Are concussions a bigger problem than we think?

[Guest]

So I know several people right now that have concussions ranging from mild to severe, that happened either from slaloming or jumping. And I think everyone that tricks has experienced that headache after catching one too many edges during a trick set. Personally I had a decent concussion last summer after having a weird fall free skiing.

To me it seems like the risk of concussion is something that’s not really talked about. I’m not sure there’s any statistics on this for water skiing in general, but I’m curious to hear what other people’s experiences are with concussions from skiing.

[prk]

i experienced a little bump to my noggin 3 years ago while skiing "3skull fractures, brain bleed and concussion" spent some time in the hospital still having to deal with reoccurring symptoms from time to time it's a risky sport

[S1Pitts]

We have the advantage that water does give a bit unlike ground, grass fields, head on impacts, etc of other sports however the speed probably more than makes up for it. I personnaly have had concussions playing other sports and have rung my bell more than a few times from skiing.I would agree that concussions are overlooked espesially by those who have never experienced one, but once you have you know it when it happens again.I have ski partners that now ski with helmets because of their concussion knowledge coming from partaking in other sports.

[JayShower]

@S1Pitts what kinds of helmets do they use? I tried looking into this and it seems like there aren’t any great options for waterskiing. Maybe some kind of wakeboard helmet?

[BKistler]

It’s a good question that you pose. I’ve had the stuffing knocked out of me more than once jumping back in the day, although I was among the first to wear a helmet. I’m not a flipper and haven’t experienced any serious head bangs while tricking. For me the bad trick falls are the backward neck snappers.

I want to point out that one of the most dangerous of boat-towed sports, in my opinion, is tubing. The potential for head and neck trauma is very real, especially since many people ride prone and the head and neck are not supported by an erect spine.

[6balls]

@BKistler agree. Many can't pull a tube to give a "fun" ride and still be safe. Many more are not watching traffic well as they turn this way and that way unpredictably while trying to go fast enough to lose their tubers.

[ISP6ball]

He said boat towed sport..... and tubing in the same sentence.

[S1Pitts]

@JayShower They are using rock climbing helmets. One is using his old downhill ski racing helmet.

[Jmoski]

@S1Pitts - rock climbing helmets are designed for protecting against rock fall and hitting you head against the wall in a bad lead fall, so I don’t think it will help prevent concussions. Yes there is a little bit of cushion in there but not much.

Worse, most climbing helmets have a 1/2” gap between your head and the helmet which I worry could get grabbed by the water in a sideways fall and really yank your head and hurt your neck.

[JayShower]

@Jmoski there has been some limited research on this question of helmets for watersports:

https://boaterpal.com/do-helmets-help-prevent-injury-while-wakeboarding/

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12283-020-0321-6

In my personal experience jumping I’ve never had a jump helmet “bucket” the water and yank my head, but I don’t jump very far. I have worn our jump helmet when tricking though when I had a bad week where I couldn’t stop catching edges and I never had bucketing but it did stop my headaches after trick sets.

[Jmoski]

@JayShower - thanks for the link, I am not against a helmet for water sports, but it needs to be designed for intended usage. As the article points out, the greater surface area of the helmet and it buoyancy actually de-accelerate your head even faster when it hits the water, which worsens your concussion.

Hence my thoughts on the rock climbing helmet not being materially beneficial - outside of preventing you from injuries from hitting the ski/board in a crash.

Waterskiing is a contact sport, injuries will happen , but concussions seem far more frequent in other sports.

I’ve gotten a few concussions wrestling in HS & college, never skiing. Trying to learn how to wakeboard - yes, and that’s why I stopped :-)

[hemlock]

I believe our sport is "head injury" safer than Olympic figure skating.And it's not the NFL, and it's not NASCAR.

I can see it for jumping and wakeboard as there is high impact on height to a fall.

[kc]

@Luzz Did a very informative podcast with (Dr) Bruce Reid, former pro skier from Canada, on the subject of concussions in watersports. Everyone should listen to it.

