99 Nautique Balance Issue

[MDB1056]

Hoping ballers can provide some insight here. Boat we ski frequently is a great 99 Nautique. Maintained meticulously and when not in the course is garage kept. For some reason the boat is throwing far more spray on one side than the other, even when very well balanced. See the attached pictures. The other day the engine cover was removed and flooring panels to see if anything below decks could possibly be seen, nothing found at all. Ran it up and down the course with everything open - again very well balanced, still the same. The boat does not appear to be listing to one side when this is happening, as again well balanced for the tests. So we're all scratching our heads as to what the cause could be. As this is a wildly popular vintage of Nautique I said I'd post the Q here to see what the what the more well informed owners might offer as suggestions.

I've read that some older Malibu's had issues with below deck flotation getting waterlogged making them ride low etc., but I didn't recall ever hearing anything similar with these. Any help appreciated. Again this boat if not moving through the course is dry and in a garage. Never any issues of water in the bilge more than minor packing drips.

[6balls]

Does it change if you do "unbalance" the boat? For example if you have more weight passenger side does it change things and vice versa?I really have no clue having owned and skied many of these. My goodness look at that wake (or lack thereof)

[Jody_Seal]

whats your idea of balanced?or how do you check your balance?back in the day I used to duct tape 2 20 pound barbell weights together and stuff them in the hollow area under the driver seat base. took care of that.however in your photo you have a pretty big load of dudes! women commonly weigh less!!! ? ?

[swc5150]

All 3 dudes in the boat when you took the pics? Have you tried making the lighter guy sit behind you on the floor? How is it when it's just a driver?

[swbca]

It doesn't look like boat is running level. Left side looks low to me. Because I am using OffCourse which requires the boat to be exactly the same balance as when calibrated, I have a permanent carpenter's level sticky taped to the boat. A standard bubble level isn't affected by a little vibration and works well at skiing speed. The electronic level is also permanently installed and used when the boat is standing still to shift smaller weights in the boat before each session for each driver.

My ProStar 197 requires 250 pounds (5 50pounds bags of shot) stacked tight to the left side wall of the boat in front of the passenger seat to balance with a 120 driver. So my boat is 130 pounds out of balance for some reason. In addition I have four 10 pound dumbbells that sit in the side pockets. I have 30 pounds on the right and 10 pounds on the left for my 120 pound driver, and 40 pounds on the left side for my 185 pound driver - keeping the boat level for each driver. If we have more than one person in the boat, we don't use OffCourse because 1 degree off of level messes up OffCourse by 5 feet.

[Onside135]

Russelville?

[S1Pitts]

Just a thought but do you suppose that Cc uses RH rotation to somewhat level the boat when running with only a driver? I am lucky that with my wife driving alone my 97 BB is dead level.Now back to the problem......is there any issue with the left side chine???? My buddy put his 98 BB into storage last year and they damaged the drivers side chine with a forklift. To hide it the idiots took an angle grinder to the hull to hide the damage. He has the same spray issue on the drivers side with the boat dead level 36mph.We plan on making some lemplates off the good side and trying to build up the damaged area to see if it can be restored.......nothing to loose at this point.

[MDB1056]

@Onside135 - yes! Russellville!

[MDB1056]

Sorry - The picture of the boat was just to show the boat. No - those guys were not in the boat when the wake/spray pictures were taken. @Jody_Seal - By "balanced" I mean a driver and observer of pretty close to equal weight being evenly separated. @swbca - In all honesty I think the camera was just tilted a bit maybe as the focus was to get the spray pictures. We've not noticed the boat tilted to one side or another when this is occurring. When we've added a 3rd person (150 lbs) to sit in the middle, it's made no difference. Even swapping then the heavier observer on the outside to the middle and the lighter (150) to the outside, still there. I don't think he has done solo runs yet to see what it is with only the driver so that may be the next logical step. Will inquire. No hull/chine abnormalities to my knowledge, as we wipe everything down very well after each use and everything looks fine and the owner has not indicated anything had ever happened . The boat is beautiful, but that is the first thing that comes to mind given everything else that maybe something on that side is slightly off. I think we're skiing it again Saturday or Sunday so will get some driver only pics and also with someone loaded in behind the driver. Appreciate everyone's input.

[jhughes]

It's possible you have some wet foam from trapped water under the floor. Though these boats have fiberglass stringers they can still hold and absorb water in the foam. If the boat has ever had flooding due to rain and leaving the plug in, for example, water can get into the foam that way and basically willnever come out.

Additionally, these boats were made by hand. Even something as fundamental as how centered the engine is in the boat can vary, I've seen some big variances.

