @Keith_Menard ! When the tech is ready, and the market demands it, not when some politician thinks it should be ready.

[Skoot1123]

The electric Nautique proved it can be done in a ski boat. So to an extent the technology “is” there, but the market isn’t there . . . Yet. I personally find it interesting and pretty cool/neat. But I prefer the roar and throatiness of a good ‘ol V8!

[dbutcher]

Unless the electricity generated to run our future cars, trucks, and boats is produced exclusively by wind and/or solar energy, how much emissions will really be saved???

[klindy]

@dbutcher the electricity grid gets more emission friendly all the time. ERCOT is actually one of the most clean grids in the country. On a total energy consumed basis, an all electric boat used and charged in TX currently will be more emission friendly.

[dbutcher]

@klindy That is good news, but how does one know that it is actually true? And, if so, how is ERCOT doing it, Texas being such an oil and gas state?

[chrislandy]

Hydrogen fuel cell electric boat would be cool, you could manufacture the hydrogen lakeside!

[LeonL]

2035, huh? Well, I won't be worrying about that. 14 more years and if I'm still alive I'll just be drooling on my bib.

[BraceMaker]

@dbutcher with the current mixture of electrical generation and EV vehicles about 1/3rd of the emissions currently. But more of the energy content in natural gas finds its way to forwards movement and that higher efficiency tanks the gasoline ICE to natural gas power plant argument.

 

Then with the gas car you also have the fact that it takes enough electricity to make a gallon of gas to drive an EV 20 miles.

 

And that gas has to be pumped into trucks and pumped into tanks and pumped into your car and there is evaporation and spillage.

 

And then there is the whole off peak hour energy management situation where your fully charged car rarely needs mid-day recharging so as long as you can let your car charge between say 10pm and 5AM you're actually helping the grid be more efficient.

[jpwhit]

14 more years will put into the age range of Tommy Harrington, who I ski with in my ski club. He's still going strong and an inspiration, so I'm looking forward to partaking in EV Ski boat technology ....

[jayski]

Funny, lets assume 25% of the population is driving EV by 2035...where is the infrastructure to support that?

 

Cali is already running into problems with providing enough electricity, a head of a japanese car mfg has already stated the world cannot support a large EV percentage.

 

I do not see/hear of additional or upgrades to existing infrastructure in the works, yes conversion to using solar or wind instead of, but not addition too...

 

and almost no acceptance of one of the cleanest energies, that most cringe at...nuclear

 

[mlange]

So what is going to happen to our already over-taxed power grid when all this happens?

What are we going to do when all those batteries hit their end-of-life?

 

We're just swapping out one problem for another. "Green" comes in different shapes and forms, but don't be fooled into thinking that electric vehicles fixes all our problems.

[The_MS]

Good to know that a 120k new boat will be worth nothing on a resale or trade. When is the time line for when people freak out and don’t purchase new gas powered tugs knowing they can’t sell it in a few years

[Laz]

@jayski I'm all in on electric cars and boats. When electric boat technology catches up to Tesla, none of us will miss the days of gasoline, fumes and oil changes.

 

Building infrastructure wil take time but even if suddenly new vehicles swich to 80% EVs, it will still take years to replace the current fossil fuel cars of the world while electric infrastructure is not that difficult to build.

 

And yes, there should be a lot more effort put into new nuclear technology like traveling wave reactors, molten salt, thorium, etc.

 

Unfortunately, I think it will be a long time before an electric ski boat can replace a gas car as easily as a Tesla does.

 

And don't forget, fusion will solve everything and is only 10 years away....always.

[Zman]

Good point @jayski about nuclear. It is a clean source of electricity, except the concerns for long term storage of the nuclear waste. Acceptance seems low, but 12 states achieve over 50% of their electicity via nuclear, and a handful more very close. The US has 90 operating nuclear plants,

@dbutcher Texas is an oil and gas state, but they use about zero oil for electricity. Over half comes from burning natural gas, far cleaner than oil, but still pollutes, To their credit, they produce about 20% of their electricity via wind farms. T. Boone Pickens (RIP) having a big hand in moving that forward quite some time ago.