[BlueSki]

Great info here:https://iwwf.sport/concussion/

[jcamp]

I think they are a bigger problem than many of us think. I know I never really thought about them until earlier this year when I went to see my doctor because I had a series of troubling cognitive episodes (I'm in my 40s so it's a bit early for those kinds of things). While he couldn't say for certain, he used my symptoms and timeline to narrow things down to two really hard falls I had slaloming on back-to-back days while in Florida over the winter. In hindsight, I've probably had at least a couple others ...

[JayShower]

Here is the podcast episode on concussions that @kc mentioned: https://www.thewaterskipodcast.com/podcast/files/ep69-ski-talk-with-bruce-reid.php

[adkh2oskier]

https://wavecel.com/ Check this company out. Supposed to be a better helmet design but I'm not sure it would work for Water skiing.

[lpskier]

@adkh2oskier The Merek looks promising. Burton product. They make (or perhaps in this case source) very good products.

[UCFskier]

water is not soft.... speed of the boat as well as the skier, catching an edge etc all compound the potential for trauma and the g's or force. I think its up to the individual. if you want to wear a helmet or have your kids wear a helmet that is great! waiting around for a sport specific helmet is not an option for us. Ask around, look at what others are doing and make a decision based on that. example, it is mandatory to wear a helmet for jump, however, there is no company that makes a waterski jump helmet.

have fun!

[thager]

Just do nothing, sit on the shore and wrap yourself in bubble wrap.....

[jcamp]

Yeah, injury prevention is for pu$%ies, not real men like @thager.

[thager]

You do you. I'll do me. I do not need or want any entity telling me what to think, say, or do.

[Vernon Reeve]

@jcamp could the cognitive issues have been the result of covid or the vaccine? My girlfriend and I both had issues lasting for about 3 months after taking the vaccine. Mostly gone now, I think. But still forgetting the names of things once in a while. Like I couldn't remember the name for "air compressor" so I called it that air blowing thing:) I'm 59 btw.

[JayShower]

I don’t want to get off topic on thr COVID vaccine @Vernon Reeve , regardless of his specific situation we know concussions cause cognitive issues.

Also @thager while I see your point, being more safety conscious isn’t always a bad thing. E.g. stopping someone with a head injury from going back out and getting back to back concussions, which is even worse.

[UCFskier]

I think @thager is just messin' I mean we are mandated to wear a lifejacket with slaloming, helmet while jumping.... I dont think he would call a 12 year old a wimp for electing to wear a helmet while slaloming or a jacket while tricking.... these are choices we make to have the sport become more fun

[Bruce_Butterfield]

The unintended consequences need to be considered as well. The only concussion I've seen first hand was a direct result of the helmet impacting the skier's jaw on a very mild jump crash (beginning jumper plopping). The impact was face first helmet in the water and no impact with the skis. Of course for jumping I think the benefits of a helmet are clear and outweigh the rare occurrence I mentioned.

I have never heard of a concussion for slalom or trick skier and think the unintended consequences are likely as much. or worse of a risk than a freak concussion.

[Cooper_Trelawney]

I've heard of a few skiers rupturing their eardrum waterskiing and apparently that can cause brain trauma. I guess we can get hurt doing just about anything. I usually feel the most pain just trying to get into my bindings these days.

[swc5150]

I got bad concussion going to down a stupid water slide. Stuff is going to happen living life :|

[bikesrus]

Smacked the water pretty good learning to ski the course one morning. I just remember seeing yellow and then I was on the dock and didn’t know how I got there. It can happen….._

[thager]

@UCFskier Yup, just messing! Wearing a helmet to slalom is a personal choice. Speaking from experience though, I have had 7 concussions in my lifetime. Four playing football in HS and college with a helmet on, two back barefooting and greeting my knees and one while employed as a bouncer. Explains a lot?

[rawly]

Does explain alot. That’s why I can relate with you @thager . Getting kicked in the head caused #1 , 5 from crashing my dirt bike and 1 from an out the front off the jump ramp. Scary stuff when you don’t know where you are and why you’re there. Haven’t ever thought about a helmet for slalom. If I did , I’d look into what the speed skiers use. They are thin and don’t catch water in a crash.