We have a 200 as well as a TSC 1, for the TSC I have 50 lbs far to the port side under the spotter seat pretty much all the time.

[swbca]

Check the level of the boat standing still with no occupants or other weight on board. Put the bubble level device on the swim platform avoiding the dashboard or a deck that probably has contours.

[S1Pitts]

@MDB1056 How about some pictures of the spray pockets with the boat on the trailer. If the boat is level on plane and you have that weird spray there has to be something going on with the hull.Last nights ski session we un-leveled my boat (97 BB) and we could not recreate that spay you have going on. Yes it changed some but nowhere near what you have going on there.

[MDB1056]

@jhughes - as noted earlier, no knowledge that the boat has ever been wet nor evidence of wet foam from the inspection earlier this week, as it's dried, well prep'd and in a garage when not in the course . Owner is meticulous. @swbca - will put a level on the platform when next out and get pics. An easy check. @S1Pitts - yes that's the instinctive leaning now - looking at the hull. Will get some additional pics of the hull up close this weekend. Again thanks to all for your input. Will update here as soon as any new information is available.

[Jody_Seal]

@MDB1056ok just a dumb question has the boat been shrink wrapped or anything? no tape or anything stuck on the bottom of the boat?if not again put 40 -60 pounds either under or behind the drivers seat if your going to run with a full boat load..seen it before with that hull..

[Sethro]

Cruise about 20mph with the crew you’re going to be skiing with. Move bodies around, also slide left and right to fine tune, and use extra weight if necessary. When you have an equal wake that’s the weight distribution you need. Swim platform might not be perfectly level either.

[MDB1056]

@Jody_Seal - nope no shrink wrap, tape, etc. Nothing on the bottom . Will hopefully this weekend get another chance for close exam and to move things around in the boat and observe. @Sethro - will play musical chairs with the ski crew and well as runs without to see if we can get more change to hopefully get closer to an answer. More to come.....

[jjackkrash]

In my mind "balanced" means the boat is level at running speed. Add or move weight from side to side until the wake looks even at running speed.

Prop rotation will impact whether the boat is balanced and things like tracking fin alignment can impact balance as well (if the fins are not perfectly aligned they can add lift to one side or the other in some cases) and so can swim platform. So it is not just about raw weight distribution.

[MDB1056]

@jjackkrash - Agreed this can be different things. We're approaching this at least to start with "balanced" meaning we are trying to make sure the raw weight is equally balanced so as not to cause the ride to be out of balance based on the weight distribution. If moving weight around in the boat doesn't alter this or if it's only altered by making extreme shifts then yes it's likely not a raw weight issue (or at least a visible one) , and we start looking at other things including those you've noted. I personally was not there Monday when they looked below deck to see if there could be a foam issue but they said no indication and again to my knowledge the boat has never had a water event as it's exclusively in the course and back in the garage. If we get up close again this weekend I'm going to suggest we again look below deck as well as closely examine the hull, fins, etc. Bottom line I'm sure we all agree there are not that many things that can cause this and hope we can zero in quickly on the cause .

[DW]

@MDB1056 - as noted swim platform may not be level, I would trust gunnels more for a level across them with a measurement down to chime on each side. I also check draft on each side with no load and seated passenger load as a starting point although running attitude is key. If all is same as a good performing boat I would think some hull damage exists.

[Taynton]

could it have been left on the trailer strapped down too tight? i have heard of this warping hulls over time..

[MDB1056]

@Taynton - I doubt it - as it's not strapped . Sits on the trailer with just the bow winch strap for the 3/4 mile trip to and from garage to the course. To your point though we've all seen or read about hulls that have experienced a change over time for various reasons. We were going to ski Sunday but I had to cancel last minute so didn't get a chance for more information or pictures. Hoping maybe for tomorrow again.

[DW]

To the hull warping comment, ski boat hulls are quite flexible. Check your windshield as an example on and off the trailer or lift compared with in the water. You might be surprised at the difference in fit.

[Dacon62]

Anything bent underneath that might make the boat crab a bit?

[MDB1056]

Should have more information tomorrow. Currently scheduled to ski tomorrow afternoon . Owner today was taking the boat to have the hull looked at and I told him I as anxious to hear what he was told. Will also be giving the boat a very up close look underneath as well as a peek below deck as I as not present for that last week. @Dacon62 - nothing is bent underneath, that much we do know . Again this is a very pampered boat that is either in the course or on the trailer in a beautiful huge garage comfortably resting. Only non-ethanol premium is ever burned. Also plan to do some aggressive moving of people around in the boat while in motion to see how much of the excess spray can be reduced and what it takes to do it. Really hoping to post a good update tomorrow night for everyone.