Maybe suprising to many, the only state that gets a HIGH percentage of their electricity from oil is Hawaii, about 66%. But, their total electricity demand is low compared to most states.

The best way the price of gas can be kept reasonable is through ongoing reduction in demand. Last year was a great example of this. As Covid cases climbed, people quit traveling, demand dropped quickly and substantially = gas prices dropped. Now, travel has increased quickly, demand has shot up, and prices as well.

Eventually, the supply/demand will find a balance and gas prices will settle somewhere inbetween last year and current prices (barring some other geopolitcal events).

Long term, the best way we can keep gas prices reasonable for all our remaining ICEs is to keep demnd trending down by shifting more to renewable sources for electicity (and short term keep using nuclear) and lower use of oil (gasoline) for burning in engines.

Crude oil is used for so many other needs (think plastics, synthetic rubber, medicines, surfactants used in cleaners, shampoo and lotions, and so many more) - we not only need to use less oil to conserve the environment - we need to conserve oil for all these other uses we depend on.

Definitely many challenges ahead. But, fortunately, many people and companies are innovating and technology continues to advance for alternate sources of electricity, and ways to be more efficient in using the electricity. And, the many efforts I have seen, and have participated in, to encourage the youth of today to continue to pursue learning and careers in STEM will help technology to advance further and hopefully accelerate it.

[jpwhit]

@jayski

 

https://theconversation.com/switching-to-electric-vehicles-could-save-the-us-billions-but-timing-is-everything-106227

 

Agree there will need to changes, but the problem is very manageable at any realistic rate of EV adoption.

[BraceMaker]

@mlange our power grid is not always overtaxed. Climate related issues are putting big daytime peak loads. Namely when you have heat waves, lots of AC usage, or cold spikes with lots of heat related power needs. But then the weather improves and we don't invest in infrastructure.

 

Our energy infrastructure needs a powerful lobby effort to advocate for the grid being modernized, maybe the auto industry can be that force.

 

Saying 'our grid doesn't support charging' when that grid is already supporting the production of the gasoline we are burning is also self defeating as anytime we can take energy more efficiently from one form to another we are using less energy which means that we have less need to produce gas which means we again have more electrical capacity to use.

 

 

[DW]

GM has a very profitable Performance Parts division, the unit that offers crate engines, marine engines & performance parts. I doubt with all the hot rod applications that the Perf parts division will simply be out of the IC engine business overnight. Similar to the ubiquitous small block, it was available many years past the introduction of the LS series, I am thinking IC engines will live past '35 for a while. Although 10 years farther down the road could be a different story. There are electric crate engine programs going, you can see electric small block / LS conversions happening as we type.

 

Second, Mercury Marine produces their own big block engines, fully in house production. Most of the marinizers don't have close to the capabilities of Merc, it may only take a couple to keep IC engines going for a while.

 

Ultimately, who really knows, its a long time between now and 2035 - 2040 to know what the powertrain side of the ski boat industry will look like. The manufacturers will pick the most economical option available to them at the time.

[The_MS]

The problems we will face are loosing jobs to over seas, charging station shortages, loosing gas tax revenues while trying to tax mileage, battery disposal and keeping the price of gas low until everyone can afford to go electric. You can’t just quit drilling for oil and not have EVs that are cheap enough and the grid to support it until those issues are solved.

We can’t make solar and batteries as cheap as China because they don’t care about pollution. Americans are ok with buying cheap crap from China not knowing how much crap they put in the air and water. So the jobs will all go there.

[BraceMaker]

@The_MS how many cobblers are there? gas latern wick trimmers? Butchers bakers candlestick makers? Ferriers, blacksmiths.l, Ice block cutters, Radioluminescent dial painters, TV repairmen,

 

If you build it... it will come.

 

Some of those jobs existed for thousands of years, others not so much. When steam locomotives came about quite the deal, when diesel electric replaced them people moaned. We will lose jobs overseas faster if we refuse to get ahead of the trend. Already happened over and over.