[JayShower]

@rawly I was able to find a couple helmets that speed skiers use after a quick google search: the gath neo surfing helmet - https://gathsports.com/product/gath-hat-neo/

and this rally helmet - https://www.stilohelmets.com/products/stilo-wrc-des-offshore-helmet

Ski racing Australia rules say helmets must be close fitting to prevent “bucketing” and also attached securely with a strap, not a “D” Clip (not sure what that means).

There was another ballofspray thread on helmets here: https://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/23751/helmets-for-slaloming

And they seemed to think something like a rugby skullcap would be good, like this: https://www.jobesports.com/uk/jobe-rental-softshell-helmet-orange-443721001/

Earlier @lpskier mentioned this helmet: https://www.burton.com/us/en/p/anon-merak-wavecel-helmet/W22-227331.html

Even helmets aren’t perfect though. One of my teammates who got concussed earlier this year thought he was good because he was symptom free, skied again- didn’t even crash, but he reaggravated his concussion and now he won’t get to ski at NCWSA nationals.

[jepski]

I think there is a lot to learn re: concussions and the potential for other brain-related issues that can result. My daughter missed a backside on her wakeboard a few years ago and landed on the back of her head from about 4' up around 17mph. She didnt feel well and got back in the boat, didnt board again (for years actually). She had suffered a concussion several years before in competitive cheer (talk about a sport FULL of concussions). Then, after the wakboard fall, she fell in her apt while attempting to sit down and hit the back of hear head again. Really long story short...she was a double major bio and chem, honors student and she began to struggle w/ her studies. It was really her insistance not to give up after one dr told her she was 'ok'. Ultimately she utilized physical therapy and while that brought relief she still wasn't her old self...she persisted to follow up on the mental health side and was diagnosed with a mild case of bi-polar disorder. She's worked with mental health professionals, on prescription medication and currently in her 2nd year of dental school and top 25 in her class. Her doctors have told her that repeated concussions can lead to undiagnosed mental health illness. As the dad, unfortunately my old school theory was "shake it off, you're ok" after that wakeboard fall. Now I know better. Accidents can happen any time, any where. Make sure if you even think you have a concussion, seek qualified medical care right away.

[o2bnMaine]

I don't think I've had more concussions skiing than in the rest of my life. I'd guess I've had a few minor ones, but most have been while barefooting, not slalom. I can remember one big fall slalom.

At this point in my life, I tend to let go before I take a bad fall. My wife is my driver and with her being the only person in the boat, she isn't comfortable with me getting seriously injured as she wouldn't be able to get me back in the boat. I will still go for a PB periodically, but I won't hold on for 1/2-buoys anymore.

It definitely does happen, for sure. I know a 20-something that took a VERY bad crash slalom. He couldn't remember that he even skied that morning. Seriously.

[Minelickskier]

We need a poll: How many concussions have you had while skiing? I have had 3 while slaloming…

[OldboyII]

Neither pro or contra. If anyone thinks that helmet helps he should wear it in order to stay in the individual comfort zone.Just one remark: mother nature during past dozens of millions years of evolution developed the perfect protection for such important part of living creature called brain.It is our scull - device with hard shell and suspention incide ))Moreover the brain itself has integrated systems for impact protection.These constructions passed through mega billions numbers of safety tests and proved their effisiency.Not always interference into the perfectly working system makes it better.;)

[unksskis]

Helmets increase the impact and likelihood of concussion when impacting water, bottom line. Helmets help with impacts against hard surfaces, not water.

[BKistler]

@OldboyII Although I’m a great believer in the wisdom of nature and agree with you to a degree, the human body did not evolve to handle crashes at speed.

[Jmoski]

Actually, it’s the lack of a shock absorption system inside your head that’s the root of the problem.

When your head hits something that brings it to a dead stop, your brain goes slamming into the inside of your skull. Hence helmets that are designed to absorb the impact will reduce the de-acceleration rate of your head, which in turn reduces how hard you brain hits the inside of your skull.