[jjackkrash]

It is tough to know the tracking fins are straight and aligned without a laser and a straight edge and a close inspection. If you are looking at the running surface I'd double confirm the tracking fins.

[MDB1056]

Well the owner took the boat to someone he trusts (a shop) to look at who said the same things many here have pointed to including the possibility of wet foam . In speaking with the owner again yesterday at length, it seems when they had the engine cover off and access panels that nothing was seen, but he says there is no way to look under the main flooring panels on left and right of the engine. They're closed/sealed and that's where the foam is. He did confirm the boat has never been wet (ok yes we all get caught in the occasional rain), and it's in the garage if not in the course. So if those foam compartments are sealed, how would moisture get into them in the first place? He did say they looked very closely at the hull and found no issues that could be seen or felt on inspection, and everything else underneath appears fine . We couldn't do any floating tests with a level yesterday as was too windy but that's next. Boat has PP, but the owner did say he had a speedo that quit working years ago, and he'd disconnected the line from the rear but didn't tie or clamp it off. I could see where an open line could bring water through the tube up into the boat, as I had a bladder go on an original Airguide on mine but that caused a drip at the drivers feet which was quickly traced to the problem. In this case there's been no wet carpeting or any indication of water anywhere forward that I've been told, but again if the foam compartments are closed, how could water get in anyway? Owner is going to pull the rear panel to see if there's any way to get a peek at the side compartments - even if with a a possible bore camera on a flexible line to get a look. Any other suggestions or comments here greatly appreciated. Skiing again this afternoon with it. I will say with the wind yesterday a headwind pass with that additional spray pushed a lot of it back even at longer lines.

[DW]

@MDB1056 - not sure on that boat, many have a removable access port under the drivers seat. Might be one on the observer side seat.

Another test could be to measure the weight on each trailer tire with the front being supported by the tongue with a conscious effort to center the boat and measure it level. Corner weights (motor sports vernacular) are used to understand setup.

[Mastercrafter]

Wet foam or not, balanced and level are not the same. Uneven weight shouldn’t matter as far as spray goes, but being out of level will change spray. I would concentrate on weighting the boat to ride level (at speed), even if that means 300lbs of lead under observers seat with a passenger.

The actual attitude (roll and pitch) of the boat are going to affect spray way more than where the weight actually is

[MDB1056]

We had 150 lbs in the boat yesterday to try and balance and yes side to side and fore and aft are in play to achieve balance. You can do that to mitigate the issue but if I were the owner I'd first be focused on determining what the cause is. I'm not the owner so not my call. The person he too to eval recently is proposing to build up a little on the hull in one place, reduce in other to get it to correct. Again I would first be wanting to determine the cause. Back to the foam question - how could this be wet in these boats if the chambers are sealed?

[Mastercrafter]

Foam can get wet through just about anywhere, any screw going into the floor to hold clips, fuel tank, wiring, engine and trans mounts, bilge pump, upholstery, seat, etc can contribute to water intrusion. I cut up a waterlogged prostar once and around every single hole in the bilge was a wet area.

[DW]

Given a continuous search for the root cause and it sits on a trailer when not in use, has it been across a set of scales (truck scales, etc) to get a sense check on actual boat weight? Takes some diligence to make sure you have no additional ballast (vests, anchors, skis, fuel, etc.) to get a true picture & you need to weigh the trailer separately but may provide some insight.Before you get out the bondo and grinder, has the boat always done this or is it a recent phenomenon?

[CBR51]

Take the screws out of 1 tracking fin to see if any or much water comes out. Lots came out of my 99I ended up taking all 3 fins off for the winter. Worth a try

[MDB1056]

@DW - owner isn’t sure how long it’s been there or developing. I’ve only been skiing the boat regularly the last half of this season. It was first noted to me and my sense is really first noted as significant by the owner just a few weeks ago. I’m in agreement and hoping the owner pursues additional information before getting out the grinder and bondo. Right now moving weights around in the boat . Skiing today it was better .

[Jody_Seal]

dumb question, has anyone that knows what they are looking at straight edged the trailing surfaces of the hull bottom?has anyone that knows what they are looking at inspected the hull bottom for pre release issues?

[Jody_Seal]

dumb question, has anyone that knows what they are looking at straight edged the trailing surfaces of the hull bottom?has anyone that knows what they are looking at inspected the hull bottom for pre release issues?