[Mastercrafter]

@DW Good info, thanks. Did not know Mercury marine did everything in house. I know Ford and GM do have good performance parts / engine programs, just wasn't sure if they would survive and be profitable if those are the only ICE they're building.

[The_MS]

I am all about moving off of carbon base but it needs to happen on a responsible time line to have it all make sense and not bankrupt the poor and middle America. You can’t force it to happen until it is ready. Shutting down a pipeline from Canada and then having to buy oil that gets delivered on ships makes no sense. We are now buying dirty Natural Gas from Putin when we could produce our own that is 40% cleaner. EVs are awesome and I can’t wait to own a Tesla.

Let’s go Brandon

[Bruce_Butterfield]

If that actually happens and new boats are available with electric drivetrains in 2035, ya'll will be reminiscing about the good old days when a new boat cost only $120k

[BraceMaker]

@The_MS

I'm sure you are aware of this and not purposefully being disingenuous but...

shutting down a not yet built not yet operational pipeline project that was blocked for many years over environmental concerns. That at the time the permit wa revoked is less than 8% constructed.

 

Surely you arent claiming that we are now buying product off ships because this less than 8% constructed pipeline that was questionably approved to allow Canadian exports to cross our borders easier stopped being built? Its moved zero energy.

 

And then Russian exports surely you aren't talking Bout Nord Stream a Russian pipeline that 0% crosses any of the lands of US indigenous peoples.

 

But just in case you are, you want canada to be able to move its products across our lands but you do not want Russia to move their product across not our continent.

 

But you also dont want us to reduce our dependence on those products until we are ready to electrify but you do want us to build more pipelines to support some other dependance because that technology is also strained.

 

 

Man my head is spinning.

[BraceMaker]

But ya we need to build a pipeline to support what we currently do. But we cant build electrical infrastructure because no that couldn't work we need to prop up our current fuel reliance more!

[swc5150]

Whatever comes to market, I just hope it's better than what we have now. Sure buggy whip makers are gone, but the car was leaps ahead of the horse and buggy. But also, GM can do what they want. I have no interest in their car offerings anyway. When there's still a demand for ICE boat engines, someone will fulfill it pending no gov intervention. Maybe Toyota marinizes the Lexus V8 again:)

[jayski]

"I am all for removing the use of gas vehicles"

"I cannot wait to use EV cars, the world will be better"

 

Look around you, what is the majority of the products in your house/office made from?

 

Which country that pollutes by copious amount more than any other country or combination of are those products from?

 

Why do you continue to support products from that country IF you CARE about the environment?

 

How blind and narrow minded is a person to think IC vehicles are the major issue to a clean environment?

 

[The_MS]

The USA imported 538 thousand barrels per day from Russia in 2020. Yes, I will take Canadian oil in a pipeline vs by sea from countries that hate us.

What good is 5.00 per gallon doing to speed up EV production or our readiness for them. Do you think that every home in the upper section of the country that uses NG to heat their homes should just pay a crap load to heat there homes until we get it figured out? Inflation kills. Make them all decide between food or heat?

[BraceMaker]

@The_MS oh man wait I thought the US was energy independent under Trump??? Everyone says it was.

 

Guess it depends who was feeding younthe information because jeez my uncle yelled at me for 20 minutes at my moms birthday about how we were energy independent.... Must have been misinformed jeegolly.

 

Hownmuch of that energy could be locally sourced solar and wind? (most of it)

[Zman]

@The_MS But, that's because you are from a suburb of Canada. :)

[Mastercrafter]

Lets keep this boat related, before it turns into the Safesport thread :)

 

Back to the original discussion of what will power all of our GM-block towboats if GM stopped making internal combustion engines. Or, are they not actually going "all-in" on EVs, like they say?

 

 

 

 

[BraceMaker]

LOL the name of our former president autocorrects.

[Horton]

I appreciate the passion some of you guys have about this stuff but I strongly believe that non-waterski politics is not in the best interest of this community.