This is why the NFL now has the “guardian” helmet cover players are wearing in practice, it’s an airbag like wrapper around the outside of the normal helmet that reduces the force and impact experienced in a collision.

The movie “Concussion” about the doctor who discovered CTE in football players provides great insight into what is happening.

[Minelickskier]

To me, one of the big problems when going out the front is hitting your head on the tip of the ski if your ski is flying across the water. I have the tip of a Jobe carved on my forehead and a tip of a connelly beside my left eye, both were concussions and one of them was pretty bad. A helmet with a face guard would have helped me…but I sure wouldn’t want to wear one.

[Taynton]

There is research done from the wakeboarding industry that concluded that helmets worsened the impact to the brain on water only contacts. I cant seem to find the article but it was very obvious the helmets made concussions more likely assuming you don't contact the ski. The only time helmets were recommended was in the case of interaction with a stationary object (ramp rail box etc) I have over 20 concussions and a few of them are from waterskiing the most important thing when a concussion occurs is the treatment after. Do your own research but there have been significant changes to recommendations on how to treat/return to sport in the last few years and reading up on that would be way more beneficial in my opinion than wearing a helmet during slalom (which will only make your concussion worse).  

[igkya]

@Taynton  the www is full of old and useless info when it comes to information like this. Can you direct us to some of the info you are referring to?

Edited April 4, 2023 by igkya

[BraceMaker]

Its important to recognize that concussion and head trauma aren't the same you can get a concussion and we still think not smashing your skull in is a good thing.

On the concussion front a product is FDA reviewed and on the market called the Q30 

https://q30.com/

Which is literally a band that restricts the veins that provide outflow from your brain so that the brain remains "plumped up" with blood.  Its sort of alike a well... male enhancement ring.... But for your neck that keeps the blood perfusion high in your brain so that it reduces risk of sub concussive events.

Which the point being if you participate in activities where risk of concussion is high you are probably sustaining more damage repetitively over time than in the one fall.  For instance that one back smack of your head on a rail wakeboarding or that time you smack your head off a jump ramp are probably not as dangerous or damaging as the repetitive risk of just doing high energy things for a long time.

[Slalom.Steve]

@BraceMaker Intriguing product, thanks for the link.

The problem for skiing would be having it popping off during a fall, presumably then sinking to the bottom of the lake. Could attach it to the vest somehow, but if it comes off it kinda defeats the purpose lol. Any ideas?

[BraceMaker]

@SlalomSteveI haven't worn them but have seen them and I don't think it'd be likely to fall off even in a slalom crash.  I fear you're underestimating how much compression they provide.

They have covers for them for team sports/matching uniforms but I bet youd be best off putting something on it like a foam float more than a strap.

[chrislandy]

On 10/5/2022 at 1:19 PM, JayShower said:

There was another ballofspray thread on helmets here: https://ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/23751/helmets-for-slaloming

And they seemed to think something like a rugby skullcap would be good, like this: https://www.jobesports.com/uk/jobe-rental-softshell-helmet-orange-443721001/

 

That was me, and they work for slalom/trick/wakeboarding/kneeboarding/tubing i.e. where there aren't any obstacles, protect the ears and stop burst eardums from side slaps plus dissipate some of the energy on water impact..

[Jody_Seal]

probably had a number of concussions through out my life. played baseball/softball as a third base and catcher, 25 years worth.

High school football 4 years. wrestled a number of years at a open level.  the biggest hit though was waterskiing. however the incident would not have happened had the fools testing foam/noodle entry gates not done so. word to the wise to anyone out there thinking foam noodle entry gates are good ideas....Its not!

I digress: I know my son suffered two pretty severe concussions. one wrestling the other a 200' plus crash at The night jam a number of years ago. yes concussions can leave one in danger of down the road complications. these happen in all sports though.

Sad thing is our culture and society is fastly becoming a nanny state ideology, it wont be long till we have it in our sport...Oh wait! "Safe Sport"!!

Never mind!