[Rednucleus]

@Jody_Seal what is "pre release"

[Rednucleus]

@Jody_Seal what is "pre release"

[MDB1056]

@Jody_Seal - owner says shop he took it to review did straight edge the surfaces and closely inspect the bottom. As not my boat I don’t know the shop or persons involved. Personally I’d be looking for a second opinion to confirm as well as edging it myself too. In looking at it after skiing again yesterday, again everything looks fine but that’s just a cursory evaluation. Hard to be too involved when not my boat.

[MDB1056]

@Jody_Seal - owner says shop he took it to review did straight edge the surfaces and closely inspect the bottom. As not my boat I don’t know the shop or persons involved. Personally I’d be looking for a second opinion to confirm as well as edging it myself too. In looking at it after skiing again yesterday, again everything looks fine but that’s just a cursory evaluation. Hard to be too involved when not my boat.

[Drago]

. Hard to be too involved when not my boat.Wait, didn't you start this?Maybe there's incredible rudder load? Would cause the boat to crab, like a tab on a surf boat.

[Drago]

. Hard to be too involved when not my boat.Wait, didn't you start this?Maybe there's incredible rudder load? Would cause the boat to crab, like a tab on a surf boat.

[MDB1056]

@Drago - if there were incredible rudder load wouldn’t that result in strong steering wheel pressure (pull) at speed? This boat doesn’t have any. If I’m wrong on this let me know. Yes I did start this as a favor to the owner who is older, not tech savvy, doesn’t do online, etc. I said I’d put something out here to see what other owners would say that might have also experienced. He is the one though deciding who’s looking at it and what to believe or not and what to do to address. I of course can’t question or challenge any of that as again I have not been involved in any of that nor have any info on the credentials of those sources. My goal has simply been to pass along information gathered here and try to help him crack the code. Again as it’s not my boat my levels of action and involvement are limited. Consider if you were in the same situation please. Again this is simply an effort to help gather and provide information to an older owner who would not have access to it otherwise.

[MDB1056]

@Drago - if there were incredible rudder load wouldn’t that result in strong steering wheel pressure (pull) at speed? This boat doesn’t have any. If I’m wrong on this let me know. Yes I did start this as a favor to the owner who is older, not tech savvy, doesn’t do online, etc. I said I’d put something out here to see what other owners would say that might have also experienced. He is the one though deciding who’s looking at it and what to believe or not and what to do to address. I of course can’t question or challenge any of that as again I have not been involved in any of that nor have any info on the credentials of those sources. My goal has simply been to pass along information gathered here and try to help him crack the code. Again as it’s not my boat my levels of action and involvement are limited. Consider if you were in the same situation please. Again this is simply an effort to help gather and provide information to an older owner who would not have access to it otherwise.

[Drago]

Oh.Yes, you would feel Incredible Rudder Load

[Drago]

Oh.Yes, you would feel Incredible Rudder Load

[Sethro]

You mentioned going out with 150lbs, but didn’t really clarify if you got it leveled (unless I missed it) at speed to where all was good? Every time out will require some maneuvering around of your load to get the boat level, and even changing drivers, unless your load is identical each time. I must be too used to this over the last 30 years skiing with finicky trick skiers….ok, I’m admittedly one myself.

[Sethro]

You mentioned going out with 150lbs, but didn’t really clarify if you got it leveled (unless I missed it) at speed to where all was good? Every time out will require some maneuvering around of your load to get the boat level, and even changing drivers, unless your load is identical each time. I must be too used to this over the last 30 years skiing with finicky trick skiers….ok, I’m admittedly one myself.

[MDB1056]

@Sethro - yes it helped significantly, and yes you’re correct that you’re always moving stuff/people around a bit for the best “balance”. I think he’s planning on keeping the weights in the boat for now while still searching for the core cause. Was informed today he dropped the fins and got 1-2 qts of water which is interesting . Tells me could well be wet elsewhere.

[MDB1056]

@Sethro - yes it helped significantly, and yes you’re correct that you’re always moving stuff/people around a bit for the best “balance”. I think he’s planning on keeping the weights in the boat for now while still searching for the core cause. Was informed today he dropped the fins and got 1-2 qts of water which is interesting . Tells me could well be wet elsewhere.

[Mastercrafter]

Yikes, if he got 1-2 quarts of water from the fins (no foam there) I’ll bet the rest of the boat could be soaked, depending on how it’s constructed, sealed, etc.

Any water that enters the cavity between the hull and deck/bilge can get soaked up by foam and never come back out.

Often times on old boats, if you replace the bilge pump, when the screws are out and the holes are open, you can press on the floor of the bilge and water will squirt out of the holes.